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Subject: Halo Reach is more CANON than the novel "the fall of reach"

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Seriously if anything the novels are inaccurate and non canon. Not the game.

The novels are just for cash. The games are were true and canon is.In fact they are the highest tier.

Problem fanboys?

Source: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33630397


http://nathanpgibson.com/guide-to-canon-in-the-halo-universe/

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_Nation:Canon_Policy


[Edited on 09.19.2012 9:05 AM PDT]

  • 09.19.2012 9:00 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

trololololol

Well done for posting 3 links to 3 sources showing the exact same thing...

I find your logic for the novels being made purely for cash hard to grasp, since the games sell more than the books and the books are made to EXPAND THE LORE.

Congratulations on promoting bad writing though, OP. Really, well done dear!

  • 09.19.2012 9:15 AM PDT
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You seem desperate; the last source is far from credible. Try Halopedian.

Anyways, I think Bungie were going at it wrong. Look at what they did to the AR and magnum in Halo 3!

[Edited on 09.19.2012 9:18 AM PDT]

  • 09.19.2012 9:18 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Games>All for canon. This has always been known.

However, gameplay is not canon, this as well has been known.

So:

Fall of Reach - Every bit which is not contradicted by Halo: Reach remains canon, which means many dates and inconsistencies are noncanon. Total canonicity around 75% as the lowest estimate possible accounting for every minute detail which could be invalidated by Halo: Reach.

Halo: Reach campaign - About an hour of cutscenes out of a five to six hour campaign, since actual gameplay is noncanon. Total canonicity around 17%.

FoR = 75% total canon
Halo Reach = 17% total canon

Halo Reach is more CANON than the novel "the fall of reach" The numbers say otherwise.

  • 09.19.2012 10:06 AM PDT

OP....you fail at trolling.

Books and games are equal in terms of canon. Only when 2 cover the exact same thing do games become more important.

And guess what: FoR and Reach don't cover the exact same things.

FoR only covers 1-2 hours of the battle in space.
Reach covers the ground ops in the form of an interactive recreation based upon whatever footage and intel was found many, many, years after the actual events.

Ergo: They don't conflict but supplement each other mostly. And when they do conflict on some of the parts, that can be attributed to the interpretative nature of the game.

  • 09.19.2012 10:16 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Wow, this outbreak was controled and contained very efficiently, good job guys! ...

  • 09.19.2012 11:05 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Canon wars!

The ongoing fight for Halo's expanding universe.

The epic saga continues. Who will come out on top? We let the public decide!

Coming to a Bungie Universe thread near you.

  • 09.19.2012 3:26 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

The games overpower the books in terms of canon. If something in the books contradicts something in the games, what's shown in the games is what's true.

Period.

  • 09.19.2012 7:11 PM PDT

Many gave their lives so that we could live on. I intend to honor them by remembering them. Remember Cyborg. Remember John. Remember Noble.

I thought this was obvious

  • 09.20.2012 12:57 AM PDT

Scandinavian Master Race!

Mfw

  • 09.20.2012 3:59 AM PDT
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Don't send me group invites unless i know you. pl0x.


Posted by: the real Janaka
Wow, this outbreak was controled and contained very efficiently, good job guys! ...


Guilty Spark would be proud.

  • 09.20.2012 4:45 AM PDT

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"

The Fall of Reach storyline is better than the Halo: Reach storyline. Therefore, for me, it is more canon. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks.

  • 09.20.2012 5:38 AM PDT

<(-_-)> Teh mokey is not amused

I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.

  • 09.20.2012 5:52 AM PDT

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"


Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.


There are only so many enemies a spartan can kill. The best defended UNSC world was also attacked by the largest and most powerful covenant fleet ever seen. The only reason Reach fell was becuase of an overwhelming amount of enemy forces. And is Halo Reach any better in that department? We see, what, 3 ships defending Reach when the covenant attacks with a supercarrier? At least The Fall of Reach makes sense.

  • 09.20.2012 6:01 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: MongotheRed

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.


