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This topic has moved here: Poll [122 votes]: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?
  • Poll [122 votes]: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?
Subject: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?

Poll: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?  [closed]
Yes replace her and bring back Eric:  60%
(73 Votes)
No She is doing Fine:  25%
(30 Votes)
Bring back Eric anyway:  16%
(19 Votes)
Total Votes: 122

I am conducting this poll to see if anyone on this forum feels she is not doing a good job and making things worse

  • 10.27.2012 8:39 PM PDT

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Hate on Traviss all you want, but Eric Nylund is a terrible writer.

  • 10.27.2012 8:45 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Jim Butcher should write the Halo novels, and it should have fewer aliens and more Harry Dresden.

  • 10.27.2012 9:11 PM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the mirratord" join the Mirratord


Posted by: Primo84
Hate on Traviss all you want, but Eric Nylund is a terrible writer.


Finally people are seeing this.

I agree she's a bad writer but at least her writing style is more enjoyable then Eric's.

[Edited on 10.27.2012 9:27 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2012 9:17 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Her books so far have lacked in the action department.

  • 10.27.2012 9:36 PM PDT

To be honest, I've only read the Halo books for their stories. When I look back, the way the authors have told the story have decent, but not great.

I'm reading Cryptum right now, but so far it seems only decent.

  • 10.27.2012 9:43 PM PDT

I'm fine with other people writing Halo books - personally, I thought Staten did the best job - but I can't jump on the "Traviss is a good writer" bandwagon.

In my opinion, she can't disconnect her own "voice" from her work. That, plus her lack of research about/knowledge of Halo, makes her ill-suited to writing a trilogy of Halo books.

Hate Nylund as much as you want, but at least he had consistent characterization and didn't bash the reader over the head with his personal feelings on the ethics of making super-soldiers and whatnot.

  • 10.27.2012 10:09 PM PDT

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Posted by: Justice One Duo
Hate Nylund as much as you want, but at least he had consistent characterization and didn't bash the reader over the head with his personal feelings on the ethics of making super-soldiers and whatnot.
Was he capable of it? Nylund never seemed to touch upon any sort of moral ambiguity, and there seems to be a lot of that in the Halo universe.

  • 10.27.2012 10:19 PM PDT

Maybe he was capable of it, maybe he wasn't. Since he's moved on to other stuff, I don't think we'll ever find out. But that's what I liked about TFoR, FS, and GoO. He just presented the information in a sort of clinical fashion, and let the reader feel about it however they wanted to.

Hate the idea of ONI kidnapping kids, flash-cloning soon-to-die replacements, and brainwashing/augmenting the originals? Or do you think the end result justified the horror behind the S-IIs and IIIs? One way or the other, Nylund didn't ever tell you what to feel.

Personally, I never got the vibe that Nylund was sitting there at his keyboard or with a pen, saying to himself "Yeah, turning kids into weapons is bad, so I'm gonna make everyone in my book say that it's bad without looking at the rest of the facts!" That, however, is the vibe I got from Traviss' writing.

Whether he could address the moral ambiguity or not, I'd rather have a writer who doesn't tell you what to think over one who does.

  • 10.27.2012 10:44 PM PDT
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Isn't Nylund MGS head writer now?

  • 10.27.2012 11:11 PM PDT

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

I always enjoyed Nylund's novels the most. He had great character development, storytelling, and deep wonderful descriptions of events. Also his understanding of the Halo Universe and Master's Degree in Chemical Physics helped with scientific aspect of the Halo universe. Though Karen Traviss is a great author, here lack of understanding of the Halo Universe and the Sciences reflects poorly on here novels. (Also here use of British references and terms slightly bugs me)

They are both excellent writers but I feel that Nylund is more fit for telling Halo's story.

  • 10.28.2012 12:12 AM PDT

All Nylund was good at was technical writing - his description of space battles and the science behind the universe was great. Characters were fairly poor, giving us Mary Sues (like Halsey, who could do ANYTHING) or cookie-cutter generic heroes. A lot of his prose was pretty bad too.

I much prefer Traviss over him, I think her approach to the Halo universe is the best yet (with Greg Bear a close second place.) After the K-5 trilogy though, I don't think she should be brought back due to all the controversy she's caused.

It's a shame, but people will be people. Still haven't had a convincing argument as to why she's so terrible.

