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Subject: Should Bungie revist the cityscape of New Mombasa?
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Posted by: HaloFighter92
Did you all ignore what I said? New Mombasa is a reck now due to Regrets space bubble when it went into slip space. Too late to remodel it now.


Most of it. Its wrecked, yes, but not GONE. Obviously its isn't all gone, as you can see the suspension bridge in the distance. We don't know all the effects that that slipspace jump had. Obviously, there is still stuff there. And, there are other cities on Earth, Chief won't necessarily land in Mombasa, and we don't know exactly what state the rest of the city is in. And there are timewarp effects possible, according to the books, some freaky time warping -blam!- has occurred before, due to the damn crystal thing.

Personally, I think the city would look better wrecked-ish. It would give it that destroyed, under attack feel of the preview for Halo 2, gritty and bloody, you know? Because the Mombasa in H2 sucked, it was all grassy and pretty, well decorated and undestroyed (how the hell?) by the Covenant. All the structures were in mint condition. It sucked.

[Edited on 6/26/2006]

  • 06.26.2006 3:16 PM PDT
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Damn....did it ever occur to u that I put the z on purpose...thatz what I do.....itz really not that hard to comprehend...really itz not. It doezn't take a genius to figure it out...if it give u a headache...good maybe ur brain will enhance in size and maybe u'll learn something. If not there are worse things to B!tch about....if ur gonna be a little girl about cool but just dont complain about stupid $hit...now if I insulted ur mom or ur family then maybe I'd agree that u have some $hit to talk about if not; QUIT BEINGA LITTLE BIOTCH!!!! u sound like a 2yr old.

  • 06.26.2006 3:55 PM PDT
Subject: Should Bungie revisit the cityscape of New Mombasa?

Halo's a hell of a drug.

Yes that scene was so tight. Fighting Brutes on Earth would be cool.

  • 06.26.2006 3:57 PM PDT
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ok toxic lag....ur right remote wuz probably a bad word to use but f**k u let ur panties get up in a bunch!!!!! (considering itz a thong and all...lol) But what i meant cuz I have to make a hard concept fit into ur puny mind....what I meant wuz they should make it so that Master Cheif lands on a part of New Mombosa that is in somewhat still intact...(similar to what E3 halo2 preview) but for those of you who will argue......some parts or maybe not all of new mombosa will still be in ruins...so he should land were it maybe close to were u begin the Halo3 trailer. hence the bridge in the background and all that. Then He would make his way thru whutz left of the city...(thatz controlled by the covenant by now) and then eventually move on to the outskirts or where ever the ark is located (if in fact it is the ark). and yes master chief doesnt know itz the ark but obviously he knows somethings up cuz there is a bunch of covenant ships heading towards this thing thatz opening up from the ground.

  • 06.26.2006 4:07 PM PDT
Subject: Should Bungie revist the cityscape of New Mombasa?
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one, you can't revisit new or old mambasa cause it is destroyed. and two it did look cool in the old halo 2 e3 trailer but seeing how the covies only landed in one spot, that place was important and they needed to recover something before completely destroying the mombasas. which happened in the slip space jump.

and as a question, do you think it will be elaborated up what they found there(not the big dome from teh H3 trailer) cause they had to find something cause they jumped right to delta halo afterwards

  • 06.26.2006 4:13 PM PDT
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Well yeah but Toxic lag is a Dumb@ass and getz his feelingz hurt...becuz they way I put the z instead of the s and becuz well....he cant really understand.

  • 06.26.2006 4:19 PM PDT

"There are fighters and there are targets. There is nothing else."

Posted by: Death_Causer
one, you can't revisit new or old mambasa cause it is destroyed. and two it did look cool in the old halo 2 e3 trailer but seeing how the covies only landed in one spot, that place was important and they needed to recover something before completely destroying the mombasas. which happened in the slip space jump.

and as a question, do you think it will be elaborated up what they found there(not the big dome from teh H3 trailer) cause they had to find something cause they jumped right to delta halo afterwards


ok, watch the trailer. you can see the damn city in the background! the remains are at least 10 stories tall. it hasn't been "vaporized" or anything. there are still several large buildings remaining.

god how many times does that have to be posted.

