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Subject: Spartan III's were pre-teens when they were sent to war?

WTF, so instead of augmenting adults, they sent 300 little 12 year olds that ended up sacrificing their own lives. That's messed up lol

[Edited on 10.26.2012 7:23 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2012 7:20 AM PDT

Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,

[Edited on 10.26.2012 7:27 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2012 7:25 AM PDT

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The Spartan II program cost the UNSC billions. The Spartan III's are cheaper and are meant for more suicide missions.

And don't forget that the Spartan III's were candidates that were picked from the street. Orphans, homeless ...

  • 10.26.2012 7:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Chester Duncan
Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,


Yeah, I know that the S-III program started before IV, I was just going through the S-III profiles, saw their DOB and age of death and noticed that they were just pre-teens or in their early teens. Pretty messed up lol

  • 10.26.2012 7:35 AM PDT


Posted by: Ferox Elite

Posted by: Chester Duncan
Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,


Yeah, I know that the S-III program started before IV, I was just going through the S-III profiles, saw their DOB and age of death and noticed that they were just pre-teens or in their early teens. Pretty messed up lol
that's because they were orphans. So no one would miss them. The one to blame for it so that "saint" Maggie. Just like the S-II program she had to OK the S-III program.

  • 10.26.2012 7:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Ferox Elite

Posted by: Chester Duncan
Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,


Yeah, I know that the S-III program started before IV, I was just going through the S-III profiles, saw their DOB and age of death and noticed that they were just pre-teens or in their early teens. Pretty messed up lol
that's because they were orphans. So no one would miss them. The one to blame for it so that "saint" Maggie. Just like the S-II program she had to OK the S-III program.


No, you see, Halsey is clearly to blame for the S3 program!


/sarcasm mode off.

They did go on other missions, but yes, ONI command sent the bulk of the companies on missions that resulted in the entire deaths. Then again, remember that in forward unto dawn, Chief is wat... 14 years old?

But yeah, S3's didn't really get to grow up for the most part. They got zerg rushed into war.

  • 10.26.2012 8:19 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Ferox Elite

Posted by: Chester Duncan
Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,


Yeah, I know that the S-III program started before IV, I was just going through the S-III profiles, saw their DOB and age of death and noticed that they were just pre-teens or in their early teens. Pretty messed up lol
that's because they were orphans. So no one would miss them. The one to blame for it so that "saint" Maggie. Just like the S-II program she had to OK the S-III program.


No, you see, Halsey is clearly to blame for the S3 program!


/sarcasm mode off.

They did go on other missions, but yes, ONI command sent the bulk of the companies on missions that resulted in the entire deaths. Then again, remember that in forward unto dawn, Chief is wat... 14 years old?

But yeah, S3's didn't really get to grow up for the most part. They got zerg rushed into war.
BUT HALSEY IS THE MOTHER OF HITLER!!! Also yes S-III were never really meant to survive. As the "saint" put it. Trade lives for time.

  • 10.26.2012 8:28 AM PDT

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And in Reach, you have a bunch of whiny pre-teens controlling Spartan-III's, and fighting eachother.

Makes perfect sense.

  • 10.27.2012 12:02 PM PDT
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I remember reading on the Wiki that once the Spartans passed there augmentations and received their armor which was around 14-15 years of age, they were deployed for battle.

  • 10.27.2012 1:09 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.

  • 10.27.2012 4:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.

Depends on the age they were enlisted and even then... I highly doubt it.

Spartan-2's were the genetic 1 in a billion humans. They were even without the augmentations already stronger/smarter/faster than other human beings by genetics. The USNC stretched them to the limit with the (way intenser training than spartan-3's) and then pushed them over the limit with augmentations (which were basically the same as the s3's).

I'm sorry, but the training of the spartan-2's was longer and less "ethical" than the training of the s3's. Some of the s3's were enlisted at the age of 8

  • 10.27.2012 4:26 PM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.


