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Subject: Bungie Bitter?

I don't think that Bungie is/was bitter to give Halo up. In the bonus videos of the Halo 3 Limited/Legendary Edition it seemed more like they were kind of fed up with Halo. They certainly didn't hesitate when they had the choice between developing Halo for the rest of their life or becoming independant.

  • 10.17.2012 2:26 PM PDT

Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


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Thread saved for later (best thread i've seen here for a long time).

  • 10.17.2012 5:21 PM PDT

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." - Greek Proverb


Posted by: Simjon4two
I don't think that Bungie is/was bitter to give Halo up. In the bonus videos of the Halo 3 Limited/Legendary Edition it seemed more like they were kind of fed up with Halo. They certainly didn't hesitate when they had the choice between developing Halo for the rest of their life or becoming independant.


Agreed.

I'm enjoying 343i enthusiastic approach to Halo, it's apparent in everything I've seen recently from H4 game play vids to FuD to the the details and "nods" to halo lore in the recent Scanner trailer.


[Edited on 10.20.2012 1:33 AM PDT]

  • 10.20.2012 1:32 AM PDT

i can't understand people who hate that 343 are adding some things and also hate that the covenant are still around.

halo 4 + nothing new - covenant = ... flood mongoose racing? O_o


i'm glad that people who enjoy and care about both the story and game play are continuing to make halo games. I bet a lot of Bungie people are, too.

  • 10.20.2012 2:44 AM PDT
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No one is hating on 343 Industries for anything. My posts were about the original question about whether Bungie is happy or sad and possibly bitter.

Yes a different company will bring a different approach and ideology to Halo. Just like Retro Studios brought a different approach to Donkey Kong and Metroid.

But isn't it more likely, that while Bungie may shout from the rooftops that they are glad 343 Industries is carrying the mantle forward, that probably a significant amount of the employees at Bungie wished Halo remained with the studio? So that they could revisit it later on their own time and tell the stories they wanted to tell?

Do you remember when the Halo film fell through? There was significant chatter about Bungie and Microsoft being at odds with how the franchise should be carried or run. Now it's been a while since Bungie has relinquished total control and for the foreseeable future, they will be busy with "The New Hotness(TM)", but it doesn't mean they wanted another studio to take the IP they created over 10 years, what studio would?

If Bungie employees wanted to keep making Halo games now or carrying the studio forward, they would have. They didn't want to, which is precisely why they wanted to become independent again. If you don't want to think of the studio as a collective whole, then even individual employees, why didn't they jump ship to 343 Industries when it came to halo?

A misconception around forums is that 343 Industries is made up of Bungie staff who loved Halo and wanted to keep making it. So far I can only count three former Bungie employees now working there. Frank O'Connor, Chad Armstrong (Shishka) and Vic DeLeon. Of these three, none of them worked on Halo:CE and I believe Frank was only community manager.

An analogy I like to use, is JK Rowling and the Harry Potter series. Now the harry potter series is effectively finished. It is perhaps the highest grossing film and literature series in history. Now while JK Rowling sold the rights to Harry Potter for everything from toys to films to amusement parks. She retained any/all rights associated with the book.

Let's say she was "down on her luck" again and forced to relinquish literary control of the Harry Potter series. Would she truly be happy if some other author comes and writes a new chapter in the series? Starts a whole new story? What about if Warner Bros. makes a new film that establishes a whole new story?

Why is it any different for Bungie? Yes Bungie isn't an individual. But collectively, Bungie as an entity spent over 12 years making Halo what it is.

To add to this point, did anyone here read the interview with Tony Goodman, founder of former Ensemble Studios that made Halo Wars?

He stated that Bungie was not happy the Halo brand was being used for a different genre. He said, "another problem was that Bungie was never up for it... Bungie was kind of sore about the idea". Now yes this was when Bungie was still working on ODST and Reach at this point, but it shows how Bungie was protective of it's IP and didn't want it in the hands of a new studio.