  • 06.26.2006 4:21 PM PDT

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Emphasis added.
Posted by: Toxic Lag
The trailer showed a dark, gritty city, that was clearly under attack.The city looked like a real city might in the future, everything was a grayish metal, with curving streets and overpasses that added to the confusion. Even though you could only see small areas of the city at one time, it was obvious there was stuff happening outside of areas the MC was at. The level had a very desperate, last hope, hurry the hell up or we'll die feel to it. It was believable, and it looked awesome.

Halo 2 showed us a more bright and happy looking city, that looked like it was planned as a zoo. There were small, grassy openings in the middle of all the gray metal, which was silly. Outside the tunnel was very cool, except for the oddly placed grass in the middle of all the metal and stone. And instead of being a cityscape, it looked like an amusement park, very happy and friendly, no battle damage, very linear, and over with far to soon. That level had a "yeah, there are Covies here, but look! Flowers! And pretty landscape! Take your time and enjoy the garden under the platform." fell to it.

For those who don't get what I'm saying, watch the E3 trailer, preferable on the Xbox (disk 2 of the soundtrack for Halo: CE. Then play Metropolis. The difference is painful. Trailer: Dark, gritty, futuristic, war-torn. Halo 2: Meh, we want it to look PRETTY. So here is some GRASS AND FLOWERS. I think Halo 3 should revisit that cityscape, and put us in the middle of that city, trying to push the Covenant invasion out.


Yes, the original Earth City level looked pretty cool. But when you think about it, it's not that realistic. I mean, who would ever want to live in that featureless metal canyon? A claustrophobic maze of grey walls and massive overhanging ledges? Yes, it's futuristic and "gritty". But as a city it's not livable or human.

Now, the New Mombasa level hits much closer to home. Yes, it has towering skyscrapers, a space elevator, industrial zones, and all the other features of a 26th-century metropolis. But it is also designed to incorporate the pleasant aspects of successful cities. So it also has parks, waterfalls, and tree-lined plazas. It's supposed to be "pretty" because it's a place where real people live.

Old Mombasa is also realistically portrayed. Not every area in the world can be expected to be well-developed. So the Outskirts level acts as the local slum; its residents live in relatively ancient office buildings and apartment complexes. The only difference is that these dacaying neighborhoods are mostly retrofitted with advanced technology.

So remember: just because humanity has advanced technologically doesn't mean it has lost its soul. The people of 2552 want to live in well-designed, aesthetic cities just as much as people today do. Nobody wants to live in a claustrophobic metal hive, which is exactly what Earth City was. So that's the way that Bungie designed it in the end.

[Edited on 6/26/2006]

  • 06.26.2006 5:10 PM PDT
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Hoo-rah! I never liked the city in the Trailer for two reasons: one, the whole thing felt scripted; two, the reason you just mentioned.

  • 06.26.2006 5:26 PM PDT
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Personally I feel plopping in that exact map used in the halo 2 trailer would be pretty cool.

With such a large map as they displayed and all the numerous otherways it made it really feel like a city rather than that weak straight forward level we hade. Come on we were fighting in a huge city that should have numerous twists, turns, and a lot of civilians (some should have been cought out in the streets), open and accessible buildings and desroyed sections of the city. Instead halo 2 gives us city levels that are sadly more straight forward than the canyons of halo 1.

At least the level "halo" of halo 1 let you branch off and loop around and about between 3 different end sites, why the heck can't an entire city not offer ever a few side roads or paths that lead off to the distance.

Really bungie give us a city. Because honestly halo 2s' city image was worse than the Doom 2 attempt at earth.

  • 06.26.2006 5:38 PM PDT

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I mean seriously people, think about it: would you rather live here (Earth City) or here (New Mombasa)?