I don't know; when Lucy shoots an Engineer and it falls on her, it's only sixty kilos of dead-weight and she still struggles to move under it. John was curling eighty kilos in a high-gravity environment at 14, and he found even that easy.

I think this idea that Spartan IIIs are the equals or better of Spartan IIs is absurd. Even with armour taken out of the equation, they're clearly not.

  • 10.27.2012 4:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.


I don't know; when Lucy shoots an Engineer and it falls on her, it's only sixty kilos of dead-weight and she still struggles to move under it. John was curling eighty kilos in a high-gravity environment at 14, and he found even that easy.

I think this idea that Spartan IIIs are the equals or better of Spartan IIs is absurd. Even with armour taken out of the equation, they're clearly not.
Lucy was pretty small for a Spartan though.

Not sure if that's the average size for a Spartan III though.

  • 10.27.2012 4:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.


I don't know; when Lucy shoots an Engineer and it falls on her, it's only sixty kilos of dead-weight and she still struggles to move under it. John was curling eighty kilos in a high-gravity environment at 14, and he found even that easy.

I think this idea that Spartan IIIs are the equals or better of Spartan IIs is absurd. Even with armour taken out of the equation, they're clearly not.


Definitely didn't happen in Nylund's novels. That just leaves the author who did absolutely no research on the series.

Suffice it to say, I think we can agree that Lucy not being able to move sixty kilos from a prone position is just bad writing, not an actual representation of S-III strength.

  • 10.27.2012 7:34 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: tjal
Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.

Depends on the age they were enlisted and even then... I highly doubt it.

Spartan-2's were the genetic 1 in a billion humans. They were even without the augmentations already stronger/smarter/faster than other human beings by genetics. The USNC stretched them to the limit with the (way intenser training than spartan-3's) and then pushed them over the limit with augmentations (which were basically the same as the s3's).

I'm sorry, but the training of the spartan-2's was longer and less "ethical" than the training of the s3's. Some of the s3's were enlisted at the age of 8


Wrong.

Kurt himself said that the Spartan III's training regime was more grueling than the Spartan II's. The Spartan II's had an easier (in contrast) training, extended over a longer time than the Spartan III's. As Mendez would say, the Spartan III's had the drive to destroy and kill the Covenant that the Spartan II's didn't. Also as he said, genetics isn't everything.

Give a Spartan III a set of MJLONIR at the same age when the Spartan II's got it and I assure you the fight will either be extremely equal or balance towards the Spartan III. Look at he missions they were going on when they were 12, when the Spartan II's were still in training, and look at the missions, despite the costs, they managed to complete. Missions even Spartan II's wouldn't be sent on. Spartan III's perhaps weren't the cream of the crop, but they were still much better than the average human in terms of genetics.

And please don't bring up Noble Team. Bungie's representation of it was rather insulting and completely untrue for a team of real Spartans. We have almost no records of their past operations up to Reach. They deserve their own novel or something to flesh them out. Do them justice.

Posted by: Teh Vault Boy
Definitely didn't happen in Nylund's novels. That just leaves the author who did absolutely no research on the series.

Suffice it to say, I think we can agree that Lucy not being able to move sixty kilos from a prone position is just bad writing, not an actual representation of S-III strength.


Also, this. This should be common sense.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 10:50 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 10:48 AM PDT

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Yeah, why do you think that ONI didn't want that to surface?

  • 10.28.2012 11:20 AM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.


I don't know; when Lucy shoots an Engineer and it falls on her, it's only sixty kilos of dead-weight and she still struggles to move under it. John was curling eighty kilos in a high-gravity environment at 14, and he found even that easy.

I think this idea that Spartan IIIs are the equals or better of Spartan IIs is absurd. Even with armour taken out of the equation, they're clearly not.


Okay, is Lucy = 70 kilos, that means she can't lift her own weight. You understand how stupid that is?

Oh, and she's in full SPI. A few friends have rated that at probably being around 200 kilos or so.

