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Subject: Halo Reach is more CANON than the novel "the fall of reach"

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: MongotheRed
Like I said, it was the LARGEST COVENANT FLEET EVER SEEN! Sheer numbers would do it. They would have had enough GRUNTS to take over Reach by themselves. There would just be too many for the marines to do anything. Plus the defense was put under command of a naval admiral, so they wouldn't have been that efficient.


...and yet half of it got wiped out before the battle even really started, leaving the number of ships fighting each other roughly even, and then there are all of the UNSC's orbital defenses and most especially the SMACs. 314 ships, even if it is the biggest collection of Covenant ships the UNSC has ever seen does not mean the Covenant are going to instantly overrun the stronghold of humanity, especially not when, as I already said, half of their fleet is wiped out before they can even engage the UNSC. And hundreds of dropships (not thousands, not millions, just plain old thousands) all splitting up for their various targets, are hardly going to overrun the defenses of those places. They're all military bases that would have fairly large numbers of troops either directly on site or nearby, armor divisions, anti-air units and turrets/defenses...hundreds of dropships are just simply not going to cut it. The account given in the book taken all on its own is retarded in the extreme.



The coveant had much more than the UNSC during the space battle. It usually only takes a dozen or less covenant ships to take over a planet, even if the UNSC have more than the Covenant in terms of ships. And those hundreds of drop ships didn't have to take over the whole planet, they only had to destroy key points. And hundreds of dropships can transfer into thousands of soldiers, if not hundreds of thousands. Plus, the covenant had that one ship that could sniper out the UNSC ships and even took down at least one SuperMAC. It doesn't matter that half the covenant fleet was immediatly wiped out, becuase they still had a whole lot more than the UNSC fleet. It was just a case of superior numbers and technology.

[Edited on 09.21.2012 6:25 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2012 6:24 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55


None of you still get it.

It's not about quality of canon/ hierarchy.

It's about the fanbase.

I'm well aware that Reach overtakes FoR canonically and it might even mix in. And that some bits of Reach is portrayed better than ToR and vice versa.

But NONE of you except the guy the real Janaka understand what he posted. Still. It's evident in ALL of the responses I got back.

It's actually quite funny to watch each response just proving what I'm talking about when they have NO IDEA what I'm talking about. Apart from Janaka. Juan Teran has a solid perception of how it works and Petarded to a large extent is right. I'm an idiot as well for getting this far.


Posted by: OrderedComa
All of those reasons you just listed are exactly why holding TFoR up to such high standards and proclaiming it as god is pretty damn flawed.

No, the way it was being scrutinized word for word like it's the Bible and the atmosphere surrounding the novels release. That wasn't why I listed the situational factors. Although I am aware of the flaws. But that is not what it was about. You don't get it.

[Edited on 09.21.2012 8:29 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2012 8:03 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.


Posted by: ninjakenzenI should be the one thanking you! :)Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I don't care if he used Bungie's information to write the Novel. Bungie has the ability and creative right to rewrite their canon. Therefore the game is more correct than the book. Period.

I don't care if the book has a cult following who got butthurt when Reach came out. Bungie's games take precedent over novelizations that next to nobody read (relatively).
I hope that sooner or later you'll really fall hard in love with a part of a fiction or whatever, only to have it reimagined and rendered false after a couple of years. Then perhaps you'll understand.Posted by: OrderedComa
And no, the game never broke any canon at all.
Ok.. Could you please descibe to me step by step how the Covenant invaded Reach, according to TFoR?
And why Nylund didn't so much as mention the Piller of Autumn going down to the surface to grab a fragment of Cortana (surely a Latchkey descovery is important enough to mention), etc?

[Edited on 09.21.2012 9:36 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2012 9:33 AM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I don't care if he used Bungie's information to write the Novel. Bungie has the ability and creative right to rewrite their canon. Therefore the game is more correct than the book. Period.

I don't care if the book has a cult following who got butthurt when Reach came out. Bungie's games take precedent over novelizations that next to nobody read (relatively).
... charming.

I just love when the fans take the bullet for Bungie. "They made the game, it's their story", when that doesn't really matters. It's the fact that Bungie disrespected the fans by writing a new story over already established material. The worst part is that this new story is garbage when compared to Nylund's novel. Putting aside the quality in the story (it worked guys! 100 chimpanzees were able to write a complete story!!!), Bungie just said "-blam!- it, let's make a new story", knowing TFoR already existed, and it was the foundation for the Universe they made.