  • 06.26.2006 6:38 PM PDT
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The trailer of Halo3 is already visited by Master Chief clearly seen in the backround. The New Mombasa is already gone remember Regret escaping the city w/ its Slip-Space gap that sucked the citiy?

  • 06.26.2006 6:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jordan117

Yes, the original Earth City level looked pretty cool. But when you think about it, it's not that realistic. I mean, who would ever want to live in that featureless metal canyon? A claustrophobic maze of grey walls and massive overhanging ledges? Yes, it's futuristic and "gritty". But as a city it's not livable or human.

Now, the New Mombasa level hits much closer to home. Yes, it has towering skyscrapers, a space elevator, industrial zones, and all the other features of a 26th-century metropolis. But it is also designed to incorporate the pleasant aspects of successful cities. So it also has parks, waterfalls, and tree-lined plazas. It's supposed to be "pretty" because it's a place where real people live.

Old Mombasa is also realistically portrayed. Not every area in the world can be expected to be well-developed. So the Outskirts level acts as the local slum; its residents live in relatively ancient office buildings and apartment complexes. The only difference is that these dacaying neighborhoods are mostly retrofitted with advanced technology.

So remember: just because humanity has advanced technologically doesn't mean it has lost its soul. The people of 2552 want to live in well-designed, aesthetic cities just as much as people today do. Nobody wants to live in a claustrophobic metal hive, which is exactly what Earth City was. So that's the way that Bungie designed it in the end.


Actually, there are people who think the modernization is better looking than nature, myself included.

But you are right, the Halo 2 version looked more like a place where people might live, BUT, the Halo 2 version, you will notice is nearly devoid of any roads. There is only ONE path for vehicles.
I believe that area you fight in in Halo 2 is more of a "suburb" of Mombasa, if you notice in the preview video, it didn't look like a residential area, it looked like a thouroughfare to the various industrial complexes, and industrial areas are historically devoid of pretty.

It is very much like New York City in that respect, Central Park is a pretty, friendly place, much like Halo 2's Mombasa, but in the downtown area there is little prettiness to be seen, it is all cold steel and cement, much like the trailer was.

The area in the trailer is obviously the industrial heart of the city, obvious due to the towering skyscrapers, industrial buildings, and maze of roads leading to them.

And yes, the Old Mombasa was portrayed well as a slum area, as was the New Mombasa portrayed as a residential area. BUT, the Covenant would not strike homes first. They would attack the industrial center, to cut off supplies and products, and cause greater panic to the rest of Earth.

And in the future, most of the aesthetics would probably be lost to practicality, and the trailer showed that very well.

Also, yes, a residential area would be clean, and not gritty, NORMALLY. But you must remember, in Halo 2, the Covenant had touched down on Earth and started a war. War brings grit, through blood, bone, and explosive residue.

And the city: so clean. Even where the Covenant would logically hit hardest, the small bit of industry we see in Halo 2, just outside the marine CP, is untouched. Clean, devoid of the damage that war brings, the streets are clean, the windows and walls of everything are very clean.
It wouldn't have been that clean even before the Covies hit. Anyone who lives in a downtown area knows that the industrial heart of a city is anything but pretty, it is covered in grime from factories, crap on the road, litter, and homeless people.

While the Halo 2 version was more livable, it was less practical, less realistic, and far too untouched by war. It should've taken place in the cold, industrial heart, not in the residential area.

  • 06.26.2006 8:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: Toxic Lag
Actually, there are people who think the modernization is better looking than nature, myself included.

Point taken. Not everyone's tastes are the same. But the majority of people prefer at least a few attractive, bucolic structures in their large cities. Every city in the world has them.

But you are right, the Halo 2 version looked more like a place where people might live, BUT, the Halo 2 version, you will notice is nearly devoid of any roads. There is only ONE path for vehicles.
Not really. There are more roads, but most of them are closed off behind those big blast doors. If you look at the map of New Mombasa found in Terminal, you'll see that most of the city is served by an extensive road and rail network.