That and Lucy was described as being small for an S3.

While Lucy isn't the baseline for an S3, glasslands shows them being far weaker then they were in Onyx. I recall that beta company took on Covenant ground forces, and were beating ELITES in hand to hand combat. If they are not even CLOSE to being equal to S2's, how the -blam!- would they do that?

Frankly, if an S3 can't do after having years of getting used to the augmentations what an S2 can do directly post-augmentation, how the -blam!- can S3's wear MJOLNIR? It's a canon fact they can. So if they don't have S2 level strength, speed, and reflexes, MJOLNIR would destroy them.

  • 10.28.2012 11:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.


I don't know; when Lucy shoots an Engineer and it falls on her, it's only sixty kilos of dead-weight and she still struggles to move under it. John was curling eighty kilos in a high-gravity environment at 14, and he found even that easy.

I think this idea that Spartan IIIs are the equals or better of Spartan IIs is absurd. Even with armour taken out of the equation, they're clearly not.


Okay, is Lucy = 70 kilos, that means she can't lift her own weight. You understand how stupid that is?

Oh, and she's in full SPI. A few friends have rated that at probably being around 200 kilos or so.

That and Lucy was described as being small for an S3.

While Lucy isn't the baseline for an S3, glasslands shows them being far weaker then they were in Onyx. I recall that beta company took on Covenant ground forces, and were beating ELITES in hand to hand combat. If they are not even CLOSE to being equal to S2's, how the -blam!- would they do that?

Frankly, if an S3 can't do after having years of getting used to the augmentations what an S2 can do directly post-augmentation, how the -blam!- can S3's wear MJOLNIR? It's a canon fact they can. So if they don't have S2 level strength, speed, and reflexes, MJOLNIR would destroy them.


NOBLE team is a special case, since they actually meet the strict genetic requirements as outlined by Halsey.

You know as well as I do that we wind up with some she would have chosen - not just kids lucky enough to survive a glassing - Kurt to Mendez.

So they're more Spartan IIs than Spartan IIIs in all but designation - using them as a marker for the S3s without perfect genes is folly.

Even the strength of a Spartan II is disputed. We've got John nearly being killed in a melee with a Sangheili in The Fall of Reach, and then in other books we see Spartans knocking them down with a single strike.

It's hard to gauge who is stronger than who when we don't even know how strong any of them are. But for my money, it does seem like S3s are lesser versions of S2s - they're not as tall, most of them can't wear MJOLNIR and they don't appear to be as strong either.

But it's not something I'm going to argue too heavily, because it's a very hazy subject - something I'd like 343i to expand on, actually. Especially with Spartan IVs entering the equation.

  • 10.28.2012 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.
Care to explain why all but two were killed in beta? Or why no one tried to do anything to run when the omega code went up? I know it meant run at all cost but why not try no matter what to buy time for others?

  • 10.28.2012 7:32 PM PDT


Posted by: a casual banana
Yeah, why do you think that ONI didn't want that to surface?
its going to...wait forget it. Halsey wasn't part of the S-III program so it stays locked up.

  • 10.28.2012 8:20 PM PDT
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"I know not what weapons World War III will be fought with, but I do know that World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

-Albert Einstein

They were created to be not only a blueprint for the S-IV's, but also as a cheaper, easier to produce but still equally effective alternative to the S-II's. They were abducted, trained and educated young, and sent off to die a few years later.

Sad, but the UNSC had to gain some ground.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 9:42 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 9:42 PM PDT

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Yeah, the S-III program was really messed up. That's why they went over Halsey's head with it.

  • 10.29.2012 12:50 AM PDT


Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Ferox Elite

Posted by: Chester Duncan
Umm...the S-III program was started before the IV. The only reason we have the Iv's is because the augmenting the III proved that it was safer then what the II went through. The III's were a blue print for the IV's.


