Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Halo 2 Vista Had BETTER Have.....
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Better netcode. Seriously.

I'm sick and -blam!- tired of getting a perfect headshot....only to find that my shot was rejected by the server due to Gearbox's half-assed port.Having to lead your shots takes all the fun out of the game.

  • 06.26.2006 8:13 PM PDT
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No, I need dialup support!

  • 06.26.2006 8:24 PM PDT
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gearbox is gonna be nowhere near this game

  • 06.26.2006 8:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: A10Warthog
gearbox is gonna be nowhere near this game


really well that is good considering i would need to buy a new computer to run it!!!

  • 06.26.2006 9:18 PM PDT

CMT Mod team leader

it was bungie and Microsoft that are the reason halopc had a bad netcode. Gearbox had a lagless one before Microsoft issued them a mandate for 56 k support.

  • 06.26.2006 9:20 PM PDT

CMT Mod team leader

CSS doesnt need a server side netcode, halo does. The server side netcode is needed to keep track of the vehicle locations, If it was client side like CSS, then people would be seeing the same warthog in differnt screen on each computer. Randy Pitchford puts it better than I.

Posted by: Randy Pitchford

Okay, back to Counter-Strike. Another difference is about whether you're going to be Server authoritative or client authoritative.

Halo is mostly server authoritative. There are some things that are only visual or audio related - these are okay to make client authoritative. But, for everything relevant to other players the server is the boss. We were really kind of cornered into that decision because of the game design, but it doesn't matter. There are some merits for it on its own.

Counter-Strike is client authoritative. Here's how this works. The client is simulating the game. You see a guy. You shoot the guy. The client tells the server that you shot the guy. The server says, "Thanks for the info - I'll pass that along to all of the other players." What this means is that from any given client's point of view, when you do something to the world you get the result you expected. When you shoot a guy, the server always trusts your version of the story and that's what happens for everyone in the game. The trade-off, of course, is that when other clients do stuff to you, the server trusts their version of the story. So, in Counter-Strike a frequent scenario is for a player to duck back around a corner and actually be in a safe spot, but get shot anyway. That's because some other client shot at you several hundred milliseconds ago when you were still out in the open (or so the other client says).

Of course, what happened with Counter-Strike is that people figured out how to make their clients lie to the server in such a way that the server trusts them. The lie is, basically, a cheat.

That's not really possible with Halo. Sure, you can hack the server and make the server cheat - but then people just won't play on that server.

But, the lag you see in Halo is front side. The lag in Counter-Strike is back side.

When Gearbox designs its own multiplayer only game, it will be sure to design the game so as to be very friendly to the conditions of the internet, the problems with the speed of light at best or the latency of the current infrastructure at worst.

In this case, the job was to take the existing game and change it to be a client/server system.

This is a monumental effort. Even Counter-Strike: Source is evolved from Counter-Strike's netcode, which is evolved from Half-Life's, which is evolved from Quake 2's which is evolved from Quakeworld's, which is evolved from Quake 1's.

Halo's networking system was from scratch, first generation, developed in six months by three engineers and launched into a very competitive world of PC on-line gaming with a game design that is not condusive to the inherent problems of the internet. This networking system had to be meshed into an existing C code-base that had been evolved over 10 years of Bungie games until, in it's last usage, was completely overhauled, retuned and refitted with bubblegum, duct-tape and infinite sleepless work nights specifically for the Xbox platform (which was being invented while all of this refitting was going on).

To anyone who's actually tried to solve these problems by actually writing workable net code and working with a 10 year old code base that has crossed at least three platforms, what these engineers did is, quite simply, amazing.

I know it's not perfect because it's impossible for it to be perfect.

I want it to be perfect, of course I do.

But I have to be real. I also have to realize that these engineers here who did this work are simply amazing. It just kills me to hear people who don't know anything about software development or network coding to just dismiss the effort with words like "****** netcode". That's simply not accurate.

However, as a user, we don't care. We want the experience we want and we're not happy until we get it.

Yup, I hear ya. Hopefully some information about why things are the way they are will help you cope.

  • 06.26.2006 9:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: OmniosSpartan
Posted by: Masterz1337
it was bungie and Microsoft that are the reason halopc had a bad netcode. Gearbox had a lagless one before Microsoft issued them a mandate for 56 k support.


so thats why almost all modern day FPS's, CS:S, Q4 etc have 56K support, and dont lag?

face it Gearbox can only make excuses, for why it wasnt their fault, and i would like to see a link to a video of this lagless multiplayer, or as far as i'm concered it never existed.


Gearbox had rock solid netcode. Just talk to any of the people who playtested it before launch. BS/MS came in after the deal was signed and mandated it be changed to include 56k support. And I dont know what you're talking about, but I've played CS: S on dial-up and it lagged like hell.

You are right about one thing. GBX can only offer an excuse because it wasn't their title. They were given a job and directions to go by, and they did it. The truth is, the only excuse is the truth in this case.

  • 06.26.2006 9:32 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

Leading shots adds to the skill of the game, in my opinion. Takes more practice. And the reason it doesn't hit may be because, in the PC version at least, it takes time for the bullet to travel from point A to B. A shocking law of motion, I know.

  • 06.26.2006 10:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Johnny Orcface
Better netcode. Seriously.