So much for that speech Bungie gave last year, huh? You know, that when where they said that the Halo Universe belonged to "the fans".

So much outrage for a novel that "no one" read, eh buddy?

[Edited on 09.21.2012 4:55 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2012 4:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Juan Teran

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I don't care if he used Bungie's information to write the Novel. Bungie has the ability and creative right to rewrite their canon. Therefore the game is more correct than the book. Period.

I don't care if the book has a cult following who got butthurt when Reach came out. Bungie's games take precedent over novelizations that next to nobody read (relatively).
... charming.

I just love when the fans take the bullet for Bungie. "They made the game, it's their story", when that doesn't really matters. It's the fact that Bungie disrespected the fans by writing a new story over already established material. The worst part is that this new story is garbage when compared to Nylund's novel. Putting aside the quality in the story (it worked guys! 100 chimpanzees were able to write a complete story!!!), Bungie just said "-blam!- it, let's make a new story", knowing TFoR already existed, and it was the foundation for the Universe they made.

So much for that speech Bungie gave last year, huh? You know, that when where they said that the Halo Universe belonged to "the fans".

So much outrage for a novel that "no one" read, eh buddy?


WAHAHAHAHBAHAHAHAHA XD oh, gosh, hahehuha, don't make me laugh. The "battle" for Reach in TFoR was one of the most retarded things I have ever read and felt like a contrived plot device rather than an actual realistic account to me. 314 Covenant ships appear near Reach, and half the fleet is almost instantly wiped out by a barrage from the SMAC canons and the 150+ ship UNSC fleet as they blundered into a mine-field. So it's 150+ ships vs 150+ ships...and that's not factoring the 20 SMACs in on the UNSC which would easily count for three ships each because they knock out Covenant ships in one shot and said shots can easily and often do take down more than one at once, so in terms of military strength that gives the UNSC about the equivalent of 210 ships against the Covenant's 150. Plus Nylund just randomly wrote 70+ UNSC ships out of existence during the battle with no explanation or reasoning whatsoever, he gave a blow-for-blow description and listed how many casualties were taken out on either side with each exchange...and then 70+ ships for the UNSC just suddenly aren't there anymore and never existed.

And in addition, despite never having been to Reach before or know anything about it, the Covenant instantly know where all of the most important locations on the planet are and despite their numbers of dropships making it safely down onto the planet only numbering in the hundreds and then heading down to the planet on the poles and having to split up to reach all of their various targets, instantaneously reach them and they're all overrun in less than an hour...which especially doesn't make sense when Nylund had made it quite clear before that the UNSC completely kicks the Covenant's ass and rapes them in groundside battles. And then you have the places such as High Command, the Generator Complex, and the main armory for the whole planet, possibly the whole military arm of the UNSC ...which being places of great military importance and also being vitally important to the planet and military as a whole would be actual military bases and as such would have actual permanent defenses military bases in and around them and everything that that entails. There would be armor divisions, large garrisons of troops, airfields, anti-air units and defense, and defensive structures and things such as both anti-personnel and anti-armor turrets...which a measly "hundreds of dropships" would have a snowball's chance in hell of being able to overrun the way they did in the book, especially with all of them splitting up, even if it was 999 dropships (the max that "hundreds" could be) with 333 each going to take on the individual targets they wouldn't be able to instantly overrun them or even know where they are. And even if they did already know where they were, it would take Spirits and Phantoms hours to reach their destinations from the north and south poles of the planet...all of that time they would be being hounded by Reach's 11,050 air assets the whole time further whittling down their numbers before they reached their individual destinations. The account in TFoR only makes sense when blended with Reach, the two were designed to be one whole, on its own neither story is perfect (most definitely not TFoR, even if doesn't make complete sense, Reach can actually at least stand on its own), but together...that is the way they were meant to be. And no, TFoR was not any kind of foundation for the series, that would be Halo: Combat Evolved, you know the first game, the stuff that everything else rose out of, the founder of the series? TFoR may have added a little more to what was already started, but it is is not the foundation of the story. The games are what came first and started the whole series, they are the foundation from which the rest of the story is built off of.