There are only so many enemies a spartan can kill. The best defended UNSC world was also attacked by the largest and most powerful covenant fleet ever seen. The only reason Reach fell was becuase of an overwhelming amount of enemy forces. And is Halo Reach any better in that department? We see, what, 3 ships defending Reach when the covenant attacks with a supercarrier? At least The Fall of Reach makes sense.

Where was Reach's massive military might in the book? Where are the +10000 aircraft, +50000, and millions of soldiers? Are you telling me that not a single base on the planet Reach could muster any sort of defense against an AA attack? Are you telling me that thousands of drop ships that had never visited the planet before could suddenly travel halfway across the globe, identity every military target and destroy them, all in less than 2 hours?

  • 09.20.2012 12:36 PM PDT

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: MongotheRed

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.


There are only so many enemies a spartan can kill. The best defended UNSC world was also attacked by the largest and most powerful covenant fleet ever seen. The only reason Reach fell was becuase of an overwhelming amount of enemy forces. And is Halo Reach any better in that department? We see, what, 3 ships defending Reach when the covenant attacks with a supercarrier? At least The Fall of Reach makes sense.

Where was Reach's massive military might in the book? Where are the +10000 aircraft, +50000, and millions of soldiers? Are you telling me that not a single base on the planet Reach could muster any sort of defense against an AA attack? Are you telling me that thousands of drop ships that had never visited the planet before could suddenly travel halfway across the globe, identity every military target and destroy them, all in less than 2 hours?


Like I said, it was the LARGEST COVENANT FLEET EVER SEEN! Sheer numbers would do it. They would have had enough GRUNTS to take over Reach by themselves. There would just be too many for the marines to do anything. Plus the defense was put under command of a naval admiral, so they wouldn't have been that efficient.

  • 09.20.2012 1:31 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: MongotheRed
Posted by: SubtleSpartan


Gah, guys, both Reach and TFoR failed to convinsingly convay the Battle and Fall of Reach, can you at least agree on that?
Which btw is not the point. It does not matter whether one of them is more convincing than the other, the book came first (FIRST!), it established canon, canon that grew profoundly into the minds of its fans for eight-nine years. The game breaks a lot in said canon, and can therefore not be taken seriously. The only way Reach can be taken into concederation is if Bungie (not 343i) openly states that it is a reimagination that describes what actually happened.

So if you want to discuss which of the alternatives is the better one, fine, but that is not the point of this thread (not that I'm particularly good att staying on topic either...).

[Edited on 09.20.2012 1:53 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2012 1:51 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.


Posted by: the real Janaka
The book came first (FIRST!), it established canon, canon that grew profoundly into the minds of its fans for eight-nine years.


THANK YOU. I feel as though this is the truest statement to date on the Universe forum about FoR that everybody on this site forgets about or does not even consider.

I share this exact sentiment, it only took a year for someone to call this out. Thank you for saying the words I didn't post.

I partly think the reason why, is because we have a lot of newer members who read the Halo lore recently. They don't understand the time constraints Nylund had to go through with Halo:FoR. The unexpected success that it would be. How it came out 10 years ago! When he was writing FoR the FIRST Halo game hadn't even been out yet! How he only had a few weeks and how little Bungie's overall Halo Bible had been established at that point. Who knew for sure Halo would be Microsoft's flagship game in 2001? All of this etc.

I'll be honest. I don't take people seriously in Bungie Universe on the topic of TFoR because of this exact reason. They just don't understand. You're the first out of the entirety of this site that I've read that has pointed something as simple as this out. But it rings truer when you consider this is 10 Years of established canon and if you followed it year by year and it has been solid. Only for the game to come out which we thought was actually fan service, to destroy the fans completely on just pure potential to what it could have been.

So again thank you. I read a few similar threads which touch upon this. But no-one has actually acknowledged this exact notion.

[Edited on 09.20.2012 3:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2012 3:30 PM PDT

1/10

I'm afraid you fail at trolling, good sir. Next time add kittens to your post, everyone loves kittens!

