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Subject: Should I Even Bother Finishing Thursday War?

OH HAI THAR!

I'm only 54 pages in, and I already hate the book. It chock full of the same terrible writing and horrible character development that Traviss showed off in Glasslands. I don't know if I can continue this book unless I know it gets better.

  • 10.24.2012 5:47 PM PDT

It helps (a little) with Halo 4, if that is of any reassurance.

  • 10.24.2012 5:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Do another 7 pages and you'll beat me.

  • 10.24.2012 6:01 PM PDT

Strange, even amongst this community, people have said that Thursday War is a vast improvement.

  • 10.24.2012 6:28 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Strange, even amongst this community, people have said that Thursday War is a vast improvement.

Personally, I think it's a slight improvement. But only because the characters she's bashing aren't that popular. She's still hating on Halsey but at least Blue Team and Mendez aren't mentioned. The less pre-Glasslands characters are mentioned, the better.

I see the hypocrisy of ONI and Parongosky (sp?), which Travis doesn't address. I think it's a terrible direction to go. In Halo Evolution there was a great short story during the post-war which I thought was a decent direction.

  • 10.25.2012 10:50 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Strange, even amongst this community, people have said that Thursday War is a vast improvement.


Even a better looking crap is still a piece of crap.

  • 10.25.2012 11:48 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Strange, even amongst this community, people have said that Thursday War is a vast improvement.


Even a better looking crap is still a piece of crap.


The "vast improvement" is that there are less established pre-glasslands characters involved. So we aren't have to shove our way through pages of "Why the -blam!- is character x acting that way?"

I did like how ONE time Parangosky uses her brain. Was the shining moment of the book.

  • 10.25.2012 11:55 AM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)

To be honest, I liked both Glasslands and Thursday War.

Yeah, Glasslands started a little strange, and I find it odd that everything in the UNSC/ ONI is now Australian/British, but whatever. Yeah some of the characters are a bit teadious, especially Mal and Vaz, but ODSTs see some -blam!-, so can see how they would be a bit off their rocker.

What people don't realize when they bash on Travis for "ruining" characters, is that combat and stress can change people. You can't say that you would act like yourself or think rationally if you were trapped in one way bomb shelter with little to no food, no ammunition, and had just lost your leader and friends you'd known your entire life.

Mendez was angry at Halsey because of the self guilt he had in the program, and how he knew his role in the S-III project was worse than Halsey in the S-II. Travis doesn't state it out loud, because you're supposed to use your brain to think about it. Not all authors hold your hand.

Halsey is acting -blam!-y and guilty because she's BEEN -blam!-y and guilty since Fall of Reach! She's always been racked with guilt about the Spartan IIs, but has been able to push the guilt aside due to the war effort, and spending an ungodly amount of time researching shield technology and MJOLNIR. She's finally cracked on Onyx because for once she has nothing to do, and is completely out of her element. In Thursday War she has just lost all of her freedom, doesn't have a single friend in the galaxy, and lost her daughter who she forced away. Gee, you're telling me you wouldn't act any differently?

Parangotsky has every right to be ticked at Halsey and call her a war criminal because she gave Halsey space to work and she betrayed her, wasting resources and arguably making the loss of a child worse for the parents of the SIIs. Now, she has her on a leashe and working on important projects. And her ideas behind the Sangheili are spot on for a military leader.

All the UNSC had for peace was a weak promise by the Arbiter, who, at the end of Halo 3, apparently only had the Shadow of Intent, 'Rtas Vadum's tiny fleet, and a few hundred Elites under his command. Dividing and conquering the now largest military force in the Orion Arm makes perfect sense. Especially after Thursday War, when we realize that some free Sangheili worlds still think the war is going on and don't know the Great Schism has happened. These are Elites that could be loyal to the Arbiter, but would still fight us. Heck, Sangheili civies shot at Mal and Vaz just because they were human.

While we all love Arby and Half-Jaw, their beliefs aren't in line with the majority of Sangheili who want nothing to do with humanity, or want us gone. Don't get mad at Traviss because she proposed a unique idea that actually makes sense.

The only problem I have with the trillogy so far is that it appears ONI had a CRAZY amount of resources we knew nothing about. Apparently they went from a simple RND and intel group to something that takes up half the Fleet's budget. I mean hell, simultaniously setting up listening posts, Trelevan's research station, building Infinity, upgrading Port Stanley and mantaining a massive Prowler fleet, in addition to Point of No Return. Seems kinda far fetched.

  • 10.25.2012 10:19 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Gottalovec4

Parangotsky has every right to be ticked at Halsey and call her a war criminal because she gave Halsey space to work and she betrayed her, wasting resources and arguably making the loss of a child worse for the parents of the SIIs. Now, she has her on a leashe and working on important projects. And her ideas behind the Sangheili are spot on for a military leader.