Bungie is responsible for the Halo Story Bible. Nylund used that information to write the novel, why is it so hard to understand?

Here are two common misconceptions from... exceptional Bungie fans (fanboys):

1. Nylund wrote the novel from scratch, which is wrong, because, again, Bungie gave him the Halo Story Bible. All the major events from the novel (including the fact that Reach fell in a single day) are in the Halo Story Bible. Nylund has confirmed in the past that he was given the Halo Story Bible, and once the novel was finished, they took it away from him.

Now, here's my favorite counter: "You haven't read the Halo Story Bible! What if the events from the game were also written in the novel?". Oh, yes... did I mention that M. Night Shyamalan was a former Bungie employee, because that's quite a plot twist! No, but seriously, why would Nylund ignore such an important detail? Easy answer, he didn't.

2. This one is pretty laughable, but here goes, some fans think that TFoR should be ignored because the battle sucks. I'm not kidding about this, some fans think that Nylund described the battle so horribly, it should be ignored, completely ignoring the message, just like Traviss. Reach was meant to fall in a day, period. What's so hard to understand? Reach, the heart of the UNSC fell in a single day. But I guess the fans prefer a game about 5 Spartan-III soldiers who suffer from brain asphyxia because the battle lasts longer. Brilliant, just the kind of fans I want to hang with!

So if anyone really enjoys Halo: Reach, he/she probably loved Glasslands, because it's the same thing!


Who ever said anything about him writing the novel from scratch? That is irrelevant to this conversation. And how do you know that, hmmm? How do you know it says Reach fell in a laughable under 60 minute time period? For all you know it could say nothing but "August 30th: Reach falls to the Covenant in the early hours of the morning"...you make awfully big claims for something none of us know a thing about. The Halo Bible is non-evidence for either side, no one save a select few within Bungie, and now 343i, have seen the whole thing, and none of the fans have ever seen any of it, neither you nor me can argue as to what it does or does not contain or does or does not say...that is all I will say on that subject. You can't use it as evidence for anything, and neither can I.

And it has also been said (whether it was by Bungie or Nylynd I don't fully remember, though I do believe it was Bungie) that Nylund and Bungie have had rather differing visions on the portrayal and/or content within his books. So just because Nylund threw it in there does not necessarily mean that it's something Bungie told him to put in or Bungie has as information within the Halo Bible.

2. I've never said anything about TFoR being ignored because the battle sucks. All I have ever said on the matter is that the battle sucked bit fat hairy Brute balls and needed improvement...which is not saying it should be ignored or scrapped. There is no "SHOULD beyond what the current writers of the Halo story and highest authority want and think is best for the story. Reach is meant to last as long as Bungie (now 343i) sees fit, and obviously they think having a longer battle tells a better story than a measly -blam!- hour! I never felt anything for Nylund's portrayal of the battle except the urge to laugh my ass off at it. Get off your high-horse, you sure are awfully presumptuous and arrogant assuming you know what every fan wants, likes, or believes. I did not enjoy Glasslands, I however don't rage or -blam!- about it being or not being canon, it is canon...whether it is something I like or not, and unless 343i changes their minds on it, its canon status won't change. Other than not liking some of the details or Traviss interpretation of some aspects of Halo lore...I thought it was rather well written.

  • 09.21.2012 10:52 PM PDT


Posted by: MongotheRed

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: MongotheRed
Like I said, it was the LARGEST COVENANT FLEET EVER SEEN! Sheer numbers would do it. They would have had enough GRUNTS to take over Reach by themselves. There would just be too many for the marines to do anything. Plus the defense was put under command of a naval admiral, so they wouldn't have been that efficient.


...and yet half of it got wiped out before the battle even really started, leaving the number of ships fighting each other roughly even, and then there are all of the UNSC's orbital defenses and most especially the SMACs. 314 ships, even if it is the biggest collection of Covenant ships the UNSC has ever seen does not mean the Covenant are going to instantly overrun the stronghold of humanity, especially not when, as I already said, half of their fleet is wiped out before they can even engage the UNSC. And hundreds of dropships (not thousands, not millions, just plain old thousands) all splitting up for their various targets, are hardly going to overrun the defenses of those places. They're all military bases that would have fairly large numbers of troops either directly on site or nearby, armor divisions, anti-air units and turrets/defenses...hundreds of dropships are just simply not going to cut it. The account given in the book taken all on its own is retarded in the extreme.



