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  • Subject: Total human population at beginning of H-C war
Subject: Total human population at beginning of H-C war
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"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

In Foward Unto Dawn's "Lecture" preview (1:37) the commander mentions that the total human population is in the trillions. That can't be right, can it? It was my understanding that it was still in the billions.

[Edited on 09.26.2012 3:45 AM PDT]

  • 09.26.2012 3:44 AM PDT

I could've sworn when the Covenant pushed us to Earth they almost made us extinct and head back to the billions myself. BABY BOOMERS REPOPULATED SO FAST.

  • 09.26.2012 4:44 AM PDT
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"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

Posted by: Loving_Lisama
I could've sworn when the Covenant pushed us to Earth they almost made us extinct and head back to the billions myself. BABY BOOMERS REPOPULATED SO FAST.


If I remember correctly, Forward Unto Dawn takes place at the beginning of the Human-Covenant war.

  • 09.26.2012 4:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Loving_Lisama
I could've sworn when the Covenant pushed us to Earth they almost made us extinct and head back to the billions myself. BABY BOOMERS REPOPULATED SO FAST.
These were dark times.

  • 09.26.2012 5:14 AM PDT


Posted by: Loving_Lisama
I could've sworn when the Covenant pushed us to Earth they almost made us extinct and head back to the billions myself. BABY BOOMERS REPOPULATED SO FAST.
Dr.Kliener must have told everyone to get busy.

  • 09.26.2012 6:36 AM PDT

Rustled Jimmies

Forward Unto Dawn takes place at the beginning of the Human/Covenant war when Humans were at their prime. At the end of the war we were pushed back to earth. the exact number i don't know but i can imagine that a highly advanced alien race would push us back a lot

  • 09.26.2012 10:23 AM PDT

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I know we're not talking about post-war, but I remember the Halo 3 Bestiarum mentioning that the population of Earth is roughly 200 million at the end of the war. I mean, post-Halo 3 fiction has shown us that Earth wasn't the last colony standing, although it may have been the only one of significance.

I digress: what is the current accepted count for UNSC colonies, 700 still? (I know that number has fluctuated as much as the S-II roster.) If you assume every colony has a population comprable to Earth, yeah, trillions easy. However, I recall Harvest only having a population of either several hundred thousand or just a few million.

Granted, not every colony will be the same, but I like to think that's a jumping off point for a discussion such as this. Harvest was considered "small," if I recall correctly. Not tiny, but small. So what's 'big' then? What was Reach's population prior to it's fall? Is it safe to assume that Reach was the second largest population center in the UNSC empire?

I don't know; just throwing all this out there.

  • 09.26.2012 11:48 AM PDT

ONI knows. But don't expect to hear anything truthful from them anytime soon. They embellished 'Glassing', distorted the course of the war, and hid the UNSC Infinity.

The population levels after the war may also be much higher than originally speculated. And the UNSC probably has quite a lot of colonies still left intact and untouched.

There is no better motivator than the [perceived] threat of extinction.

  • 09.27.2012 2:29 AM PDT
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"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

Posted by: MaxRealflugel
ONI knows. But don't expect to hear anything truthful from them anytime soon. They embellished 'Glassing', distorted the course of the war, and hid the UNSC Infinity.

The population levels after the war may also be much higher than originally speculated. And the UNSC probably has quite a lot of colonies still left intact and untouched.

There is no better motivator than the [perceived] threat of extinction.


But trillions though? That seems a little high.

  • 09.27.2012 3:13 AM PDT

Not really. Over 800 colonized worlds.

  • 09.27.2012 4:19 AM PDT
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It has been discussed that it was about 40billion, that was a fact.

  • 09.27.2012 8:16 AM PDT

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Posted by: FTW 1997
It has been discussed that it was about 40billion, that was a fact.

LOL fact.

  • 09.28.2012 10:58 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

I heard 23 billion, but I have no source.