So, I'll end my rambling here yet again, but my final point is, IP's don't need to have a new game every year or two to be relevant to a studio. How many years did Nintendo go before making a new Star Fox, Metroid game? What about Earthbound? Just because Nintendo doesn't make/commission a new Earthbound game, means another studio should and that Nintendo would be happy about it.

Ask any founder, developer in the industry. No studio wants to share IP's with another, and no studio wants to see an IP as big as Halo, an IP that basically made Bungie, that rivals some of the world's greatest gaming franchises, in the hands of another studio.

Also tell me something,how happy do you think Bungie should be to see their own game franchise possibly go up against their own new franchise? Halo 4 may come out now, while Bungie's new game is Soon(TM). What about next gen?

I think it would be the greatest insult for Halo to go up against bungie's new franchise, and probably even outsell it.

  • 10.20.2012 5:24 AM PDT
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Wort, wort, wort!

The only bitterness I could think of is 343/Microsoft taking the franchise in a way different path, that Bungie doesn't like or whatever. Or the decrease in quality that WILL come, someday when MS will had milked Halo to it's bare bones. Other than that, I think most of Bungie employees are happy to be independant and do what THEY want, not what they are told.

  • 10.20.2012 5:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Sp4rksLT
The only bitterness I could think of is 343/Microsoft taking the franchise in a way different path, that Bungie doesn't like or whatever. Or the decrease in quality that WILL come, someday when MS will had milked Halo to it's bare bones. Other than that, I think most of Bungie employees are happy to be independant and do what THEY want, not what they are told.


Yes, but Bungie would have preferred to do what they want and not what they are told, while still holding onto the rights for Halo.

Just because they were tired of developing for it, didn't mean they wanted to lose any/all rights to it and let a rival studio develop it.

  • 10.20.2012 5:33 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Your Harry Potter analogy doesn't work. Harry Potter was completely finished, the story was resolved and there was a lot of closure to that series.

Halo 3 left a dozen major plot points dangling with many being intorduced in the last mission. There was absolutely no closure, except for the illusion of closure when John goes into cryo. The story of Halo 3 made Halo 4 inevitable.

And here's the thing, it's clear they've deliberately done this for someone else to pick up on, since the plan was to break away from Microsoft and start anew after 2007, the same year 343i was created - it was the renewal of Bungie's contract which allowed them to make ODST and Reach before they finally bowed out of the picture.

  • 10.20.2012 5:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
Your Harry Potter analogy doesn't work. Harry Potter was completely finished, the story was resolved and there was a lot of closure to that series.

Halo 3 left a dozen major plot points dangling with many being intorduced in the last mission. There was absolutely no closure, except for the illusion of closure when John goes into cryo. The story of Halo 3 made Halo 4 inevitable.

And here's the thing, it's clear they've deliberately done this for someone else to pick up on, since the plan was to break away from Microsoft and start anew after 2007, the same year 343i was created - it was the renewal of Bungie's contract which allowed them to make ODST and Reach before they finally bowed out of the picture.


You only believe that Halo 3 left a lot of things unfinished because you look at it in hindsight from future games and info. With the effective end of the Covenant, and the removal of the main threat humanity faced, the story should have ended for the time being.

Yes, anything could arise in the future. But Chief was drifting in space for who knows how many years. In the end, we see it enter near a planet. But who's to say that it hadn't been hundreds to thousands of years at that point?

And the only reason is because in 2006 when they finished up the Halo 3 story for release in 2007, Bungie wanted to end Halo in a way that the main story is done so they could focus on other aspects, but to leave it a little ambiguous for the future.

What major plot points were left unfinished after Halo 3? The tidbits are anecdotal on what you, as a fan, wanted to know more about. I only used Harry Potter as an example, but you could apply it to almost any large franchise with a somewhat deep story.

Anyways, I guess my point has been made, hopefully others realize what I mean somewhat.

