- Spartan1995324
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Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Spartan1995324
Wrong on two points.
2) Many Elites still want to kill humanity. From what I hear about the Thursday War, it's a large chunk.
...Yeah, sure, except for the fact, that, yah know, that isn't canon. Traviss didn't do any of her research on the characters, factions, species, and so on, so a great deal of informal things in the Glasslands Trilogy aren't canon, such as every single Elite ever hates humans, or all of her spiels on the Spartan Program, or for instance Mendez hates Halsey. The only things canon and true are such things like, Parangosky captured and imprisoned Halsey, Jul founds/becomes the leader of the Storm Covenant due to Auv Med Telcam attempting to stage a revolution against the Arbiter...stuff like that.
Yeah, sure, except for the fact, that, yah know...it IS canon despite what you want. 343i says it's canon, it's canon. Besides not every single Elite hates humans, a large chunk are just scared that Humanity will seek revenge.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Spartan1995324
However they have the capacity to finish us off, which is why some Elites want to do it now.
You're right. I forgot about the quarantine around Installtion 05. My bad.
However the Prophets did put the Brutes in control and therefore gave them a vast chunk of ships.
I wouldn't say the Elites have 99% though. The Prophets commanded the Covenant, so the ships that were transferred to Brutes (which was probably a lot since they wanted the Elites to have a lot less power) stayed that way.
If the Elites DID have 99% of the Covenant Fleet I don't know why they didn't just solo the Loyalists on their own? Why even bother working with the UNSC?
I think they worked with the UNSC because they needed more numbers, implying that they didn't have 99% of the fleet
Brutes had very little ships, the amount of ships that they were put in charge of, in comparison to the total amount in the Covenant Empire and what the Elites held, were utterly minuscule. That's why I said the Elites held practically 99% of the Covenant ships, it was an exaggeration though, I don't think that was the literal amount of ships they had, just waaaaay more than the Brutes do or ever did.Where is your source for the number of ships the Brutes were given? There is nothing to suggest that the Prophets DIDN'T give them a vast majority of their ships.
If the Prophets were trying to replace the Elites with the Brutes, wouldn't it make sense to give their new protectors as much military strength as possible?
The Elites held the majority of ships. The Elites were replaced with Brutes. Therefore, the Brutes now hold the majority of ships.
Posted by: OrderedComa
The whole point of the Elites joining up with the UNSC was to reflect their changed position and all of the character growth and evolution Bungie had been doing with them as a species. They joined with humanity because it was what was right to do.Right thing to do? Had the Elites not been betrayed they would have followed through with the genocide of humanity.
Sure some Elites began to question the Prophets, but they didn't do anything. Maybe the Sangheili would have revolted, but it would have either been too late, or nobody else would side with them since they would be the "bad guys" for starting it.
And as we can see from Glasslands and the Thursday War, clearly not every Elite wants to help the Humans now that the Covenant is gone. They did what they had to do and want nothing more to do with Humanity, unless it is crushing them.
An entire species cannot have the same opinion unless they are a hive mind, which makes them dull and boring as individuals.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Wolverfrog
The Sangheili have very few ships, in truth. Most of the separatist forces were destroyed by Admiral Whitcomb's NOVA bomb shortly after they broke away from the Covenant (but still intended to kill us.) The few that survived were wiped out by Sentinels at Onyx.
The only ones that remained then blockaded Delta Halo and High Charity, trying to quarantine the Flood. Unfortunately, the Flood evolved. When the Flood ship escapes to Earth in Halo 3, the remainder of the Sangheili fleet jumps after it.
The Arbiter questions a Sangheili who drops in, and when told the Flood broke the blockade, he protests: "But we had a fleet of hundreds!"
To which the Sangheili replies: "Alas, my brother, the Flood - it has evolved!"
The implication there as far as I'm aware is that the Flood evolved and managed to defeat the Sangheili fleet; the ones that arrive at Earth are all that's left - which is why they're forced to go to the Ark with such a small force that they're outnumbered 3:1. I'm sure there are a few more at Sanghelios and the colonies, but I doubt the Sangheili even have a hundred ships - in no way, shape or form do they have most of the Covenant fleet at their command.
Xytan Jar Wattinree's fleet that got destroyed by the NOVA Bomb is barely a dent in the whole of the Covenant's ships, which as I said, the majority were held by the Elites. So many people seem to not comprehend how vast the amount of space the Covenant controlled was and how many colonies they had and so on...they'd need so many more ships than most people think they have. I mean, for instance, there were at least a hundred thousand ships around High Charity alone.
And no, R'tas fleet was not all that remained of the one around High Charity and Delta Halo, that was a battle-group sent to hunt down the one ship. The defenses weren't destroyed, the one ship that got away was simply able to run the gauntlet and manage to escape. Or multiple ships managed to force their way through and portions of the fleet were broken off in order to hunt them down and stop them...the only thing the Gravemind has when it finally arrives at the Ark is High Charity, which to me says that he had next to no ships to begin with, thus nothing to even scratch the fleets quarantining the space station and Halo.
As I said, R'tas "fleet" was a small battlegroup sent after the one ship, that's why Truth's fleet outnumbered the good guys at the Ark. The rest were out fighting the other ships belonging to the Loyalists that weren't at Earth or the Ark, and the majority grouping on High Charity and Delta Halo to quarantine them and prevent the escape of the Flood. Covenant held space is utterly massive, the war with Humanity would have hardly put a dent in the amount of ships and fleets that they had...especially since the war was about 30 years long and hundreds of ships can be cranked out to those lost almost as soon as they are lost. Everyone seems to be thinking so small when it comes to the Covenant, they weren't a small-fry empire like the UNSC, they controlled a great deal of the local (in terms of lightyears) areas of the galaxy...you don't do that with very little military strength.We are not discussing the entire size of the Covenant Fleet. We are discussing who had more ships, Elites or Brutes.
The number of ships could 10 or 1 000 000 000 000 000 000, but whoever had the MOST has the majority, no matter the number.
[Edited on 10.20.2012 6:49 PM PDT]