  • 09.20.2012 7:05 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Reach takes precedent over TFOR. The Halo game series is the main source of story of the Halo Franchise, and the games are the medium through which the vast majority of people who view the series, view the series. So why divert to a book written by somebody when Bungie is clearly the overruling authority on all things Halo canon. It doesn't matter if they OK'd the book; they made the game and thus made irrelevant anything that happens in the book that conflicts with the game.

TL;DR: More people played the game than read the book.

Needs/many > Needs/few

  • 09.20.2012 7:21 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ninjakenzen
Reach takes precedent over TFOR. The Halo game series is the main source of story of the Halo Franchise, and the games are the medium through which the vast majority of people who view the series, view the series. So why divert to a book written by somebody when Bungie is clearly the overruling authority on all things Halo canon. It doesn't matter if they OK'd the book; they made the game and thus made irrelevant anything that happens in the book that conflicts with the game.

TL;DR: More people played the game than read the book.

Needs/many > Needs/few
Bungie is responsible for the Halo Story Bible. Nylund used that information to write the novel, why is it so hard to understand?

Here are two common misconceptions from... exceptional Bungie fans (fanboys):

1. Nylund wrote the novel from scratch, which is wrong, because, again, Bungie gave him the Halo Story Bible. All the major events from the novel (including the fact that Reach fell in a single day) are in the Halo Story Bible. Nylund has confirmed in the past that he was given the Halo Story Bible, and once the novel was finished, they took it away from him.

Now, here's my favorite counter: "You haven't read the Halo Story Bible! What if the events from the game were also written in the novel?". Oh, yes... did I mention that M. Night Shyamalan was a former Bungie employee, because that's quite a plot twist! No, but seriously, why would Nylund ignore such an important detail? Easy answer, he didn't.

2. This one is pretty laughable, but here goes, some fans think that TFoR should be ignored because the battle sucks. I'm not kidding about this, some fans think that Nylund described the battle so horribly, it should be ignored, completely ignoring the message, just like Traviss. Reach was meant to fall in a day, period. What's so hard to understand? Reach, the heart of the UNSC fell in a single day. But I guess the fans prefer a game about 5 Spartan-III soldiers who suffer from brain asphyxia because the battle lasts longer. Brilliant, just the kind of fans I want to hang with!

So if anyone really enjoys Halo: Reach, he/she probably loved Glasslands, because it's the same thing!

[Edited on 09.20.2012 8:07 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2012 7:36 PM PDT

Key

I don't care if he used Bungie's information to write the Novel. Bungie has the ability and creative right to rewrite their canon. Therefore the game is more correct than the book. Period.

I don't care if the book has a cult following who got butthurt when Reach came out. Bungie's games take precedent over novelizations that next to nobody read (relatively).

  • 09.20.2012 8:30 PM PDT

Posted by: ninjakenzen

THANK YOU. I feel as though this is the truest statement to date on the Universe forum about FoR that everybody on this site forgets about or does not even consider.

I share this exact sentiment, it only took a year for someone to call this out. Thank you for saying the words I didn't post.

I partly think the reason why, is because we have a lot of newer members who read the Halo lore recently. They don't understand the time constraints Nylund had to go through with Halo:FoR. The unexpected success that it would be. How it came out 10 years ago! When he was writing FoR the FIRST Halo game hadn't even been out yet! How he only had a few weeks and how little Bungie's overall Halo Bible had been established at that point. Who knew for sure Halo would be Microsoft's flagship game in 2001? All of this etc.

I'll be honest. I don't take people seriously in Bungie Universe on the topic of TFoR because of this exact reason. They just don't understand. You're the first out of the entirety of this site that I've read that has pointed something as simple as this out. But it rings truer when you consider this is 10 Years of established canon and if you followed it year by year and it has been solid. Only for the game to come out which we thought was actually fan service, to destroy the fans completely on just pure potential to what it could have been.

So again thank you. I read a few similar threads which touch upon this. But no-one has actually acknowledged this exact notion.


