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This topic has moved here: Subject: Was the creation of Spartan 2's, evil?
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Subject: Was the creation of Spartan 2's, evil?

I'm 23, I have a house, dog, girlfriend, job and I have no interest in any fanboyism so if you're thinking about sending me a childish PM, don't be surprised when I don't call back.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: I Judge Bread I
The Spartan program was completely unethical, the end does not justify the means in the slightest.


Tell that to the people of Mamore and Far Isle.


So the UNSC and ONI don't have any military assets at their disposal? There's also the fact that the Insurrectionists wouldn't exist if the Colonies had a good infrastructure in the first place so that people weren't being made poor by the government.

  • 10.07.2012 12:29 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: I Judge Bread I

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: I Judge Bread I
The Spartan program was completely unethical, the end does not justify the means in the slightest.


Tell that to the people of Mamore and Far Isle.


So the UNSC and ONI don't have any military assets at their disposal? There's also the fact that the Insurrectionists wouldn't exist if the Colonies had a good infrastructure in the first place so that people weren't being made poor by the government.


Implying terrorism is an easy threat to break. How do you accurately defeat an opponent who blends in with society and can strike at any time? And please, rebellions began before humanity left the Solar System, mismanagement isn't the first cause. It didn't help matters, but when you nuke civilians your cause loses any sympathy.

  • 10.07.2012 12:32 PM PDT

I'm 23, I have a house, dog, girlfriend, job and I have no interest in any fanboyism so if you're thinking about sending me a childish PM, don't be surprised when I don't call back.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Implying terrorism is an easy threat to break.


When did I imply that?

The Spartans are literally walking tanks, they were very effective in taking down the military side of the Insurrection but they hardly blend in. I would say that ONI is better equipped to take down the Insurrection than any Spartan overall.

  • 10.07.2012 12:42 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: I Judge Bread I

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Implying terrorism is an easy threat to break.


When did I imply that?

The Spartans are literally walking tanks, they were very effective in taking down the military side of the Insurrection but they hardly blend in. I would say that ONI is better equipped to take down the Insurrection than any Spartan overall.



When you asked if the UNSC and ONI had military assets. Why send a large force at an Innie compound when a few Spartans does the job better? If ONI could topple the rebels better than the Spartans, they would not have made them.

  • 10.07.2012 12:54 PM PDT

Friggin deal with it

The initial reason they were created were to fight fellow humans (ie innsurrectionists). Yes they were instumental (especially John) in winning the war against the Covenant, but that does NOT excuse the fact they were created in a sinister manner.

  • 10.07.2012 1:39 PM PDT

Its bad because they kidnapped kids and forced them to fight.

  • 10.07.2012 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: AJF1177
Yes.

Kidnapping children and forcing them to be super soldiers is evil.


I honestly hope that by saying that, you include the S3's as well.

I've seen too many people hate on the S2 project for it's details, and be fine with the S3 project.
Spartan III's were created when the UNSC was already at war with the Covenant.

They were created to buy time, if you've read Ghosts of Oynx then when they're planning out the Spartan III program they say that almost word for word.

I think creating Spartan to ensure Humanity's survival is a reasonable goal. Do I agree with the method? No. Do I agree with the objective? Yes.


Well, I'm just saying plenty of people are pants on head retarded because they go "S2 program and Halsey are soooo evil!"

Then "S3 program is fine. Those guys volunteered/gave consent!" (At around 6 years old? ha.)


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: I Judge Bread I
The Spartan program was completely unethical, the end does not justify the means in the slightest.


Tell that to the people of Mamore and Far Isle.


Indeed, the concept of Spartans allows the UNSC to fight the rebels, but without deploying large numbers of soldiers and gear and resulting in a blood-bath.

  • 10.07.2012 3:23 PM PDT


Posted by: I Judge Bread I
The Spartan program was completely unethical, the end does not justify the means in the slightest.

At least Spartan IV takes volunteers as opposed to kidnapping kids and forcing them into scientific experimentation that killed or crippled a good chunk of them.