I believe that area you fight in in Halo 2 is more of a "suburb" of Mombasa, if you notice in the preview video, it didn't look like a residential area, it looked like a thouroughfare to the various industrial complexes, and industrial areas are historically devoid of pretty.
Although I'm fairly certain that the Earth City environment doesn't exist in the final game (why doesn't that enormous sky city ever appear on the horizon?) it's safe to say that an environment similar to it in style exists, especially in the more industrial areas. However, the areas of New Mombasa seen in the game are at least partly industrial as well (remember those huge pipes and industrial canals?), suggesting that other industrial areas would look similar.

It is very much like New York City in that respect, Central Park is a pretty, friendly place, much like Halo 2's Mombasa, but in the downtown area there is little prettiness to be seen, it is all cold steel and cement, much like the trailer was.
I've been to New York, and that's not completely true. There are plenty of smaller parks (Washington Square, Battery Park, Riverside), in addition to things like sidewalk trees and landscaped boulevards. Even the downtown sector has beauty and style in terms of architecture and public art. You can even see this in the map of New Mombasa I mentioned; the island is dotted with orange patches representing public parks.

The area in the trailer is obviously the industrial heart of the city, obvious due to the towering skyscrapers, industrial buildings, and maze of roads leading to them.
Actually, the industrial heart of the city can be seen in the game, at the end of the Metropolis level. Since New Mombasa's strategic and economic importance is based on the space elevator, then logically most of the industrial installations would be crowded around it, no? And that's exactly the view you get at the end of the canal: the space elevator, surrounded by skyscrapers and warehouses built in much the same style as the city you just fought through.

And yes, the Old Mombasa was portrayed well as a slum area, as was the New Mombasa portrayed as a residential area. BUT, the Covenant would not strike homes first. They would attack the industrial center, to cut off supplies and products, and cause greater panic to the rest of Earth.
Once again, the Covenant weren't there to destroy. They were occupying the town until they found what they wanted. They do the same thing in the books sometimes.

And in the future, most of the aesthetics would probably be lost to practicality, and the trailer showed that very well.
As long as people have to live, work, shop, and raise families, the need to build cities of beauty as well as practicality will never be abandoned. I think this excerpt from the Art of Halo book says it well:

The economic and strategic importance of New Mombasa is reflected in the scale and scope of the city as envisioned by Bungie. Clearly industrial and practival, the city is still strewn with parks, gardens, and other more bucolic and attractive structures. Far from the dystopian visions seen in movies like Blade Runner and The Fifth Element, New Mombasa incorporates attractive, practical architecture with a clean, expressive aesthetic.

Also, yes, a residential area would be clean, and not gritty, NORMALLY. But you must remember, in Halo 2, the Covenant had touched down on Earth and started a war. War brings grit, through blood, bone, and explosive residue.

And the city: so clean. Even where the Covenant would logically hit hardest, the small bit of industry we see in Halo 2, just outside the marine CP, is untouched. Clean, devoid of the damage that war brings, the streets are clean, the windows and walls of everything are very clean.

Again, the Covenant were busy occupying and searching, not destroying, the city. If they wanted to destroy New Mombasa they could have done so much more easily from orbit. They don't care about our infrastructure or our industry, they just wanted to complete their mission with as little human interference as possible.

It wouldn't have been that clean even before the Covies hit. Anyone who lives in a downtown area knows that the industrial heart of a city is anything but pretty, it is covered in grime from factories, crap on the road, litter, and homeless people.
Perhaps 26th-century industry is a bit more efficient than today. Our factories pollute less than the coal-belching mills of the Industrial Revolution, so it's likely that, given 500 years, we could make even more improvements. Also, if you look around, you'll see that trash and litter has collected in some corners of the area, despite the omnipresent "NMWM" (New Mombasa Waste Management) bins. And the homeless? They're all in Old Mombasa.