The coveant had much more than the UNSC during the space battle. It usually only takes a dozen or less covenant ships to take over a planet, even if the UNSC have more than the Covenant in terms of ships. And those hundreds of drop ships didn't have to take over the whole planet, they only had to destroy key points. And hundreds of dropships can transfer into thousands of soldiers, if not hundreds of thousands. Plus, the covenant had that one ship that could sniper out the UNSC ships and even took down at least one SuperMAC. It doesn't matter that half the covenant fleet was immediatly wiped out, becuase they still had a whole lot more than the UNSC fleet. It was just a case of superior numbers and technology.


Even if the dropships the Covenant successfully launched to the planet were the maximum numbers "hundreds" could be (999), each of the three portions (333 ships) would only have roughly 9,000 troops, which pales completely in comparison to the military assets Reach has, which in way of troops numbers 385,421,100, and has 58,430 are land assets and 11,050 aircraft as a permanent garrison of the planet. The dropships would be whittled down as they went, remember they had to go from the poles to their three destinations...which would take hours. Hundreds of dropships stand absolutely little to no chance against such numbers...they only do with Halo: Reach in the picture, otherwise...remember the UNSC always completely stomps the Covenant in ground engagements 9 times out of 10.

Perhaps you missed it, 314 ships knocked down to half is roughly 150 ships which about the same number that the UNSC had in addition to all of their SMACs (which count for 3 ships each considering they can take Covenant ships out in a single blow and even that one shot can take out multiple ships if they're lined up. So counting each SMAC as three ships each leaves the UNSC with a fleet strength that would be equal to about 210 ships). And then not to mention the UNSC having so many of its greatest minds present. Like Captain Keyes for one...who, need I mention, took out 3-4 Covenant ships at Sigma Octanus IV with just his one ship. The numbers were not superior by the time battle actually engaged, they were just about even.

  • 09.21.2012 11:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: MongotheRed

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: MongotheRed
Like I said, it was the LARGEST COVENANT FLEET EVER SEEN! Sheer numbers would do it. They would have had enough GRUNTS to take over Reach by themselves. There would just be too many for the marines to do anything. Plus the defense was put under command of a naval admiral, so they wouldn't have been that efficient.


...and yet half of it got wiped out before the battle even really started, leaving the number of ships fighting each other roughly even, and then there are all of the UNSC's orbital defenses and most especially the SMACs. 314 ships, even if it is the biggest collection of Covenant ships the UNSC has ever seen does not mean the Covenant are going to instantly overrun the stronghold of humanity, especially not when, as I already said, half of their fleet is wiped out before they can even engage the UNSC. And hundreds of dropships (not thousands, not millions, just plain old thousands) all splitting up for their various targets, are hardly going to overrun the defenses of those places. They're all military bases that would have fairly large numbers of troops either directly on site or nearby, armor divisions, anti-air units and turrets/defenses...hundreds of dropships are just simply not going to cut it. The account given in the book taken all on its own is retarded in the extreme.



The coveant had much more than the UNSC during the space battle. It usually only takes a dozen or less covenant ships to take over a planet, even if the UNSC have more than the Covenant in terms of ships. And those hundreds of drop ships didn't have to take over the whole planet, they only had to destroy key points. And hundreds of dropships can transfer into thousands of soldiers, if not hundreds of thousands. Plus, the covenant had that one ship that could sniper out the UNSC ships and even took down at least one SuperMAC. It doesn't matter that half the covenant fleet was immediatly wiped out, becuase they still had a whole lot more than the UNSC fleet. It was just a case of superior numbers and technology.


Even if the dropships the Covenant successfully launched to the planet were the maximum numbers "hundreds" could be (999), each of the three portions (333 ships) would only have roughly 9,000 troops, which pales completely in comparison to the military assets Reach has, which in way of troops numbers 385,421,100, and has 58,430 are land assets and 11,050 aircraft as a permanent garrison of the planet. The dropships would be whittled down as they went, remember they had to go from the poles to their three destinations...which would take hours. Hundreds of dropships stand absolutely little to no chance against such numbers...they only do with Halo: Reach in the picture, otherwise...remember the UNSC always completely stomps the Covenant in ground engagements 9 times out of 10.