I'm sick and -blam!- tired of getting a perfect headshot....only to find that my shot was rejected by the server due to Gearbox's half-assed port.Having to lead your shots takes all the fun out of the game.


Don't count on it. Halo 2 itself seems to have poor net-code IMO. I can play the new 360 games and never have problems with lag. I get on Halo 2 and nothing works because of lag (shotgun, ext).

  • 06.26.2006 10:55 PM PDT

CMT Mod team leader

gbx didn't have control when they launched it, it was a MS choice.

Edit: planetside was based on the idea of it being online for tha tmany people. Halo 1 was designed with 4 xbox's on LAN, a much differern't engine powered halo than the one for planetside.

[Edited on 6/26/2006]

  • 06.26.2006 11:00 PM PDT

CMT Mod team leader

If you were a game company would YOU say no to the legendary bungie and the super rich Microsoft. And I believe Microsoft had the final say on when it would be released.

  • 06.26.2006 11:25 PM PDT
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Even then, Gearbox screwed up the port in other ways, like not optimizing Halo for PC gaming, thus making it a system hog.

Don't get me wrong, although I don't mind it much, it sucks that people have to lead their shots, even their melees.

Halo 2 PC will probably have an improved netcode and you hopefully won't need to lead. Let's all hope that H2 PC will be superior to the Xbox version. And if isn't, well at least it will be in graphics power.

Due to the fact that Halo operates on a Synchronous networking model there can be a large amount of lag due to the round trip flow of information. While two xbox's are playing Halo they are both operating in a deterministic world evolving by their actions predicated upon one another. The joining player's actions are carried out immediately and are rendered in relation to the Server (host) xbox. While the joining players reticule may be showing the location his bullets should be landing due to the round trip latency his bullets will be landing at a slightly later time within the game. Add in character motion and your bullets will lagging behind the player you are shooting. This can cause an unfair advantage for the host xbox and create problems effectively fighting for the client xbox. This problem can appear even more severe in up-close bombat with weapons such as a shotgun or plasma rifle. However with skill and planning the latency issue can often be overcome. Over medium to long distances (red base to blue base on Hang 'em High) a player can estimate the lag he is experiencing (based on current bullet lag pattern) and adjust to shoot and kill effectively. I feel the ability to learn and understand how much a player is lagging is a very important fact which allows experienced players to compete with lag. Due to the fact that the player can understand how much they are lagging, they are able to compensate for the lag.
Now, just take the word "Xbox" out, and you basically have Halo PC. This is why the netcode sucks, because Halo wasn't originally designed for online play.

  • 06.27.2006 4:51 AM PDT
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Ditto! But alas, they didn't do it.

I just hope Halo 2 Vista will look awesome on the PC. Surely the graphics should be superior to what a five year old console can make in Halo 2.

  • 06.27.2006 8:16 AM PDT
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As well as missing fundimentals out, like AFK kick. I know I keep banging on about it, but its so basic, its been in every single FPS game Ive ever encountered.

Gearbox gave a really crap excuse for that. 'We would, but people would only find a way around it'.

Bungie are as much to blame as gearbox and microsoft.

How tired am I of seeing 2 or 3 AFK people just sitting in games for hours on end, making the game unbalenced?

And dont tell me to find another server. If your in the UK, finding an unmodded, 16 player server playing CTF with a decent ping and players in it isnt easy.

  • 06.27.2006 8:49 AM PDT
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Even if Gearbox isn't doing H2, they (or someone) should still do a CE like HaloPC. And maybe unarmed combat, it's so stupid that MC can't use his fists without a weapon. He uses them with the plasma pistol anyway.

[Edited on 6/29/2006]

  • 06.29.2006 9:27 PM PDT
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Gearbox should stick to brothers in arms and making expantion packs, Brothers in Arms is fun, and has anyone played Blue Shift or Opposing Force? Those are some good games.

  • 06.29.2006 10:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
Ditto! But alas, they didn't do it.

I just hope Halo 2 Vista will look awesome on the PC. Surely the graphics should be superior to what a five year old console can make in Halo 2.
If a game is taking advantage of a dirextX 10 video cards that isn't even out yet, I'm sure the graphics are better then a xbox.

  • 06.30.2006 1:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
I just hope Halo 2 Vista will look awesome on the PC. Surely the graphics should be superior to what a five year old console can make in Halo 2.


Halo 2 Vista WILL have better graphics. Just think, if Halo 2 on Microsoft's next gen OS with the next gen DX10 can't crank out better graphics than a five year old console, that'll make them look bad.

  • 06.30.2006 5:16 AM PDT
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Ugh, I'm dying for some screenshots of Halo 2 PC...

  • 06.30.2006 5:17 AM PDT
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But the thing is, how will DX10 make Halo 2 PC look better, sure it'll add effects and make the game overall look better, but the real factors, are the resolution, the level of detail, and the textures.

  • 06.30.2006 6:30 PM PDT

1337 dance moves
Posted by: Death2BlueCheese
im afraid im gonna have to confiscate your testicles.

What are you, the Cyber police? lol.

You're boring me.....

Omg haloman dont be ignorant and actually think what microsoft vista will do, create more graphics, have smoother game play, and much more that I dont even know about because they havent put in their notables yet! Its called Google

[Edited on 6/30/2006]

  • 06.30.2006 6:34 PM PDT

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