All of those reasons you just listed are exactly why holding TFoR up to such high standards and proclaiming it as god is pretty damn flawed. Because it's ten years old and wasn't written with a big huge expansive universe in mind, some things are going to have to change for the good of the overall story of the series...like the UNSC only fighting and encountering Grunts and Jackals for 25 years, or the UNSC being actually made competent and their military stronghold what you would actually expect of such a place. Writing a series like you expect it to be a hit and there to be more (that doesn't mean leaving loose ends, but it means leaving things more open and expansive in regards to setting, background, and such stuff like the Battle of Reach) is the way any story should be done...case in point being Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, there is so much mentioned in that movie leaving room for sequels or even the prequels, yet it was easily a stand-alone story, and that's the way any new series should be approached. Which Nylund really didn't do with TFoR...yet Bungie did with Combat Evolved.

Posted by: MongotheRed
Like I said, it was the LARGEST COVENANT FLEET EVER SEEN! Sheer numbers would do it. They would have had enough GRUNTS to take over Reach by themselves. There would just be too many for the marines to do anything. Plus the defense was put under command of a naval admiral, so they wouldn't have been that efficient.


...and yet half of it got wiped out before the battle even really started, leaving the number of ships fighting each other roughly even, and then there are all of the UNSC's orbital defenses and most especially the SMACs. 314 ships, even if it is the biggest collection of Covenant ships the UNSC has ever seen does not mean the Covenant are going to instantly overrun the stronghold of humanity, especially not when, as I already said, half of their fleet is wiped out before they can even engage the UNSC. And hundreds of dropships (not thousands, not millions, just plain old thousands) all splitting up for their various targets, are hardly going to overrun the defenses of those places. They're all military bases that would have fairly large numbers of troops either directly on site or nearby, armor divisions, anti-air units and turrets/defenses...hundreds of dropships are just simply not going to cut it. The account given in the book taken all on its own is retarded in the extreme.

Posted by: the real Janaka
Gah, guys, both Reach and TFoR failed to convinsingly convay the Battle and Fall of Reach, can you at least agree on that?
Which btw is not the point. It does not matter whether one of them is more convincing than the other, the book came first (FIRST!), it established canon, canon that grew profoundly into the minds of its fans for eight-nine years. The game breaks a lot in said canon, and can therefore not be taken seriously. The only way Reach can be taken into concederation is if Bungie (not 343i) openly states that it is a reimagination that describes what actually happened.

So if you want to discuss which of the alternatives is the better one, fine, but that is not the point of this thread (not that I'm particularly good att staying on topic either...).


I can sort of agree with that, I don't think either one is perfect on its own with depicting the battle...though I'd take Reach by itself any day over TFoR. In any case, they're not meant to be taken on their own, they work together, with Reach being factored into the picture, TFoR makes sense and doesn't suck at all with its depiction, the planet had already been at war for a couple weeks, which explains why the Covenant instantly know where to go (because the troops all ready there would have informed them) and why they would be able to overrun them easily (because there are already Covenant forces there and fighting). And with TFoR, you get a bigger picture of what was going on over the whole planet Reach and not just Noble's piece of the picture.

It doesn't matter at all whether the book came first, all of the books are based on the games, and unless one of the writers for the games (like Joe Staten did with Contact Harvest) comes along and puts out their own book(s) based in the series, the games always take precedence over anything else that's only authorized by the main company which in the past would be Bungie and is now 343i. Anything directly created by the people who craft the stories for the games and the overall universe and plot the direction the story is going takes precedence and authority over anything else. And no, the game never broke any canon at all.

  • 09.20.2012 9:32 PM PDT

the best part of making threads like this in the universe forum is laughing at the people who burn half an hour writing carefully thought out idiot-posts.

[Edited on 09.20.2012 9:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2012 9:37 PM PDT
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Bungie is no longer managing the Halo Universe. While our Halo-related forums and stats remain available, be advised that "official" answers and support about the Halo Universe (past, present, or future) are not.
[URL="http://www.alladsclassified.com/"]Top Ten Classified website[/URL]

  • 09.21.2012 12:40 AM PDT

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