Perhaps you missed it, 314 ships knocked down to half is roughly 150 ships which about the same number that the UNSC had in addition to all of their SMACs (which count for 3 ships each considering they can take Covenant ships out in a single blow and even that one shot can take out multiple ships if they're lined up. So counting each SMAC as three ships each leaves the UNSC with a fleet strength that would be equal to about 210 ships). And then not to mention the UNSC having so many of its greatest minds present. Like Captain Keyes for one...who, need I mention, took out 3-4 Covenant ships at Sigma Octanus IV with just his one ship. The numbers were not superior by the time battle actually engaged, they were just about even.





You do know that the dropships carry vehicles right? Not to mention 9,000 troops rushing an area that isn't prepared will be more than enough to overrun it which is what happened. The amount of troops doesn't matter since it was clearly established in The Fall of Reach/Fist Strike that they were not prepared for the attack. How would the dropships be whittled down when they didn't even know exactly where they were going? It wouldn't take them "hours" to get to their destinations since it was brought up that the dropships go mach 3-5 (i forgot where maybe a pedia or novel).

You can't say "always" and then say 9 out of 10. The UNSC was not prepared to be overwhelmed hence why they were. 314 ships is more than enough to take out 150 UNSC ships since that is more than the 3:1 ratio. The SMACs are a flawed concept because the UNSC never has enough ships to protect them. Which is why the covenant could just rush them or send out hundreds of dropships (they did both) to take them out. You would need to have enough SMACs to cover the entire planet and then have a sizable fleet to protect them for the defense to be "absolute". Even then once a number of ships go down a SMAc will be left unguarded,destroyed, which will leave a breach in the perimeter and the defense will fail.


You can't count each SMAC as "3 ships" because they have a range and if you are outside that range you can just avoid it. Which is what the sniper ship was doing when it took one (or a few) out. Which would leave another area uncovered even though the amount of SMACS at reach was pathetic and should be your arguing point. Majority of your points are "what ifs" and "it should have been" just because you don't see the way the battle went as correct doesn't mean it wasn't. I don't see the point of arguing it any way since the covenant could keep sending waves to attack the planet (which they did). meaning even if reach survived another wave it would have been overrun by the third one.

  • 09.22.2012 6:26 AM PDT

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
You seem desperate; the last source is far from credible. Try Halopedian.

Anyways, I think Bungie were going at it wrong. Look at what they did to the AR and magnum in Halo 3!

Bungie made Halo.

- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third


Posted by: And Im Here Too
The games overpower the books in terms of canon. If something in the books contradicts something in the games, what's shown in the games is what's true.

Period.

  • 09.22.2012 9:23 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: realdomdom
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
You seem desperate; the last source is far from credible. Try Halopedian.

Anyways, I think Bungie were going at it wrong. Look at what they did to the AR and magnum in Halo 3!

Bungie made Halo.

- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third


Posted by: And Im Here Too
The games overpower the books in terms of canon. If something in the books contradicts something in the games, what's shown in the games is what's true.

Period.


which is the old way and we have known this for years. everything is equal now.

  • 09.22.2012 10:08 AM PDT

Yea. Some men just want to see the world burn.

  • 09.22.2012 10:43 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
WAHAHAHAHBAHAHAHAHA XD oh, gosh, hahehuha, don't make me laugh.
This should be more than enough for me to stop reading and ignore your argument. But I'll make a small exception this time, after all, I had a good time with you guys earlier this year.

Posted by: OrderedComa
The "battle" for Reach in TFoR was one of the most retarded things I have ever read
*sigh* Thanks for completely ignoring my whole argument. I've said in the past that the point of the novel is to introduce the characters, the setting, and last, but not least, REACH WAS SUPPOSED TO FALL IN A SINGLE DAY! Ignore how horribly described the battle is (according to you), by making the battle longer you're pretty much missing the point of the battle. The heart of the UNSC was meant to fall in just a few hours, and it's nearly hilarious how the fans refuse to accept it.