While the Halo 2 version was more livable, it was less practical, less realistic, and far too untouched by war. It should've taken place in the cold, industrial heart, not in the residential area.
I think Bungie set most of the game in familiar-looking areas (dusty markets, beaches, city plazas, industrial parks, etc.) so that the player could relate to it more. Seeing the Covenant invade a multileveled concrete structure incites no emotions. But mowing down Elites in the earthy back alleys of Old Mombasa, or in the palm tree-lined boulevards of the city center? It hits much closer to home.

  • 06.26.2006 10:31 PM PDT
Subject: Should Bungie revisit the cityscape of New Mombasa?

Verbose, as usual.

I'm prety sure that most of new mombasa is somewhere in orbit near Delta Halo. That might be kind of hard ;p But, your idea about a darker, more war torn earth, with multiple pathways.. they did say that they were saving their polygon counts for somthing else. I would love if if their engine were to like crowds and large open spaces this time around...

  • 06.26.2006 10:34 PM PDT
Subject: Should Bungie revist the cityscape of New Mombasa?
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Posted by: Jordan117

Not really. There are more roads, but most of them are closed off behind those big blast doors. If you look at the map of New Mombasa found in Terminal, you'll see that most of the city is served by an extensive road and rail network.

This is true, but very, very little of that is visible in campaign. Even the blast doors you mentioned are something of a rarity.


Although I'm fairly certain that the Earth City environment doesn't exist in the final game (why doesn't that enormous sky city ever appear on the horizon?) it's safe to say that an environment similar to it in style exists, especially in the more industrial areas. However, the areas of New Mombasa seen in the game are at least partly industrial as well (remember those huge pipes and industrial canals?), suggesting that other industrial areas would look similar.


Uh, no I don't suppose I do remember any pipes, except one, when you come up through the underground roadway in Metropolis, but that isn't a waste tunnel, it looks like an accessway. Although I do see occasional pipelines on walls and ceilings in the level, I believe those are power line and waste (poo) removal pipes from the homes. But, you could be right, they could very well be industrial lines, but the area you fight in doesn't feel like an industrial park. That is pure speculation, I suppose.
But yes, we can at least agree that somewhere an environment more like Earth City exists, somewhere.


I've been to New York, and that's not completely true. There are plenty of smaller parks (Washington Square, Battery Park, Riverside), in addition to things like sidewalk trees and landscaped boulevards. Even the downtown sector has beauty and style in terms of architecture and public art. You can even see this in the map of New Mombasa I mentioned; the island is dotted with orange patches representing public parks.


Granted, downtown NYC does maintain aesthetic construction and parks, but it is definitely not as green as the area of New Mombasa was in Halo 2.


Actually, the industrial heart of the city can be seen in the game, at the end of the Metropolis level. Since New Mombasa's strategic and economic importance is based on the space elevator, then logically most of the industrial installations would be crowded around it, no? And that's exactly the view you get at the end of the canal: the space elevator, surrounded by skyscrapers and warehouses built in much the same style as the city you just fought through.


I do not think that all the factories would be crowded around the elevator, as factories are not built with beauty in mind, they are built ugly, but efficient. And, the area you fight in is mostly office buildings that are very low, in comparison to those in the trailer, you never get close to all the skyscrapers, really.


Once again, the Covenant weren't there to destroy. They were occupying the town until they found what they wanted. They do the same thing in the books sometimes.


Yes, they were looking for something, but they also believe that humans must be annihilated, religiously. When they occupied Sigma Octanus V in the book FoR (I think it was that one), trying to find their stone thing, they did anything but avoid humans, they annihilated the civilian population there, and all the military bases nearby. The Covenant aren't ONLY looking for the Ark, they are also trying to make us extinct. That's why the glassed Reach, and destroy Sigma Octanus.


