Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Do you think aliens really exist?
  • Subject: Do you think aliens really exist?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: Do you think aliens really exist?
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

THat is true (and a restatement in a different light) if you're going by the rule: Life is an accident

  • 09.30.2004 10:16 AM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

And yet it's preordered, the universe can only unfold one way -- So this conversation wasn't our choice -- so life as we currently think is probably not correct.

  • 09.30.2004 10:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Pre-ordered as in somebody set things up yes, that they are th jerking our every string every second like a puppet, not quite...

  • 09.30.2004 10:22 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
And yet it's preordered, the universe can only unfold one way -- So this conversation wasn't our choice -- so life as we currently think is probably not correct.


And that is extremely screwed up. It's what I hate to wrap my mind around, thinking the universe can only unfold one way. I have so much choice, I could do anything I want. Yet I only do one, and that was supposed to happen?

What would knowing the future be like? Say, I knew that I was going to do something. But I still have free choice, don't I? Couldn't I stop myself from doing it?

  • 09.30.2004 10:27 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Blackmarch
THat is true (and a restatement in a different light) if you're going by the rule: Life is an accident


What rule do you go by?

  • 09.30.2004 10:27 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Life is not an accident- someone/intelligence had to bring it about somehow...

  • 09.30.2004 10:38 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Becuase the universe is INFINITY... im willing to believe, that there is intelligent life forms, in every direction you look, wether it be a few metres away, or 600 billion light years.... Rock and Roll is ere to stay!

  • 09.30.2004 11:47 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Hey hey, my my!

  • 09.30.2004 11:48 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

It would be ignorant to think earth is the only rock that supports life, wouldnt it?

  • 09.30.2004 11:56 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: dopey Doyle
Becuase the universe is INFINITY... im willing to believe, that there is intelligent life forms, in every direction you look, wether it be a few metres away, or 600 billion light years.... Rock and Roll is ere to stay!


Same here, number of intelligent life forms= multibillions x 10 to <big freakin huge number> power. Hope we don't have to look too far...

FYI: NASA is currently worried about the microbes and bacteria that we are sending to other planets like mars.

[Edited on 9/30/2004 12:00:01 PM]

  • 09.30.2004 11:59 AM PDT

bah

Posted by: Stickman Army
I suppose, well, it should be possible. But, how would life start? You can have all the elements and correct molecules, but how does something just.... start living?

All life today is created by branching off something already living. A cell seperates into two, and they were already living. What I don't get, is: How did it start? How does a material suddenly start living?
A very good question, and one that requires a very solid understanding of chemistry to fully understand. I could explain the basics to everyone, but you better know something about probability. In other words, if I flip a coin once every second for a billion years, what are the odds that 50 tails would come up in a row?

A: The odds are infinitely large that it would happen at least once. The only thing that can make highly improbable events occur (such as life) is time.

[Edited on 10/1/2004 5:56:26 AM]

  • 09.30.2004 12:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: The Rip Saw
Posted by: Stickman Army
I suppose, well, it should be possible. But, how would life start? You can have all the elements and correct molecules, but how does something just.... start living?

All life today is created by branching off something already living. A cell seperates into two, and they were already living. What I don't get, is: How did it start? How does a material suddenly start living?
A very good question, and one that requires a very solid understanding of chemistry to fully understand. I could explain the basics to everyone, but you better know something about probability. In other words, if I flip a coin once every second for a billion years, what are the odds that an hour would go by with no heads?

A: The odds are infinitely large that it would happen at least once. The only thing that can make highly improbable events occur (such as life) is time.


Indeed. I wouldn't mind hearing your explanation. Even though my knowledge of chemistry is some what limited, I'll probably understand it. And I do know about probability.

[Edited on 3/5/2005 7:59:56 PM]

  • 09.30.2004 12:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I do belive.Who knows mabye in the year 2550 covenent might take over the Earth.

  • 09.30.2004 12:37 PM PDT

bah

Posted by: Stickman Army
Even though my knowledge of chemistry is some what limited due to me being in Grade 10, and schools are directed to average, stupid people, I might be able to understand it. I'm usually good at such things. And I do know about probability.
To fully comprehend how life formed, you need the chemistry. I don't have the chemistry knowledge to know the specifics of it. But to understand how life can form, all you need is to understand that time can make unlikely things happen. So here goes:

We all know about natural selection. No matter what you believe, natural selection is a real life process that is occurring right now. The weakest animals are getting eaten, the stronger animals are winning the rights to breed, the smarter animals protect their young better so they live, etc... Natural selection as pertaining to life means the best animals get to breed and thus pass on their genes. The ones who die before mating don’t. Plain and simple.