But that's okay, we have a way to compensate such a terrible fight, right? The Covenant just dropped a teleporter from space, explored Reach and had a Supercarrier which the UNSC was not able to notice because it was invisible. That truly compensates that terrible battle. Yup, the Covenant sent a giant teleporter and many of their armed forces to a planet they had no knowledge of. Oh, the UNSC did a terrible job in the book? Easy to solve, LET'S REMOVE IT COMPLETELY! Yup, let's make a game about Reach, the heart of the UNSC, without the UNSC, do I hear Kubrick clapping at me from the grave? He better be, 'cause this sounds like the greatest story ever.

At this point I'm getting tired of constatly arguing with you about the "flaws" in the battle. Reach was meant to fall in a single day, period. Let me look for my glasses... where did I? There's my DS... my Wiimote... where... oh, there they are. Let me just put 'em...

Deal with it.

Fine, to avoid sounding like a douche in here, I'm okay with certain retcons. For example, originally the Elites were an unknown race, there were just some theories, but nothing confirmed. It was until the Fall of Reach where those theories were confirmed. This has been changed, and now ONI and the UNSC has been aware of them for many years. I'm okay with this change if I have to be honest, it makes some sense, and it's effects on the main story are barely affected. Some of the changes are necessary, others trivial, a few unnecessary ones, etc.

The infuriating aspect of Reach is how Bungie, the original writers of this story, decided to re-write the whole thing for no apparent reason other than... I don't know, lost a bet? Perhaps someone trying to impress his girlfriend, I really wish I knew why. Oh, wait, I know! Marcus Lehto gave an interview back in 2010 about Reach. Someone asked him why is Cortana back with Halsey when she should be aboard the Pillar of Autumn. His response? "We felt more confortable with this story" or something like that. He knew all the events from the novel, they all knew. They also knew that the fans took this story very seriously, it's not about the money we spent on the novels, it's about our love for the story, so changing everything for such selfish reasons is just plain unfair. Even worse the fanboys who will gladly take the bullet for Bungie and say "it's their story, they are allowed to change anything they want!". Why do you think people hated the Star Wars prequels so much?

Posted by: OrderedComa
Who ever said anything about him writing the novel from scratch? That is irrelevant to this conversation. And how do you know that, hmmm? How do you know it says Reach fell in a laughable under 60 minute time period? For all you know it could say nothing but "August 30th: Reach falls to the Covenant in the early hours of the morning"...you make awfully big claims for something none of us know a thing about. The Halo Bible is non-evidence for either side, no one save a select few within Bungie, and now 343i, have seen the whole thing, and none of the fans have ever seen any of it, neither you nor me can argue as to what it does or does not contain or does or does not say...that is all I will say on that subject. You can't use it as evidence for anything, and neither can I.
I will keep using the Halo Story Bible argument because it's extremely relevant. Yes, I've never seen it, and I doubt I'll be lucky enough to see it in this life, and yes, I guess there could exist the slight possibility that (back when Shyamalan was part of the team) all this was already written in the Halo Story Bible, but Bungie thought it would be too complicated and told Nylund to avoid spilling the beans and just cover the "basics", to say it this way, I don't know all the facts. What I know is that Nylund was given the Halo Story Bible, and he used it to write both The Fall of Reach, First Strike, etc. I'm just using some common sense in here.

For example, if we were discussing about Mendez relationship with Halsey in Glasslands, and I mentioned that it makes no sense that they respected each other in the past and now, out of nowhere, they hate each other, are you going to tell me "how do you know it wasn't planned from the start?"? Why not just accept that this mess we call Reach is truly bad writing? As said previously, I don't know if these events were already written back when Nylund wrote TFoR back in 2001, but by using common sense one can easily assume it wasn't, Nylund used all the material given to him by Bungie, eventually Bungie changed it's mind and decided to ruin the Universe, and the fans, believing that they will be eventually rewarded with super mega reconz!!!! will always take the bullet for them. Nice going guys!

