- Spartan1995324
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Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Spartan1995324
Yeah, sure, except for the fact, that, yah know...it IS canon despite what you want. 343i says it's canon, it's canon. Besides not every single Elite hates humans, a large chunk are just scared that Humanity will seek revenge.
If an author refuses to do their research and changes and switches things around as much as they want with no concern for how things actually were (and Traviss has actually stated that that's what she does, she refuses to read any books, play any games, or watch anything having to do with a series she writes for, and she changes characters as she sees fit) then I have no obligation to regard their changes as canon, the only ones who can do as they wish are the actual developers and creative control for the series, such as 343i or Bungie (though anything 343i does is superseded by the actual creators of the whole thing, IE Bungie themselves)...anything a third party does is beneath the works of the developers, and Traviss contradicts Bungie's work, therefore not canon, 343i has not stated anything for themselves about this, but even if they did agree completely with Traviss it still wouldn't be canon as it's defying what the creators of the series were doing. And not I didn't say that the Glasslands Trilogy was completely not canon, merely Traviss interpretations...the facts (such as Parangosky captures Halsey, Infinity being around, SIVs, the Servants of Abiding Truth attempting to revolt against the Arbiter, Jul getting captured by Parangoksy's evil little stooges and escaping to eventually found the Storm Faction, the stuff like that) are canon...things like every single Elite ever hating humans, or Mendez hates Halsey, or Halsey is a simpering, pathetic wimp who's a massive glutton for punishment and masochist, are not.
Except that the book doesn't address that at all. It makes it quite clear in no uncertain terms that every single Elites except for the Arbiter hates the human race, even the ones who are supposed to be on Thel's side, they only want peace in order to build up to wage a war of extermination again...you even have Phillips (the supposed expert on Elites) saying that every single one hates humanity.343 stated that what she does is canon. I'm sorry you feel that way but it is. I'm not saying all her decisions are good, I'm merely saying that when you discuss canon (such as in a forum like this) you must consider ALL canon. Not pick and choose.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Spartan1995324
Posted by: OrderedComa
Brutes had very little ships, the amount of ships that they were put in charge of, in comparison to the total amount in the Covenant Empire and what the Elites held, were utterly minuscule. That's why I said the Elites held practically 99% of the Covenant ships, it was an exaggeration though, I don't think that was the literal amount of ships they had, just waaaaay more than the Brutes do or ever did.Where is your source for the number of ships the Brutes were given? There is nothing to suggest that the Prophets DIDN'T give them a vast majority of their ships.
If the Prophets were trying to replace the Elites with the Brutes, wouldn't it make sense to give their new protectors as much military strength as possible?
The Elites held the majority of ships. The Elites were replaced with Brutes. Therefore, the Brutes now hold the majority of ships.
Think about this logically, man, I mean come on. Do you even know how huge and vast the Covenant Empire is? ...and the amount of ships and military commanders they'd need to police it? Replacing all of the Elites with Brutes instantly is completely unfeasible, it's an impossibility. It could have been done eventually over time, which Truth didn't have as he started pretty much right before the Great Schism began. There is not enough time for the Brutes to take the dominant position...and if every single Elite or the majority of them were removed, the Schism would have started then and there as the Prophets would be breaking the very bond that set the alliance between the Prophets and Elites up in the first place (Prophets would manage all things religion, and the Elites would be their defenders). Remember how the Elites were threatening to resign from the Council and defect over the Honor Guards being replaced with Brutes? ...now, imagine that ten-fold. Phasing Brutes into more power would have to be a gradual thing, most ships they got from the Schism were by commandeering Elite ships or were ships straight from the ship-yards that had Truth been putting Brutes in charge of.The Prophets ordered a genocide. I don't think they cared much about the Write of Union at that point.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Spartan1995324
Right thing to do? Had the Elites not been betrayed they would have followed through with the genocide of humanity.
Sure some Elites began to question the Prophets, but they didn't do anything. Maybe the Sangheili would have revolted, but it would have either been too late, or nobody else would side with them since they would be the "bad guys" for starting it.
And as we can see from Glasslands and the Thursday War, clearly not every Elite wants to help the Humans now that the Covenant is gone. They did what they had to do and want nothing more to do with Humanity, unless it is crushing them.
An entire species cannot have the same opinion unless they are a hive mind, which makes them dull and boring as individuals.
Yeah, because they didn't know they were being lied to. They had begun to wonder why humans hadn't been offered a place in the Covenant, but they had nothing to tell them that the Prophets were liars and had made the whole war up as a grab for power and an attempt to hold onto it...that was only found out once the Schism had begun.
As I said already, Traviss opinion and portrayal of Elite society in that particular aspect of their opinions on humanity are not canon. If they were, then 343i wouldn't have made the Storm Faction, they would have simply just called it the Covenant and treated it as a revival of our old enemies, as opposed to something entirely new and not a separate faction from the mainstream Elites. Traviss went overboard and consequently broke canon.
I never said every single one, I said majority (that does not mean, nor has ever meant, all of something, just simply the most numerous). I don't think it odd or canon breaking at all having guys like Jul or the Servants of Abiding Truth...my problem is exactly what you think is my opinion on the Elites. Traviss is treating them like a hivemind and making every single one except for the Arbiter hate humans...which is not supported and backed up by previous canon. As I said, the majority of the Elites are human sympathizers, or humans aren't a big deal to them one way or the other, they don't want to go to war or attempt to exterminate them again, but they don't care if an alliance is formed or not. If one is "oh well", if one isn't "oh well". The minority are the ones like Jul, the Servants of Abiding Truth, or the Storm Faction who want to depose the Arbiter and attempt to wipe out humanity again.343i has stated they wanted to make an integrated story. Therefore they need to consider the books as well, making them canon. For all we know, the Storm could be like a "Mini Covenant" except without Brutes and Prophets. The Elites run the show now. That is most certainly what it seems like. It's different from the Covenant, despite having the same belief regarding Humans.
Also I highly doubt Karen Travis has explored every single Elite on the planet. Perhaps she is merely concentrated on the "bad" Elites, which IS a mistake (I think).