So, you'd rather humanity pretty much drive itself to extinction and into a second set of Dark Ages leaving billions upon billions dead in its wake due to a very small minority of the population not getting exactly what they want and throwing a hissy-fit over it and going around killing and slaughtering civilians to try and force what they want to happen be allowed to run rampant. I'm sorry but the actions being committed by the Insurrection completely and totally justifies the creation of the Spartan IIs, it doesn't make it something good, but it's something that had to be done to ensure the survival of humanity. Without the Spartans the vast majority of humanity's 39+ billion population would be left dead and there would be no infrastructure or anything left, humanity would be left in another Dark Age and pretty much have to rebuild itself from the Stone Ages once again.

It seems you don't know what "experimentation" is as you're misusing the term and trying to describe something where it doesn't apply. No humans were experimented on at all, monkeys, chimps specifically, are what all of the augmentations used on the Spartans were tested on. If you know what the results are going to be and aren't seeking to create or find new results, it's not really an experiment. The augmentation process was not in any way shape or form an experiment, that's misusing the term. And you know what, so what if they died or were crippled? They were all fixed afterward by Halsey or worked to be fixed up and revived, even if they couldn't be fielded as a Spartan. They were healed and fixed as much as they possibly could be and given the chance at a normal life again. If they were all just left as they were inured and dead, you would have grounds to complain...but you don't because the washouts of the augmentations were all fixed afterward.

  • 10.07.2012 3:57 PM PDT

Honestly, I couldn't imagine the world of -blam!- the UNSC would be in without them.

  • 10.07.2012 4:08 PM PDT

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Yes, but it was a necessary evil.
Appropriate TKDR quote in context. I agree with you on that.

  • 10.07.2012 4:20 PM PDT

I've really been a member since 2005, this is my seventh account and will surely be my last.

I had different views until I read Glasslands. The novel really explores Halsey and her and chief mendez's involvement and their motives. I think it was wrong, but necessary. They used flash clones when they abducted the kids and the clones died. They trained and tortured the children into soldiers then injected them with so many drugs that left many disfigured.

I honestly wouldn't be able to live with myself after doing that, this is probably why Halsey is the way she is. Stoic and cold to say the least.

  • 10.07.2012 9:49 PM PDT

If the UNSC was able to make clones, why didn't they make thousands of clones for the war?

  • 10.08.2012 2:11 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.

"Islamic Terrorists" you sir are an ignorant bastard aren't you?

Al Qaeda isn't Islam, it does not represent it AT ALL. Look it up, and learn something. They claim it's some branch, or trust Islam. But that is utter crap. Go and ask a Muslim in the USA< and they will deny Al Qaeda is Islam.

Anyways, turning children into soldiers has been done with Spartan times, maybe even before. Spartans in Ancient Greece actually trained from childhood, what you see in 300 isn't completely real, but the stuff about them training from childhood is fact.

kidnapping and turning kids into soldiers is pretty old too... centuries old...

  • 10.08.2012 2:33 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.


Posted by: Custer
If the UNSC was able to make clones, why didn't they make thousands of clones for the war?

Flash clones that died after 2-3 years of "natural causes". So basically, the flash clones are made to die, naturally.

Real proper clones are not possible. The nearest thing is AI. Cortana is a "brain clone" of Dr. Halsey.

  • 10.08.2012 2:34 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Alex the Awesome
"Islamic Terrorists" you sir are an ignorant bastard aren't you?

Al Qaeda isn't Islam, it does not represent it AT ALL. Look it up, and learn something. They claim it's some branch, or trust Islam. But that is utter crap. Go and ask a Muslim in the USA< and they will deny Al Qaeda is Islam.

Anyways, turning children into soldiers has been done with Spartan times, maybe even before. Spartans in Ancient Greece actually trained from childhood, what you see in 300 isn't completely real, but the stuff about them training from childhood is fact.

kidnapping and turning kids into soldiers is pretty old too... centuries old...


As would a Christian with the -blam!-, but both are still technically based on Christian and Islamic roots, for the -blam!- and Al-Qaeda respectively. AQ uses the jihad as its rational however and that is a Muslim practice. Likewise, the -blam!- uses "Biblical Reconstruction" as the basis for their views. Both groups are flawed.

There is no need to get upset for saying "Islamic Terrorists", it's just a more recent example of identifiable terrorism.

  • 10.08.2012 3:49 PM PDT

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