BTW the "saint" Maggie oked the kids going off to die,


Yeah, I know that the S-III program started before IV, I was just going through the S-III profiles, saw their DOB and age of death and noticed that they were just pre-teens or in their early teens. Pretty messed up lol
that's because they were orphans. So no one would miss them. The one to blame for it so that "saint" Maggie. Just like the S-II program she had to OK the S-III program.


And that "Saint" openly admits she's going to hell. Where do you get your delusions about how she's written from?

  • 10.29.2012 4:37 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Chester Duncan
Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.
Care to explain why all but two were killed in beta? Or why no one tried to do anything to run when the omega code went up? I know it meant run at all cost but why not try no matter what to buy time for others?


Beta Company was outnumbered 1 to 1000. A Covenant Battle Group, including a capital ship was present at the refinery. The Spartan III's were actually winning the battle against the Elites and Jackal's until the ships appeared, which they had no way of taking down.

What did you expect them to do, throw rocks at the ships? Half the company held their ground, sacrificing themselves against the masses of Covenant troops descending from the ships while the other half found cover or tried to escape the engagement. The fact that the Covenant ships actually started using their plasma cannons and lasers against them should show how hard exactly the Spartan III's were fighting and actually giving the Covenant a harder time than should have been possible, especially for infantry when you already have them outnumbered and trapped.

Everyone died because the blast radius of the reactor going critical was massive, I believe double digits in kilometers. Not even the Covenant ships survived, and you think SPI armor would withstand that? Tom and Lucy only survived because they jumped into the ocean, from which they almost drowned because of how deep they had to swim and because of the shockwave.

  • 10.29.2012 6:26 AM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: tjal
Posted by: HipiO7
They might have been preteens, but they were as good or even better than any Spartan II at that age.

Depends on the age they were enlisted and even then... I highly doubt it.

Spartan-2's were the genetic 1 in a billion humans. They were even without the augmentations already stronger/smarter/faster than other human beings by genetics. The USNC stretched them to the limit with the (way intenser training than spartan-3's) and then pushed them over the limit with augmentations (which were basically the same as the s3's).

I'm sorry, but the training of the spartan-2's was longer and less "ethical" than the training of the s3's. Some of the s3's were enlisted at the age of 8


Wrong.

Kurt himself said that the Spartan III's training regime was more grueling than the Spartan II's. The Spartan II's had an easier (in contrast) training, extended over a longer time than the Spartan III's. As Mendez would say, the Spartan III's had the drive to destroy and kill the Covenant that the Spartan II's didn't. Also as he said, genetics isn't everything.

Give a Spartan III a set of MJLONIR at the same age when the Spartan II's got it and I assure you the fight will either be extremely equal or balance towards the Spartan III. Look at he missions they were going on when they were 12, when the Spartan II's were still in training, and look at the missions, despite the costs, they managed to complete. Missions even Spartan II's wouldn't be sent on. Spartan III's perhaps weren't the cream of the crop, but they were still much better than the average human in terms of genetics.

And please don't bring up Noble Team. Bungie's representation of it was rather insulting and completely untrue for a team of real Spartans. We have almost no records of their past operations up to Reach. They deserve their own novel or something to flesh them out. Do them justice.

Posted by: Teh Vault Boy
Definitely didn't happen in Nylund's novels. That just leaves the author who did absolutely no research on the series.

Suffice it to say, I think we can agree that Lucy not being able to move sixty kilos from a prone position is just bad writing, not an actual representation of S-III strength.


Also, this. This should be common sense.

Umm...no, spartan II's and the MJOLNIR armor costs as much as a freight, that's why they weren't sent on suicide missions, and at this point in the series they were pretty scarce . That said the spartan III's have messed up biochemistry so that they have a chance in battle, resulting in excessive aggression. Spartan II's were made using more resources, trained longer, and were the peak of human genetics. Maybe out of armor they might be similarly matched, although I would still bet on the II, but in armor the spartan II would wipe the floor with a II, SPI armor compares in no way to MJOLNIR.

  • 10.29.2012 4:50 PM PDT

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