  • 10.28.2012 12:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog
All Nylund was good at was technical writing - his description of space battles and the science behind the universe was great. Characters were fairly poor, giving us Mary Sues (like Halsey, who could do ANYTHING) or cookie-cutter generic heroes. A lot of his prose was pretty bad too.

I much prefer Traviss over him, I think her approach to the Halo universe is the best yet (with Greg Bear a close second place.) After the K-5 trilogy though, I don't think she should be brought back due to all the controversy she's caused.

It's a shame, but people will be people. Still haven't had a convincing argument as to why she's so terrible.
wut?

Wolverfrog I honestly still respect your opinion especially when it comes to writing. I was there when you posted on the halo wars forum and have seen your writing skill. But seriesly you can't think that her writing is good for halo?

Yeah the characters develop a little more than you think but she basically forces her opinion on how making spartan II super soldiers is wrong. She then made Halsey look like a -blam!- as opposed to her actually the one having a conscious in this situation, which aggravates me because she actually cared for her spartans unlike the precious ONI angel Margaret who sent 12 year olds on suicide missions and outright killed her opposing people or made them disappear.

Her disregard for standing halo canon, instead of reading the books she feels like she can just conjure the universe from nothing and change it however see shes fit. As an author she has the right to do so and I understand;however, you can't just start spewing this and that without knowing actual canon. Lucy punchhed Halsey and all Halsey got was a broken nose. Thats a read flag she has no idea what the hell a spartan is! Regardless if it's a spartan II or III Lucy should have caved in her skull.

Do you know why she got kicked out of writing star wars fiction right?
She killed off a main character in the book. Flat out just bam! They're dead. This wasn't suppose to happen but lucasarts let it fly by and the fans practically revolted and she got kicked off from writing for them again. Do you want that to happen to halo? Or are you going to wait till Kelly dies from having her period....

let us see the red flags
Disregards canon and doesn't even read the lore enough to know about:check
Kills off main characters:check
Forces her views on the reader:check
Makes every character and whole toilet bowl potion of completly unneeded internal conflict:check

I don't want this amazing universe to be in the hands of some incompetent feminist who ruins good characters. I liked Nylund because he knew the universe well he created, and although his character development may have been little off, he got every other aspect of the universe down.
/end rant

[Edited on 10.28.2012 1:34 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 1:26 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

I enjoy'd Traviss's books, but I really do feel like she pushes her own agenda too much with it. She clearly hates Halsey, and seems to do her best to ensure the reader does too. I also hate nearly all her characters, like strawman Vaz, and the vindictive hagraven Parandoski, while I feel like I'm not supposed to. Idk, but at least Eric didn't try to tell you what to think.

  • 10.28.2012 2:50 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: Justice One Duo
Hate Nylund as much as you want, but at least he had consistent characterization and didn't bash the reader over the head with his personal feelings on the ethics of making super-soldiers and whatnot.
Was he capable of it? Nylund never seemed to touch upon any sort of moral ambiguity, and there seems to be a lot of that in the Halo universe.

how do you constantly assess moral ambiguity when you have a war that hinges on humanities survival. Sorry, but ethics are a luxury in this period.

I don't think people actually read between the lines when writers write things like 'An entire planet had been glassed' or 'The entire population of X and X had been wiped out without a chance' or 'The Covenant had killed billions in it's campaign agaisnt humanitys existance'.

Erm, what about these people? Should we assess their chance of survival when the covenant comes? Should ONI assess the morallty of leaving behind billions in order to save millions,thousands and in some case even less than hundreds?

I'm not using that as an excuse, but that's context in the situation. Sure, the S-IIs or the majority of people at this point had no idea that the covenant were coming. But ONI were never about morals, they were about results.

If you actually read GoO properly. You would actually notice Halsey begin to falter. Her ideas of the Spartan project were not as solid as they used to be. Looking at how many of her SPARTAN-IIs were left. At this point she just wanted to 'save as many as possible' which is why she began to try and earn the respects of the S-IIIs because she knew the S-IIIs could be taught to survive and run away when called for because ultimately they were young and inexperienced. Even though they weren't hers, she still had their best interest.