What resources did Halsey waste? If you refer to the clones, those seemed to be part of the plan since the Fall of Reach. As for making the loss worse, what sounds worse to you, knowing your child died or not knowing what happened to them, maybe in the hands of some pervert or in a ditch on some backwater colony? Halsey delivered closure so the parents could move on.

And for Maggie to call Halsey a war criminal is the pot calling the kettle black. Maggie approved off sending kids to die as suicide soldiers, ie the S-IIIs.

  • 10.25.2012 10:43 PM PDT

// Chapter
// My PC


2/15/12: Francisco Porras, I'll miss you. Rest in Peace.

I heard they make Halsey seem like the worst person in the history of man kind...

I hope that's not true.

  • 10.25.2012 11:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Gottalovec4
I find it odd that everything in the UNSC/ ONI is now Australian/British, but whatever.


Yeah, this is pretty much the only thing that does my head in too. I know Traviss is English, and maybe she's proud of that, but it's no excuse to be putting in Britishisms (even disguished as Australianisms) every other word. And I'm English myself.

Yeah some of the characters are a bit teadious, especially Mal and Vaz, but ODSTs see some -blam!-, so can see how they would be a bit off their rocker.

Vaz and Mal are the only characters I think she misstepped with; they're completely interchangable and about as exciting as a soggy biscuit dropped in tea (c wat i did thur?)

Mendez was angry at Halsey because of the self guilt he had in the program, and how he knew his role in the S-III project was worse than Halsey in the S-II. Travis doesn't state it out loud, because you're supposed to use your brain to think about it. Not all authors hold your hand.

Halsey is acting -blam!-y and guilty because she's BEEN -blam!-y and guilty since Fall of Reach! She's always been racked with guilt about the Spartan IIs, but has been able to push the guilt aside due to the war effort, and spending an ungodly amount of time researching shield technology and MJOLNIR. She's finally cracked on Onyx because for once she has nothing to do, and is completely out of her element. In Thursday War she has just lost all of her freedom, doesn't have a single friend in the galaxy, and lost her daughter who she forced away. Gee, you're telling me you wouldn't act any differently?


Yeah, none of them really had the chance for a drawn-out debate in Ghosts of Onyx - they were in heavy combat from the offset, and Kurt was running everything as a strict military operation, with no room for dissidence in the ranks. In the book, even Halsey seemed to understand that and followed his orders.

Parangotsky has every right to be ticked at Halsey and call her a war criminal because she gave Halsey space to work and she betrayed her, wasting resources and arguably making the loss of a child worse for the parents of the SIIs. Now, she has her on a leashe and working on important projects. And her ideas behind the Sangheili are spot on for a military leader.

Parangosky's close to death, and she's realised that even if she was remembered, it'd be for all the wrong reasons. She wants to shift some of the guilt from her memory to Halsey, and then before she dies make sure the only child she's ever needed (humanity) will never be hurt by the remnants of the Covenant again. I think with that in mind, none of her actions are particularly out there.

we realize that some free Sangheili worlds still think the war is going on and don't know the Great Schism has happened. These are Elites that could be loyal to the Arbiter, but would still fight us. Heck, Sangheili civies shot at Mal and Vaz just because they were human.

Wow, really? I'm re-reading Glasslands before I start on The Thursday War; that sounds pretty interesting. I'm not saying she's perfect (I hate her Star Wars books, and anything original she's done has bored me to tears when I've tried it) but one thing she's doing brilliantly with the Halo universe is exploring the Sangheili culture, which was left criminally forgotten after the negative reaction to the Arbiter campaign of Halo 2.

While we all love Arby and Half-Jaw, their beliefs aren't in line with the majority of Sangheili who want nothing to do with humanity, or want us gone. Don't get mad at Traviss because she proposed a unique idea that actually makes sense.

Yeah. It's not just the Sangheili who express this opinion either - even at the end of Halo 3, Hood makes it clear that they're not allies, but they can leave each other alone. That's all ONI's trying to do; make sure the Sangheili are weak enough that they'll have to stay out of our way.

The only problem I have with the trillogy so far is that it appears ONI had a CRAZY amount of resources we knew nothing about. Apparently they went from a simple RND and intel group to something that takes up half the Fleet's budget. I mean hell, simultaniously setting up listening posts, Trelevan's research station, building Infinity, upgrading Port Stanley and mantaining a massive Prowler fleet, in addition to Point of No Return. Seems kinda far fetched.


I don't know - the SPARTAN project and MJOLNIR alone could have created several battlefleets for their cost. It's pretty clear that with anything of a major budget, they have to go through the UNSC - Parangosky mentions this when talking about Infinity, for example.