  • 09.29.2012 11:31 AM PDT

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Posted by: MaxRealflugel
Not really. Over 800 colonized worlds.

Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million)
Billion = 1,000,000,000 (one thousand million)

Trillions is plural (>two million millions) (minimum).

2x10^12/800=2500000000 (25 billion) per planet if evenly distributed.

Conclusion: wtf?!

[Edited on 09.29.2012 11:49 AM PDT]

  • 09.29.2012 11:44 AM PDT

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Posted by: Primo84
I digress: what is the current accepted count for UNSC colonies, 700 still? (I know that number has fluctuated as much as the S-II roster.) If you assume every colony has a population comparable to Earth, yeah, trillions easy. However, I recall Harvest only having a population of either several hundred thousand or just a few million.

There basically isn't a confirmed number of colonies. Every source that gives solid numbers conflicts in some way. Contact Harvest (pg32) said that Harvest was the 17th colony, established in 2468. Additionally, it said that with enough fuel, a UNSC ship with a slipspace drive could traverse the volume of space containing all Human territories within a year. (Harvest was 2 months from Reach and was described to be the farthest Human colony from Earth) So taking Staten's interpretation, there is not much space for trillions. I think it's just hyperbole, perhaps the guy is talking about the future as well where one day Humanity might be spread far and wide.

I think Staten's is a bit too low personally. I'd be happy to accept that the Covenant cannot actually travel 912 light years per day because that sounds a bit ridiculous, and I doubt Nylund was really thinking abut the technical details when he was trying to get Blue Team to Onyx. (Ships travel at the speed of plot) Even with that though, I doubt the war would have lasted for 27 years if Humanity only had 17 colonies, nor would the death toll have been as high. Reach has one of the highest, if not the highest, population of about 700 million. Harvest is the lower end of 300'000. 23 billion deaths is impossible from >17 worlds destroyed.

As much as Staten's figures are flawed though, (Maybe they weren't at the time though. The 23 billion number came after him. Still not sure about how long the war should have lasted with that low number though) the numbers 343i gave us with the Encyclopaedia were even more daft, just on the opposite end of the scale.

In 2362, the first of what would be known as the Inner Colonies was established (pg33). 28 years later, and apparently 210 Inner Colonies have now been established... This is a number that I would think is sensible for Outer + Inner in 2552... Not Inner only after merely 28 years of interstellar travel. Over the next 100 years, until 2490, the UNSC supposedly has 800 Inner colonies. Not Outer. Inner.

Then it goes and contradicts itself like 5 pages later. Although this sounds a bit more sensible than the timeline page, and falls more in line with the numbers Staten gave. In 2390, 21 Colonies are established. (The 210 from earlier may have been a typo. I don't know if it has been corrected; I only have the 1st Encyclopaedia) These range from population centres to mining and industrial worlds with little to no long term population. Then it gets a bit silly again by saying that by 2490 Human space encompassed over 800 worlds but that only 17 of them had Human settlements. These again ranged from centres of industry and technology to settlements that could barely sustain 10'000 people.

It all sounds a bit iffy, but the Encyclopaedia's second lot of figures is what I generally tend to rationalise with. 21 worlds with a Human flag, but only a few were proper colonies. 100 years later, 800 worlds with a Human flag, but no where near all of them where proper colonies. I still think 17 is too low though, just due to the scale of the war. It should be much higher given the 23 billion casualties from the war.

  • 09.29.2012 1:39 PM PDT

What a waste....


Posted by: the real Janaka
Posted by: MaxRealflugel
Not really. Over 800 colonized worlds.

Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million)
Billion = 1,000,000,000 (one thousand million)

Trillions is plural (>two million millions) (minimum).

2x10^12/800=2500000000 (25 billion) per planet if evenly distributed.

Conclusion: wtf?!
Yeah. I don't see how it hit trillions. MAYBE 90,000,000,000, maybe.

  • 09.29.2012 3:15 PM PDT