The S-II's had a lifetime of fighting under their belt. They were beyond changing in mentality. They were constructed for a different purpose. Not just to fight the Innies but to be Humanity's best soldiers. Halsey and EVERYONE involved including the readers me and you, knew you couldn't achieve this without some disregard for ethics. In Onyx it was debate of should she have let her Spartans lead a normal life? But ultimitaly she agreed that she made the right choice. Although that makes her a monster, shes aware of it. She just had to do everything she could to make the best out of it and she did. She gave them everything they needed except an ordinary life. But at this point in the Halo Universe, there was no such thing.

The moral lines had been covered by others such as ONI as well, they even approved of this by stating something along the lines of 'They were the most expensive project but also the most successful' hence they were to replicate it using, cheaper equipment, larger genepool and sample and more high-risk missions. Contridiction from ONI much into morals?

Why is that? It's because they didn't care.

They cared only enough to cover it up. [Alas The S-III's would be secret and the S-II's publicized to promote propaganda] They knew they were commiting worse atrocities than the S-II program ever could. EVEN Kurt felt bad, he knew he couldn't save them all. Where as Halsey had tried with the S-IIs he was being put in a different boat in the same position [CONTRAST], He gave the SIII's to contraband injections that promated Rage in times of need. Why did he do it?

Because he cared and wanted to give them a better fighting chance. Much like Halsey did with MJOLNIR. The real monsters are ONI. They always got in the way. Funding was there sure. But they pushed for results which got in the way of procedure. [Much like EA with Bioware LOL] That caused both projects trouble, with People like Halsey and Kurt doing things behind ONI's back.

Not only that, we constantly see Halsey fear [throughout all of Nylund's novels] of Ackerson making his own SPARTAN unit [which he eventually kinda did] not because of morals and ethics but because of INTENT. She was worried he would use them as simply faceless soldiers to carry out assignments for Ackerson's personal gain rather than Humanity's. If anything, in the novels Halsey had cared about the S-IIs more so than anyone. In 343i adaption, it's made out like she's some uncaring boss working kids into a sweatshop. Her character comes off as cold, but it's due to her intellegence and constant fear of what could happen. Emotions are put aside for her.

If ONI was going to persecute Halsey, they would have done so in the 30-40 years she had the project running under their PERMISSION. She was too valuable to ONI and continues to be so. She also gave them a fighting chance. Suddenly ONI is running checks and balances for morallty? HAHAA please. This is just an example of how Traviss is out of touch with the Halo Universe. [I see you call that being a great writer] This is after they establish her public figure to be one of high contribution to the UNSC war efforts [See ODST memorial or just read the books] She's notorious much like Keyes for being a genius in her field. You don't just tear someone down like that without a good reason that furthered ONI self-gain. [There is none] This is BS writing. The whole moral stuff Traviss writes.

Morallty was always a theme overshadowing the SPARTAN project. But it never became an issue within ONI and inside the Halo Universe until Traviss made it so. She took it too far, making it a main issue when there is a much bigger story that could have been told. It therefore impacted the story with it's hypocritical stance and now bang. We have a novel full of time-wasting about things I don't read Halo for.

I feel as if we're reading different books.

Sure Nylund isn't the best writer out there, by far. The same can be said about J.K Rowling to her Harry Potter series and others. You have to look at the audience here. HALO is for GAMERS.

What's important is that Nylund wrote a story worth reading. He covers themes throughout. Themes relevent to the Halo Universe. Themes that BUILT the Halo Universe. Traviss does not. The only thing she has going is a giant Space Soap Opera and fan's anticipation for Halo 4.
If I wanted that, I wouldn't be reading HALO.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 6:00 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 5:07 AM PDT

Posted by: Darthbill99
I enjoy'd Traviss's books, but I really do feel like she pushes her own agenda too much with it. She clearly hates Halsey, and seems to do her best to ensure the reader does too. I also hate nearly all her characters, like strawman Vaz, and the vindictive hagraven Parandoski, while I feel like I'm not supposed to. Idk, but at least Eric didn't try to tell you what to think.


She does that in pretty much everything she writes. Her Star Wars books were always about how Mandalorians are awesome and Jedi suck.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 5:20 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 5:17 AM PDT
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I thought Nylund's writing was perfect for the Halo books. It was strict and to the point, giving it a distinct military vibe. The fact that he managed to make understandable descriptions of the universe's technology (except the Forerunner crystal; I could not, for the life of me, figure out what the heck it was supposed to do other than mess up Slipspace).