  • 10.26.2012 2:34 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Gottalovec4
Especially after Thursday War, when we realize that some free Sangheili worlds still think the war is going on and don't know the Great Schism has happened.

The species has the ability to perform exceedingly accurate slipspace navigation, near-instantaneous interstellar communication and man-portable application of energy manipulation. The unified state of the 26th century Covenant stands at this level.
I guess every single com line in the Covenant empire, on every planet and on every star ship, was down, huh?

Posted by: Gottalovec4
While we all love Arby and Half-Jaw, their beliefs aren't in line with the majority of Sangheili who want nothing to do with humanity, or want us gone.

It's so easy to say that in hindsight, isn't it? KT put that idea forward, so it can hardly be used as a basis to justify itself.

Posted by: Gottalovec4
Don't get mad at Traviss because she proposed a unique idea that actually makes sense.

Their justifications of Humanity being liars and over-colonizers doesn't make any sense.

  • 10.26.2012 7:27 AM PDT

Rain, and Jazz.
Halo: Tactical

I'm either a fool or an inteligent man, depending on how sleepy or angry I am.

I originaly made an account on 07.27.2007 but I wanted to link my GT and made this account. Don't forget your passwords!

BROTIP: Don't read the Kilo-Five trilogy, read the Forunner trilogy.

I actualy got rid of my copy of the first book she wrote in that series.

  • 10.26.2012 7:30 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Gottalovec4
Especially after Thursday War, when we realize that some free Sangheili worlds still think the war is going on and don't know the Great Schism has happened.

The species has the ability to perform exceedingly accurate slipspace navigation, near-instantaneous interstellar communication and man-portable application of energy manipulation. The unified state of the 26th century Covenant stands at this level.
I guess every single com line in the Covenant empire, on every planet and on every star ship, was down, huh?

Posted by: Gottalovec4
While we all love Arby and Half-Jaw, their beliefs aren't in line with the majority of Sangheili who want nothing to do with humanity, or want us gone.

It's so easy to say that in hindsight, isn't it? KT put that idea forward, so it can hardly be used as a basis to justify itself.

Posted by: Gottalovec4
Don't get mad at Traviss because she proposed a unique idea that actually makes sense.

Their justifications of Humanity being liars and over-colonizers doesn't make any sense.


Yeah... that is kinda retarded. The colony sent both ships AND soldiers to fight in the Covenant, but hadn't heard back in years? Yet they have a handheld comm device that can instantly reach the elite homeworld... and never called to go "Hey, how's that war going?"

Also, gottalovec4... false. The material around halo 3 pointed at a good and large movement of Elite youth (and other warriors) who respected humanity. I'd say the split between "war!" and "peace!" is either in favor of Peace, or closer to an actual tie then what Glasslands says.

  • 10.26.2012 7:50 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Christ, you'd think that they would at least contact their colonies to say "Hey, don't trust any Brute lead fleets that you come across, they are not with us any more and are sort of trying to kill us all now." How any Sangheili colonies don't know about the war's end, and of the Great Schism, is nothing short of complete idiocy indicating how very little thought is being put into these stories.

[Edited on 10.26.2012 8:06 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2012 7:53 AM PDT
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Are you kidding me ? Thursday war was awsome... Way better than glasslands.

  • 10.26.2012 8:12 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Christ, you'd think that they would at least contact their colonies to say "Hey, don't trust any Brute lead fleets that you come across, they are not with us any more and are sort of trying to kill us all now." How any Sangheili colonies don't know about the war's end, and of the Great Schism, is nothing short of complete idiocy indicating how very little thought is being put into these stories.


Weren't any colonies founded before the Covenant independent of the empire? They might have gone silent, to stay out of the war.

It's a little ridiculous though. I'll have to read the book for myself before I decide.

  • 10.26.2012 8:35 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Something was mentioned about pre-Covenant colonies maintaining some degree of autonomy, but I doubt that in the wake of the Schism those bloodthirsty Jiralhanea warlords that rose up, and whatever vindictive Prophets there are left, are going to care about the political and historical distinctions between differing Sangheili colonies. They intended xenocide.

Even if they did discriminate based on that reasoning, it isn't likely to be an assumption that people would argue over, or something that no one even thought about altogether, to stop the Homeworld from simply giving them a heads up on current events, and to tell them to watch the skies for any Brute fleets that might try to glass them for simply being Sangheili.

  • 10.26.2012 8:56 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: anton1792
Christ, you'd think that they would at least contact their colonies to say "Hey, don't trust any Brute lead fleets that you come across, they are not with us any more and are sort of trying to kill us all now." How any Sangheili colonies don't know about the war's end, and of the Great Schism, is nothing short of complete idiocy indicating how very little thought is being put into these stories.


