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Subject: "Night" on Requiem?

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The new Vidoc shows some night time gameplay. That's fun and all but how is there a day/night cycle inside a shield world? Day and night are caused by a planet rotating relative to a star. However, in a shield world the "planet" is wrapped around the star making it physically impossible to have a night.

It can't be that the star works like a torchlight or lighthouse only illuminating certain sections at a time since the source of light is inside the sphere. Even if it is only initially pointing in one direction the light would be reflected around off the opposite surfaces nullifying any would-be night effects.

To create a night the star would have to be completely "switched off" so to speak, which causes it's own problems as there would be no reflected light from anywhere and it would be pitch black, which isn't the case based off the footage. Simply dimming the star will reduce the brightness, but this would only change the ambient light, not accurately simulate night.

I feel this is a bit of an oversight on 343i's part. Thoughts?

  • 09.13.2012 6:24 AM PDT
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Friendship Evolved

Cloud cover is one method, albeit it wouldn't be that dark.

The poles of Requiem produce the energy to power a miniature star. Perhaps these shut off after a time and simulate night.

But if that's so, then there wouldn't be a blue-purple hue given off because that often indicates reflected moonlight. It would be pitch black, like the depths of an unlit cave (full of Zubats). Unless of course the Forerunner structures that remain active throughout the "night" give off enough light to give the whole interior an eerie night-time glow.

Good question OP. It made me think.

[Edited on 09.13.2012 6:50 AM PDT]

  • 09.13.2012 6:49 AM PDT

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Posted by: Dark X Halcyon
Cloud cover is one method, albeit it wouldn't be that dark.

Cloud cover does't look anything like night.

The poles of Requiem produce the energy to power a miniature star. Perhaps these shut off after a time and simulate night.

But if that's so, then there wouldn't be a blue-purple hue given off because that often indicates reflected moonlight. It would be pitch black, like the depths of an unlit cave (full of Zubats).

I agree, if the sun was "off" it would be pitch black, not an ambient night-like darkness.

Unless of course the Forerunner structures that remain active throughout the "night" give off enough light to give the whole interior an eerie night-time glow. There'd have to be alot of lights everywhere for that effect to happen. Again I don't think this would realistically look like night.

Good question OP. It made me think.
Good :)

  • 09.13.2012 7:31 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.

Rather then off, the star could go to idle in which it makes very very small amounts of light?

  • 09.13.2012 9:36 AM PDT

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The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

It all depends on how Requiem actually is buildt. The Ark tilted its star, the Halo installations were tilted themselves. Perhaps Requiem uses a Nivenish solution? Honestly though, it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't thought about any of those things, such as a plausible gravitational system and energy lapse. They're probably hiding behind the it's science fiction, dude shield; all gravity is artificial, etc.

Just take a look on what they've already shown, and how they work. Promethian Knights have Rayman style floating limbs, because of no particular reason, everyother structure hovers, without any convincing indication of why, etc.

How does requiem get the energy required to run the entire thing, does it harvest a small moon for helium-3, or a gas giant for.. gas?

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. I hope they've got a couple of creative ideas in there.

[Edited on 09.13.2012 9:52 AM PDT]

  • 09.13.2012 9:40 AM PDT

Wow, I never thought about that... Hopefully 343 will produce a convincing explanation.

  • 09.13.2012 10:50 AM PDT

Wouldn't the Forerunners have built it with the thought of a night time in mind? Like..someone above me said, it would depend on the world is built.

  • 09.13.2012 9:41 PM PDT
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Requiem is looking like a planet within a shell, I think it has its own sun.

  • 09.13.2012 9:44 PM PDT

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

Requim is a normal planet inside a shell, the shell encases the whole planet. With the "roof" of the shell only a few miles above the surface of the planet it is assumed that there is no Sun at all. Instead the planet is lit from machinery in the ceiling of the shell.

Here is a good example

This is all assumption.

[Edited on 09.13.2012 11:01 PM PDT]

  • 09.13.2012 10:58 PM PDT

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Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
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Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!

A race that can create mega-structures like the Ark, and Dyson spheres probably figured how to get day/night cycles to work.

Granted, I always wondered how it worked on Halos. Wouldn't night last only a few hours?