As for Harry Potter, JK Rowling has stated in interviews she purposely added that little "epilogue" at the end so that it gives readers some closure as she focuses on other things. But is the story really finished? I could think of a dozen+ things I'd need answered for it still.

  • 10.20.2012 9:44 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Madness87
You only believe that Halo 3 left a lot of things unfinished because you look at it in hindsight from future games and info.


It's a matter of some contention to me that you assume this when I've been arguing that Halo 4 was inevitable ever since I finished Halo 3.

With the effective end of the Covenant, and the removal of the main threat humanity faced, the story should have ended for the time being.

No.

1) The Covenant has been identified as simply a MacGuffin for the real threat - the Forerunner legacy and the Flood. Halo CE-3 were constantly building towards the opening up of the larger picture.

2) Even in Halo 3, there are a number of hints which imply that the Covenant weren't defeated. Again, it's the illusion of closure you're taking at face value - Cortana's "it's finished" line. It's not, and anyone who paid attention to Halo 3 knows this.

Yes, anything could arise in the future. But Chief was drifting in space for who knows how many years. In the end, we see it enter near a planet. But who's to say that it hadn't been hundreds to thousands of years at that point?

This point is utterly irrelevant. The passage of time he may or may not have been in space is irrelevant, we know what he was heading for because Mendicant Bias outright told us in the final Terminal.

And the only reason is because in 2006 when they finished up the Halo 3 story for release in 2007, Bungie wanted to end Halo in a way that the main story is done so they could focus on other aspects, but to leave it a little ambiguous for the future.

What they wanted to do is irrelevant, since it's clear that they didn't do it.

What major plot points were left unfinished after Halo 3? The tidbits are anecdotal on what you, as a fan, wanted to know more about.

Note: * refers to plot points introduced/left hanging in Halo 3. (credit to Roberto for this comprehensive list I've altered.)

*1) 6 of the 7 Halo rings are still primed and ready to fire - a shadow that will forever loom over the Halo universe as long as it's unresolved.

*2) The Gravemind tells us that defeat at Installation 04B only delays his return at the end of Halo 3.

*3) Medicant Bias virtually screams to the player that the Chief's story is not done, informing us that:

*4) The Forerunners are not dead...

*5) ...and that the path to the Forerunners is "frought with peril," suggesting a new threat.

*6) No explanation whatsoever was given to these mysterious new beings referenced by the Didact called the Precursors. Later forming the basis of Greg Bear's 'cosmic game' in the Forerunner Saga, and which we now know is feeding directly into Halo 4.

*7) Nor was any explanation given as to what "following in their footsteps" means when the Didact started talking about the Great Journey he will go on after he fires the Halos.

*7.1) Therefore, The Great Journey does in fact exist, but has been misinterpretted by the Prophets. What is the Journey, and what is the signifigance?

8) Mankind has yet to uphold their destiny as the guardians of the universe (as mankind's destiny is the entire thematic point of the series, not continuing the story would mean voiding the relevance of the franchise as a story). This forms the thematic basis for the Reclaimer Trilogy, as the name itself implies. The Reclamation period has begun.

9) We do not know if humanity can survive the inevitable tensions between the Covenant client races, the Elites, and themselves.

*10) We did not know (at the time, until Cryptum) what made humanity so special and worth saving in the eyes of Librarian. She said that we held the answer to many Forerunner secrets.

*11) Cortana, who holds the largest wealth of Forerunner knowledge in the universe aside from the Forerunners themselves, is slowly drifting into insanity. How can anyone claim that Halo 3 provided any kind of satisfying closure when we spend the whole game building up to her rescue only for her to be discarded and left to rot into insanity half an hour later?

*12) And finally, Master Chief, the selected messenger of Medicant Bias, is drifting near an unknown Forerunner world at the very end of Halo 3.

The novels have since added plenty of substance to these plot points and have developed them to set up answers in the Reclaimer Trilogy.

  • 10.20.2012 10:40 AM PDT

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