Posted by: OrderedComa
And it has also been said (whether it was by Bungie or Nylynd I don't fully remember, though I do believe it was Bungie) that Nylund and Bungie have had rather differing visions on the portrayal and/or content within his books. So just because Nylund threw it in there does not necessarily mean that it's something Bungie told him to put in or Bungie has as information within the Halo Bible.
Microsoft commissiones Nylund to write a novel. Bungie approved his outline so that it wouldn't conflict with their game and also shared their information with him. It's both disrespectful towards Nylund and the fans to change everything because Bungie thought of a "betterer" story. And what if they had conflicts in the way the story should be told? This move was highly unprofessional from them. Stories kept being made, Bungie still allowed Nylund to access the story bible so that he could write more novels, they even referenced the first novel in Halo 3. They accepted Nylund's "selfish" vision of the Halo Universe and so did the fans. Heck, even Staten wrote a novel, so what gives?

Posted by: OrderedComa
2. I've never said anything about TFoR being ignored because the battle sucks.
Sometimes I wish you did, I mean, it's a terrible argument, but far better than "Halo 3 was my first Halo game, so I'm okay with all these changes because I'm barely affected". We've had some progress today, little miss.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Get off your high-horse, you sure are awfully presumptuous and arrogant assuming you know what every fan wants, likes, or believes.
Yeah... those flowers I ordered... I'll be getting a refund, sorry. She hates me.

Posted by: OrderedComa
I did not enjoy Glasslands, I however don't rage or -blam!- about it
Instead, you make people rage or blam! about it!

Well, I'm having a terrible, terrible hangover right now, so I'll go to my bed now. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is being aired right now, my favorite in the bunch... it's going to be a good day...

[Edited on 09.22.2012 5:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.22.2012 5:39 PM PDT

Wow. Go drink a beer or something. It helps you to, ... you know ... relax.

  • 09.22.2012 6:51 PM PDT

As said previously, I'm having a terrible hangover right now. No drinks for me in a few days.

  • 09.22.2012 6:58 PM PDT

Sigh. I'll just toss it out there.

There is no reason, at all, for the UNSC ground forces in The Fall of Reach to be unprepared. The SECOND the Covenant fleet was detected the ground forces and defenses should have been alerted and made ready for action.

I do not think the "Reach was supposed to fall quickly for these reasons!" argument is bad, however, the Book depiction makes the UNSC kinda seem like idiots.

Edit: And seriously, the whole statement of "You don't agree with my exact viewpoints, clearly you never played CE first of the games and/or started with Halo 3 or Reach." is just -blam!- stupid.

OH.
MY.
-blam!-.
GOD.
SOMEBODY.
HAS.
A.
DIFFERENT.
VIEWPOINT.

[Edited on 09.22.2012 7:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.22.2012 7:36 PM PDT

My YouTube Channel
Bungiepedia Page

"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

I like the part where people recognize the troll attempt, call the OP out on it, yet still waste time and effort coming up with a response.

  • 09.22.2012 7:45 PM PDT

Seems like all the action is gone, though.

I'll just share a little secret with you.
I haven't read any Halo books, so, for me, games are canon.
Lol

  • 09.23.2012 6:24 AM PDT

The ONI Datadrops mean that Reach more or less fits in perfectly with The Fall of Reach. It's all retroactive excuses, but done incredibly well.

  • 09.23.2012 7:43 AM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog
The ONI Datadrops mean that Reach more or less fits in perfectly with The Fall of Reach. It's all retroactive excuses, but done incredibly well.


Also turns Parangosky into basically a traitor without a lick of intelligence... but oh well...

(By that, I mean the fact she willingly tossed Reach to the Covenant just to get a ship to capture.

[Edited on 09.23.2012 8:16 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2012 8:15 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog
The ONI Datadrops mean that Reach more or less fits in perfectly with The Fall of Reach. It's all retroactive excuses, but done incredibly well.


Also turns Parangosky into basically a traitor without a lick of intelligence... but oh well...

(By that, I mean the fact she willingly tossed Reach to the Covenant just to get a ship to capture.


Halsey was in on it too. It was sound strategy and would have worked if it hadn't been for the unwillingness of the Autumn's crew to follow orders and stay out of the battle.

Though, if they'd kidnapped Regret, I highly doubt Truth would have traded him back for a piece of chewing gum.

[Edited on 09.23.2012 8:21 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2012 8:19 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.


Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.
Someone please explain the logic of the UNSC having all of their remaining nukes out of Reach's system and not recalling them ahead of time when they declared Winter Contingency?