  • 09.14.2012 12:00 AM PDT

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Posted by: ferrrari
Rather then off, the star could go to idle in which it makes very very small amounts of light?

I already addressed the "dimmer switch" idea. It wouldn't make an accurate night, more a duller daytime. Think of how it works in real life. you don't dim the lights in a room and think "wow, looks just like it's night time".

Posted by: Sigma617


Posted by: the real Janaka

I know it's all down to how it's built but I was under the impression that Shield worlds were built with the "ground" on the inside of the sphere, like Halo but in 360 degrees, with the star floating where a planet's core would be, right in the center.

On the power note, maybe Requiem uses solar power seeing as if I'm right about the structure the sun should always be up.

Posted by: Cpt Nicholson
Requim is a normal planet inside a shell, the shell encases the whole planet. With the "roof" of the shell only a few miles above the surface of the planet it is assumed that there is no Sun at all. Instead the planet is lit from machinery in the ceiling of the shell.

Here is a good example

This is all assumption.

Based on Trevelyan and the Halo Wars Shield world, these structures are as I explained above with the interior surface being the ground and the start as the core. I see no reason to think Requiem would be any different. The example you gave seems like one specific location with a sky structure, like the Ship Storage in Halo Wars. If you watch the E3 gameplay again you can see that there is a sky, not a "roof".

Posted by: GhostLink2401
A race that can create mega-structures like the Ark, and Dyson spheres probably figured how to get day/night cycles to work.

Granted, I always wondered how it worked on Halos. Wouldn't night last only a few hours?

That's the "it's science fiction" excuse. but the best science fiction has a basis in real world science, or the very least logical fiction. The "space magic" reasoning is a cover for bad writing.

  • 09.14.2012 1:35 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

But Requiem isn't a shield world isn't it?

It's something else, something we haven't seen before.

  • 09.14.2012 3:53 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: HipiO7
But Requiem isn't a shield world isn't it?

It's something else, something we haven't seen before.

Game Informer confirmed it as a shield world.

[Edited on 09.14.2012 4:08 AM PDT]

  • 09.14.2012 4:07 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: HipiO7
But Requiem isn't a shield world isn't it?

It's something else, something we haven't seen before.

Game Informer confirmed it as a shield world.


It's a variation of a shield world. It's not like the one from GoO.

One of the multiplayer maps, I believe to be Haven, is a solar generator facility which produces sunlight for whatever lives on Requiem. I imagine, as you said, it can be powered down and even altered to display moonlight during the night cycle/phase.

Anyways, yes, I agree with what you proposed.

  • 09.14.2012 4:29 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Nevermind, the structure of Requiem is different from standard Shield Worlds.

  • 09.14.2012 4:55 AM PDT
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Possibly a super metal alloy semi circle that rotates around the sun?

We haven't actually seen a screenshot of Requiem's sun, as far as I'm aware.

  • 09.14.2012 10:13 AM PDT

Glory and fame, blood is our name!
Souls full of thunder, hearts of steel!
Killers of men, a warrior's friend!
Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
Sons of the gods, today we shall die.
Open Valhalla's door!
Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!


Posted by: Timmie
Possibly a super metal alloy semi circle that rotates around the sun?

We haven't actually seen a screenshot of Requiem's sun, as far as I'm aware.


We saw a star crest over Requiem's shell's horizon in the Halo 3 Legendary ending. But other than that, no, no stars shining on terra firma.

  • 09.14.2012 11:45 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Apparently it's still a shield world, but it's not a Micro Dyson Sphere which would surround a whole sun.

Requiem is a shell that surrounds an entire planet, and the sun is 100% artificial and sustained by the construction around it.

  • 09.14.2012 11:45 AM PDT
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Artificial night and day? The Halos had them.

  • 09.14.2012 4:39 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

I decided to make a thoughrougher analysis on the subject.

NOTE: WHAT HALO AS A FICTION DOES NOT DEFINE, I TRY TO THEORISE ABOUT, so don't take everything as a fact.

Lets star off with the ringworlds, in this case Installation 04:Day/night cycle: The installation is tilted so that only half of its inner surface--the far side--is exposed to the planetary systems star. Rotation speed determins cycle time. If the installtion orbits its gas giant, it would end up being eclipsed (how long is determined by the speed it travels). A lot of light will be reflected from the bright side to the dark (constant full moon).