Weren't any colonies founded before the Covenant independent of the empire? They might have gone silent, to stay out of the war.

It's a little ridiculous though. I'll have to read the book for myself before I decide.


They still gave soldiers to the Covenant, they didn't even know the war was over.

  • 10.26.2012 10:25 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: anton1792
Christ, you'd think that they would at least contact their colonies to say "Hey, don't trust any Brute lead fleets that you come across, they are not with us any more and are sort of trying to kill us all now." How any Sangheili colonies don't know about the war's end, and of the Great Schism, is nothing short of complete idiocy indicating how very little thought is being put into these stories.


Weren't any colonies founded before the Covenant independent of the empire? They might have gone silent, to stay out of the war.

It's a little ridiculous though. I'll have to read the book for myself before I decide.


They still gave soldiers to the Covenant, they didn't even know the war was over.


Are the colonies in The Thursday War major ones like Joyous Exaltation, or smaller backwater colonies akin to the human one in the asteroid belt in First Strike?

I'm out of my depth here because I haven't read the book yet (nearly there!) but I find it hard to believe a major colony wouldn't know anything about the Great Schism or the war ending.

[Edited on 10.26.2012 10:39 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2012 10:36 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Are the colonies in The Thursday War major ones like Joyous Exaltation, or smaller backwater colonies akin to the human one in the asteroid belt in First Strike?

I'm out of my depth here because I haven't read the book yet (nearly there!) but I find it hard to believe a major colony wouldn't know anything about the Great Schism or the war ending.


It seems like they are smaller, but they appear powerful enough to give the Storm Covenant such a huge fleet.

  • 10.26.2012 10:46 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Wolverfrog

Are the colonies in The Thursday War major ones like Joyous Exaltation, or smaller backwater colonies akin to the human one in the asteroid belt in First Strike?

I'm out of my depth here because I haven't read the book yet (nearly there!) but I find it hard to believe a major colony wouldn't know anything about the Great Schism or the war ending.


It seems like they are smaller, but they appear powerful enough to give the Storm Covenant such a huge fleet.


It sounded like they planned to raid/steal/get better ships.

But yeah wolver, the colony had instant comm devices that could reach the homeworld, ships (though 'slow and old' for Covenant IIRC) capable of FTL, and large enough they could send warriors every (maybe..) few years? to fight in the human-covenant war.

The fact they go "We haven't heard from the Covenant in a few years..." yet had tech that lets them contact the Covenant instantly is =_=.

  • 10.27.2012 8:38 AM PDT

I'm 23, I have a house, dog, girlfriend, job and I have no interest in any fanboyism so if you're thinking about sending me a childish PM, don't be surprised when I don't call back.

I haven't read Thursday War but the problem with Glasslands was the fact that it goes nowhere. I can't really pin it down but it seems as though you're always reading about the same story happening.

Ever time it changes back to the previous characters they're still doing the same thing and having the same conversations, nothing ever happens.

  • 10.27.2012 8:45 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I'm around page 300, and it is an improvement, although it still isn't great.

Parangosky's massive hypocrisy is never addressed. She, of all people, has no right to jump on a moral high horse after sending hundreds of children on suicide missions by exploiting their unstable emotional states and pumping them with drugs.

Although, I do love the characterization of BB. I would love to see him go head to head with Cortana, as they seem to be the conceptual opposites.

  • 10.27.2012 10:01 AM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I'm around page 300, and it is an improvement, although it still isn't great.

Parangosky's massive hypocrisy is never addressed. She, of all people, has no right to jump on a moral high horse after sending hundreds of children on suicide missions by exploiting their unstable emotional states and pumping them with drugs.

Although, I do love the characterization of BB. I would love to see him go head to head with Cortana, as they seem to be the conceptual opposites.


I hate BB. Why? Because his 'fragments' are basically dumb AI's (instead of actually being like a translation facete of him, and while it's active the main BB doesn't have as much power there. Or said fragments being copies and thus not as effective) and frankly, throughout thursday war I had trouble keeping track over which was a fragment, which was the main thing. The ONLY fragment I knew was the one with Philips. The rest seemed literally interchangable. "Wait, is BB on the Port Stanley, Naomi's suit, or infinity? Which are his fragments!"

So yeah. He seemed able to do literally anything, and be in all places at once without reason.

Oh, you'll love this page http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/HaloGlasslan ds?from=Main.HaloGlasslands

It's true, glasslands (and partly thursday war, but less so) is full of morality issues and tropes.

  • 10.27.2012 2:26 PM PDT

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