As long as people have to live, work, shop, and raise families, the need to build cities of beauty as well as practicality will never be abandoned. I think this excerpt from the Art of Halo book says it well:

The economic and strategic importance of New Mombasa is reflected in the scale and scope of the city as envisioned by Bungie. Clearly industrial and practival, the city is still strewn with parks, gardens, and other more bucolic and attractive structures. Far from the dystopian visions seen in movies like Blade Runner and The Fifth Element, New Mombasa incorporates attractive, practical architecture with a clean, expressive aesthetic.


Okay, you've got me there. But, you must keep in mind that according to canon, the Earth was overcrowded (hence the space colonization). If a planet is overcrowded, they don't have much room to sacrifice to aesthetics. Especially in a place of industry. Yes, they look pretty, but they use up space where a factory or office could be, increasing productivity. This is doubly true in a time of crisis, as the human race is in, because of the Covenant.


Again, the Covenant were busy occupying and searching, not destroying, the city. If they wanted to destroy New Mombasa they could have done so much more easily from orbit. They don't care about our infrastructure or our industry, they just wanted to complete their mission with as little human interference as possible.


Like I said before, in The Fall of Reach, the Covenant were on the planet Sigma Octanus V, getting a stone with some kind of encryption on it (which was later found to have co-ordinates to Earth). They annihilated all civilian and military presence on the ground, not with an orbital attack.




[Edited on 6/27/2006]

  • 06.27.2006 12:40 PM PDT
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New Mombasa is on the horizon in the trailer. And this is taken from about half way through the game, so there is still a last half and first half of the game for us to do some urban warfare.

  • 06.27.2006 12:43 PM PDT

I would love to see that city as a level in Halo 3

  • 06.27.2006 12:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Toxic Lag
Posted by: Infestation
Idiots, look in the Halo 3 trailer, in the distance behind the Forerunner artifact you CLEARLY see a city, and Bungie has even said that that is Mombassa. Now I would love a level where you get to go there and fight through the ruined city which is totally under Covenant control. Mabie we could go some weather effects, like some rain from those storm clouds to darken the mood.


Finally, someone who understands what I said! THANK YOU!
I know that the Mygeeto map from Battlefront 2 was awesome, with roadblocks, craters, rubble piles, and small fires everywhere. It kind of looked like Stalingrad in that movie, Enemy at the Gates. The atmosphere on that map was AWESOME. I totally agree with your opinion.

  • 06.27.2006 12:57 PM PDT
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I never play BF2, but yes, I want the trailer level!

  • 06.27.2006 7:29 PM PDT

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Evereything in Halo 2 was too bright, and orange-ish..Halo was darker, and everything looked deeper, denser, darker, and less happy. It really helped you into feeling that you were in a struggle to survive.

I would be glad to play that level as long as the gameplay (and enemies) act closer to Halo than Halo 2...also, make the city broken in places..and bring back that Artillery launcher!

We saw one in Halo 2, but it didn't shoot. :-(

  • 06.27.2006 7:56 PM PDT
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Halo 2 did have sort of a glowy feeling. Halo was vibrant, but in the right places. The AOTCR and SC were great outdoor levels with brilliant colors, but then 343 Guilty Spark and The Maw and the game had a dark, bland, and deserted feeling.

  • 06.27.2006 7:59 PM PDT
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I agree. It didn't have the feel of a war-torn city in H2. But I disagree with Sgt. Banks and Cpl. Perez' performance. I think it was very "marine-ish". If you don't believe me, go talk to your local marine unit.

  • 06.27.2006 8:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: Apollyon2119
Damn ur one stupid MotherF**ker Toxic Lag....really I thought u were alot smarter than what u really are.....First of all it is English second of all I didnt say that u said we should fight in the desert...if any thing put on my glasses...hell i'll mail them to u...whatz ur address 123 retard lane? ANywayz u should read before u post cuz what I said wuz they should start off in a remote part of whatz left of New Mombosa and make ur wake to what u see in the trailer...Do u want me to draw out a diagram so that ur putile mind can comprehend that?

Check everything that's underlined, and fix them before trying to insult another person.

  • 06.27.2006 8:08 PM PDT

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