Energy: It harvests gas from the gas giant it orbits/stays near via satelite installations.

Gravitation: Since the installation spins, objects within are pushed outwards. This is called a centripetal force.

Atmosphere/how it keeps it: The ringworld maintains its atmosphere partially because of the centripertal force; a wall of hard light at the edge of the ring helps to keep it in (trying to find picture of this). Paint infographic for Ringworld

Installation 00 aka The Ark:Energy: A possible theory is that it harvests its captured planetoid for helium-3 or something. The Forerunners seem to rely heavily on gas.

Day and night cycle: The Ark has got an artificial sun that is surrounded by what seems to be some kind of parabolic mirroring device. My theory is, that since it has to rotate anyway, in order to maintain its centripetal based gravitational pull, the installation will only be partially lit.

Gravity: Since it is not thick enough to accuire a genuin gravity, it relies on a centripetal force to do the job. It would be similar to spinning a bowl of water; the liquid is pressed out on the sides. The this method does not allow for any gravitation in the center, but since there's a hole there anyway, that doesn't matter.

Atmosphere: There are a lot o blue lights on its corners, I assume these project hard light (trying to fid an image).

Paint infographic for The Ark

Micro Dyson Sphere, in this case the one withinOnyx:Day/night cycle: The installation has got a sun that's slightly smaller than Sol. This is possible since the MSD is freaking huge (150x10^6km diameter). How and if it recreates a day/night cycle is unknown. But Halsey and entourage did wander around for days, but nothing about night is mentioned (Ghosts of Onyx).
A possible solution would be something similar to this: Larry Niven's Ringworld.

Gravity: The most plausible theory is that it has enough mass to maintain a genuin gravity. If it is aided by a centripetal force, the gravity at the poles is most likely lower. Atmosphere: It's a en enclosed area.

Energy: The sphere is essentially a huge greenhouse; the more the sun radiates, the warmer it becomes, converting and redistrubuting that energy would be the most logical way of going about. Paint infographic for Onyx MDS

Requiem:Day/night cycle: We have not yet seen a sun - a singular device, nor anything capable of lighting vast areas, but neither did we within Installation 04 (Control Room Canyon). So it is safe to say that it might solv lighting the same way as there, however that was done... There are clear shadows though, so it is likely that there is a dominating source of light, or is the graphics engine to blame for that (meta problem).

Gravity: Now this is where it becomes truely annoying...
Requiem is supposed to be even bigger than the Onyx MDS! This means that there is a possibility for genuin gravity. However, there is just as much mass above as there is bellow. Presumably, it is impossible to know right now, but I'll speculate anyway (ties into energy).

Energy: If Requiem is indeed a onion of a dyson sphere (muliple layers), there could very well be a star at the center. If there is, the gravitation would always be superior inward. Paint infographic for Requiem
Finishing words:Why is day/night cycle important, I hear you say, Forerunners don't even sleep? Well, I'd say that there are several reasons for why it might be practical. The strongest reason however, has be that most Forerunner installations are buildt to house the species that they collect, day and night would allow this flora and fauna (and James Mason knows what else) to live in a way that is familiar to them. Another reason is that nature needs a cooldown period, it would get rather hot if it didn't flux. Weather is also determined by a fluxuating temperature.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong about something, but keep it clean :P

[Edited on 09.14.2012 5:32 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2012 5:19 PM PDT

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

All shield worlds we have encountered have been different, who says the lighting technique has to be a sun? The height or distance of a ceiling could differ from spot to spot, explaining why in some sections there are structures reaching down from the sky and others, there are not. If you click the link and scroll down to the writing below the picture I linked. It even says objects hanging from the ceiling.

Also, on Halopedia, it even describes how lighting comes from machinery in the ceiling.

[Edited on 09.14.2012 7:26 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2012 7:23 PM PDT
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Wall at the edge of the ring

  • 09.14.2012 9:52 PM PDT

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Thanks for the input, but I got my answer already. Like I said:
Posted by: switch 104 sv
Nevermind, the structure of Requiem is different from standard Shield Worlds.

  • 09.15.2012 3:37 AM PDT

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