But natural selection does not only pertain to life. The smartest people go to college, the strongest athlete wins the gold, the most beautiful person gets the date. Natural selection is a process that does not require life at all to work. Natural selection is the best item winning out over others. It’s because this item has a better probability of survival than others.

How does this relate to life forming? Well, life could never form spontaneously. The odds of a single strand of DNA forming spontaneously out of the materials are so impossibly high that even time might not ever make it happen. There are too many base pairs of genetic code. Thus, DNA did not form spontaneously.

Let us suppose we have a computer program, not very complex at all, but just enough to make it have the capacity to use the computer. Now, in this program, we have entered in some random code. We run the program and discover this random code acts in a way that it destroys the program. This program has failed to “live.” Now, suppose another program has code that does nothing. This program lives, but fails to do anything for itself. Now, suppose a third program has code that copies itself. Ah, now we have a program that will replicate.

The same goes for chemicals. There are certain chemicals that cause replication of themselves. You can dissolve some crystals in water and then chill the water. Not until you place another crystal in the water will the chemical condense onto itself. This is one example. There is a certain protein that will cause itself to replicate in the brain too. These are not alive at all, but they can replicate themselves.

So what does this have to do with life? In the early stages of Earth, there were compounds known as amino acids. The Earth’s oceans were literally a soup of these acids. Now, with a big soup of chemicals, and lots of ultra-violet radiation from the sun (the sun was very young then) there were chemical reactions occurring all the time. There was plenty of energy from the sun to make chemicals form randomly. Some of these chemicals lasted longer than others, and some even formed that could cause more of that chemical to form. Eventually, one chemical formed that could easily replicate itself, ribonucleic acid.

This chemical is also known as RNA, and can be found in your body. Basically, it’s a half strand of DNA. This strand of RNA was tiny. The odds of a big strand forming would have been too much, but a tiny strand could form. This piece of RNA would float around, and if the right combination of chemicals was near it, they would connect to it. Once enough chemicals were connected, they would separate from the RNA, and there would be an identical piece of RNA floating around. (Almost identical. It would actually be opposite to the first piece. But if it happened to the second piece too, that new piece would be identical to the first. Knowledge of chemistry helps here.)

This piece of RNA makes many copies of itself randomly over time. Now, some of these copies aren’t perfect copies. They have little differences here and there. Maybe a chemical got cut out or added or changed. Some of these mutations were bad. They couldn’t replicate any longer or were easily destroyed by the sun’s violent rays. Others were better. They could replicate with relative ease and weren’t as affected by the sun. The best mutations from each generation would be the ones to live each time. They would live and replicate.’

Eventually, these pieces of RNA get so long and complex they are easily broken. They have no protection form the elements. Now, I don’t have the knowledge of chemistry to tell you this step, but somehow there were also little bubbles floating around. Maybe a piece of RNA had the coding to make the basic building blocks for these bubbles, maybe they also formed spontaneously, but there were little bubbles. These bubbles were made of materials similar to the ones that make your cells. A piece of RNA makes it’s way into a bubble, and gets the protection it needs to form more and more complex iterations of itself.

From here, it’s all natural selection. The pieces of RNA that destroy their bubbles die, and the pieces that make proteins that keep their bubbles in tact live. This first step happened over billions of years. After a few million years of refinement, the first proper cell emerged. I could explain those in between processes too, but that would require a prodigious amount of either chemistry, or similar analogies. That would also require a bit of my time, which I am running out of as I have work in less than 2 hours and have stuff I need to get done. I hope this little explanation helps you to understand how you can get something out of nothing if you have enough time.

It’s all about survival of the most probable molecule.

  • 09.30.2004 1:17 PM PDT

bah

Please note 2 things:
1. I am not saying this is exactly how it happened. This is only one theory on how. There are also theories involving meteors and the like, but this theory is more likely to happen.
2. This is also just a theory on how life can form. Not necessarily life on Earth, or, more specifically, humans. You don’t need to believe in evolution to understand how life could form elsewhere.

  • 09.30.2004 1:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: The Rip Saw
Posted by: Stickman Army
Even though my knowledge of chemistry is some what limited due to me being in Grade 10, and schools are directed to average, stupid people, I might be able to understand it. I'm usually good at such things. And I do know about probability.
To fully comprehend how life formed, you need the chemistry. I don't have the chemistry knowledge to know the specifics of it. But to understand how life can form, all you need is to understand that time can make unlikely things happen. So here goes:

We all know about natural selection. No matter what you believe, natural selection is a real life process that is occurring right now. The weakest animals are getting eaten, the stronger animals are winning the rights to breed, the smarter animals protect their young better so they live, etc... Natural selection as pertaining to life means the best animals get to breed and thus pass on their genes. The ones who die before mating don’t. Plain and simple.