Let alone how did a freaking super carrier even get to Reach without the UNSC detecting it exiting slipspace when the UNSC has post's set up all over the system to monitor slipspace travel?

Halo: Reach's story was poorly thought out and it's writing was can be summed up as, "let's just think about a bunch of level scenario's, throw them together randomly and try to piece together a coherent story around it." Sure enough Halo: Reach was pretty incoherent.

[Edited on 09.23.2012 8:40 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2012 8:33 AM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog
The ONI Datadrops mean that Reach more or less fits in perfectly with The Fall of Reach. It's all retroactive excuses, but done incredibly well.


Also turns Parangosky into basically a traitor without a lick of intelligence... but oh well...

(By that, I mean the fact she willingly tossed Reach to the Covenant just to get a ship to capture.


Halsey was in on it too. It was sound strategy and would have worked if it hadn't been for the unwillingness of the Autumn's crew to follow orders and stay out of the battle.

Though, if they'd kidnapped Regret, I highly doubt Truth would have traded him back for a piece of chewing gum.


Halsey was in on the "Capture Covie ship, then kidnap a prophet"

Not the "We will DAMN Reach and everybody on the planet to do that."

Posted by: The BS Police

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I don't get why everyone loves the FOR story so much. I thought that the bits during the spartan training were really good but the actual invasion of reach was poorly thought out. That the best defended UNSC world fell in a single day, whereas harvest was fought over for more than 5 years, is ridiculous.
Also the covenant somehow knew the location of every military base and orbital platform power plant and using only a few thousand phantoms managed to destroy them all, despite supposedly all the spartan IIs being on the planet to defend them.
Someone please explain the logic behind that.
Someone please explain the logic of the UNSC having all of their remaining nukes out of Reach's system and not recalling them ahead of time when they declared Winter Contingency?

Let alone how did a freaking super carrier even get to Reach without the UNSC detecting it exiting slipspace when the UNSC has post's set up all over the system to monitor slipspace travel?


A: Who says Carter frakking knows the situation of the fleet, being on the ground? Remember, the datapads had ONI basically funnel the ENTIRE fleet(pretty much) to the other side of the planet and kept in the dark about what was going on. The ground forces engaged there likewise could be in the dark about what's going on exactly in orbit.
B: Again, ONI kept things in the dark.

To second part, take it up with 343. They are the ones who said the Supercarrier had a cloaking device of some sort which allowed it to arrive and deploy forces without being detected. Also ties into the "ONI -blam!- had people clueless about what was going on."

  • 09.23.2012 8:39 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
A: Who says Carter frakking knows the situation of the fleet, being on the ground? Remember, the datapads had ONI basically funnel the ENTIRE fleet(pretty much) to the other side of the planet and kept in the dark about what was going on. The ground forces engaged there likewise could be in the dark about what's going on exactly in orbit.
B: Again, ONI kept things in the dark.
Long Night of Solace has Carter state, all of our nukes are either out of system or went down with the ships that were carrying them. Makes no sense that they wouldn't have any Nuke's left still planetside, let alone the fact that Winter Contingency was declared on July 24, 2552 the entire UNSC fleet should have been at Reach by the time of Nightfall and Tip of The Spear.

To second part, take it up with 343. They are the ones who said the Supercarrier had a cloaking device of some sort which allowed it to arrive and deploy forces without being detected. Also ties into the "ONI -blam!- had people clueless about what was going on."343 Industries has to excuse it somehow, Bungie are the ones who wrote it. A cloaking device wouldn't have prevented the UNSC and ONI from detecting the Supercarrier exiting slipspace either way.

[Edited on 09.23.2012 8:52 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2012 8:51 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: The BS Police
A cloaking device wouldn't have prevented the UNSC and ONI from detecting the Supercarrier exiting slipspace either way.


I'm puzzled about this. Covenant camouflage generators produce vast arrays of heat, IIRC. A super carrier and the half-a-dozen or so corvettes around the rest of the planet would be firing signal flares at the surveillance outposts...

  • 09.23.2012 9:36 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member

Who gives a crap, It's a fictional story. Get over yourselves.

  • 09.23.2012 9:57 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Habah
Who gives a crap, It's a fictional story. Get over yourselves.


What an illuminating, productive response! Well done, dear. :)

  • 09.23.2012 10:01 AM PDT

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