But natural selection does not only pertain to life. The smartest people go to college, the strongest athlete wins the gold, the most beautiful person gets the date. Natural selection is a process that does not require life at all to work. Natural selection is the best item winning out over others. It’s because this item has a better probability of survival than others.

How does this relate to life forming? Well, life could never form spontaneously. The odds of a single strand of DNA forming spontaneously out of the materials are so impossibly high that even time might not ever make it happen. There are too many base pairs of genetic code. Thus, DNA did not form spontaneously.

Let us suppose we have a computer program, not very complex at all, but just enough to make it have the capacity to use the computer. Now, in this program, we have entered in some random code. We run the program and discover this random code acts in a way that it destroys the program. This program has failed to “live.” Now, suppose another program has code that does nothing. This program lives, but fails to do anything for itself. Now, suppose a third program has code that copies itself. Ah, now we have a program that will replicate.

The same goes for chemicals. There are certain chemicals that cause replication of themselves. You can dissolve some crystals in water and then chill the water. Not until you place another crystal in the water will the chemical condense onto itself. This is one example. There is a certain protein that will cause itself to replicate in the brain too. These are not alive at all, but they can replicate themselves.

So what does this have to do with life? In the early stages of Earth, there were compounds known as amino acids. The Earth’s oceans were literally a soup of these acids. Now, with a big soup of chemicals, and lots of ultra-violet radiation from the sun (the sun was very young then) there were chemical reactions occurring all the time. There was plenty of energy from the sun to make chemicals form randomly. Some of these chemicals lasted longer than others, and some even formed that could cause more of that chemical to form. Eventually, one chemical formed that could easily replicate itself, ribonucleic acid.

This chemical is also known as RNA, and can be found in your body. Basically, it’s a half strand of DNA. This strand of RNA was tiny. The odds of a big strand forming would have been too much, but a tiny strand could form. This piece of RNA would float around, and if the right combination of chemicals was near it, they would connect to it. Once enough chemicals were connected, they would separate from the RNA, and there would be an identical piece of RNA floating around. (Almost identical. It would actually be opposite to the first piece. But if it happened to the second piece too, that new piece would be identical to the first. Knowledge of chemistry helps here.)

This piece of RNA makes many copies of itself randomly over time. Now, some of these copies aren’t perfect copies. They have little differences here and there. Maybe a chemical got cut out or added or changed. Some of these mutations were bad. They couldn’t replicate any longer or were easily destroyed by the sun’s violent rays. Others were better. They could replicate with relative ease and weren’t as affected by the sun. The best mutations from each generation would be the ones to live each time. They would live and replicate.’

Eventually, these pieces of RNA get so long and complex they are easily broken. They have no protection form the elements. Now, I don’t have the knowledge of chemistry to tell you this step, but somehow there were also little bubbles floating around. Maybe a piece of RNA had the coding to make the basic building blocks for these bubbles, maybe they also formed spontaneously, but there were little bubbles. These bubbles were made of materials similar to the ones that make your cells. A piece of RNA makes it’s way into a bubble, and gets the protection it needs to form more and more complex iterations of itself.

From here, it’s all natural selection. The pieces of RNA that destroy their bubbles die, and the pieces that make proteins that keep their bubbles in tact live. This first step happened over billions of years. After a few million years of refinement, the first proper cell emerged. I could explain those in between processes too, but that would require a prodigious amount of either chemistry, or similar analogies. That would also require a bit of my time, which I am running out of as I have work in less than 2 hours and have stuff I need to get done. I hope this little explanation helps you to understand how you can get something out of nothing if you have enough time.

It’s all about survival of the most probable molecule.


Thanks a lot for that explanation. I understood all of it, too. And that was my question. I can see how it would evolve from there. Man, thank you so much.

  • 09.30.2004 1:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Joypad Junkie
If there's a star, there's a chance of life


Yeah, especially since it'll utterly destroy anything within millions of miles.

  • 09.30.2004 1:45 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

That's ok -- We'd likely suffocate before it reached us. If the corona moved just 50 miles closer overall, we'd be roasted. The Air would go too quick to keep up with the heavy breathing of the 100 Trillion organisms here.

  • 09.30.2004 2:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Still there is hope... Mars could survive

  • 09.30.2004 2:19 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • still hates toast

I believe there is another me living on an identical planet replying to this same topic with the same answer.

  • 09.30.2004 2:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I do believe you are talking from Uranus

  • 09.30.2004 2:30 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3