I haven't read any of Traviss's books, but I remember reading about how she preferred to do no research at all before writing Glasslands. Then, just a few days ago, I saw someone cite a bit of Glasslands where a S-III couldn't move a sixty-kilo Engineer off of their body, which is ridiculously inaccurate. Seeing that kind of stuff makes me think that Traviss just assumed most things, rather than making sure what she was writing wasn't a breach in canon, which, to be frank, makes me think she was just lazy, or wanted to have some personalized system of writing books to associate with herself, quality of her products be damned.

Suffice it to say, Nylund's writing isn't great in a general sense, but he managed to give the Halo books a distinct feel to them, which, I find, makes them unique in the fact that an expansion on a universe created in another media (video games) manages to retain high-quality content when changed to a new media (books).

  • 10.28.2012 8:31 AM PDT


Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: Wolverfrog
All Nylund was good at was technical writing - his description of space battles and the science behind the universe was great. Characters were fairly poor, giving us Mary Sues (like Halsey, who could do ANYTHING) or cookie-cutter generic heroes. A lot of his prose was pretty bad too.

I much prefer Traviss over him, I think her approach to the Halo universe is the best yet (with Greg Bear a close second place.) After the K-5 trilogy though, I don't think she should be brought back due to all the controversy she's caused.

It's a shame, but people will be people. Still haven't had a convincing argument as to why she's so terrible.
wut?

Wolverfrog I honestly still respect your opinion especially when it comes to writing. I was there when you posted on the halo wars forum and have seen your writing skill. But seriesly you can't think that her writing is good for halo?

Yeah the characters develop a little more than you think but she basically forces her opinion on how making spartan II super soldiers is wrong. She then made Halsey look like a -blam!- as opposed to her actually the one having a conscious in this situation, which aggravates me because she actually cared for her spartans unlike the precious ONI angel Margaret who sent 12 year olds on suicide missions and outright killed her opposing people or made them disappear.

Her disregard for standing halo canon, instead of reading the books she feels like she can just conjure the universe from nothing and change it however see shes fit. As an author she has the right to do so and I understand;however, you can't just start spewing this and that without knowing actual canon. Lucy punchhed Halsey and all Halsey got was a broken nose. Thats a read flag she has no idea what the hell a spartan is! Regardless if it's a spartan II or III Lucy should have caved in her skull.

Do you know why she got kicked out of writing star wars fiction right?
She killed off a main character in the book. Flat out just bam! They're dead. This wasn't suppose to happen but lucasarts let it fly by and the fans practically revolted and she got kicked off from writing for them again. Do you want that to happen to halo? Or are you going to wait till Kelly dies from having her period....

let us see the red flags
Disregards canon and doesn't even read the lore enough to know about:check
Kills off main characters:check
Forces her views on the reader:check
Makes every character and whole toilet bowl potion of completly unneeded internal conflict:check

I don't want this amazing universe to be in the hands of some incompetent feminist who ruins good characters. I liked Nylund because he knew the universe well he created, and although his character development may have been little off, he got every other aspect of the universe down.
/end rant


Someone can only force their views upon you if you accept them. All Traviss is doing is presenting us with another way of looking at Halsey; a world away from the Mary Sue she was under Nylund. I like reading about Parangosky, Osman or Mal citing their hatred for her, because it's so obviously biased that it forms their character.

I still know Halsey isn't Mengale II, and from the backlash from people here for her being persecuted, it's pretty clear everyone else does too. Traviss doesn't NEED to write in the perspective of someone who believes Halsey isn't a bad person, because there are already tens of thousands of people who think this - the reader.

It's the same thing with the Sangheili. We know not every Sangheili hates humanity and some bonds were forged, so she doesn't need to write in the perspective of a Sangheili who loves us.

I think it's quite clever, because even if only subconsciously, when you're reading these contentious claims from characters in the book, you're disputing them - it actively engages the reader, and when I read the book it felt akin to a debate; a character would say something, and I'd think 'ah, but if you knew this you wouldn't say that.' Makes the characters feel more flawed and thus, more real.

Lucy's 5'2 and 70 kilos. She's tiny. I don't think Spartan IIIs are nearly as powerful as Spartan IIs anyway, Lucy especially. Her not being able to toss aside the dead Engineer or her punch not killing Halsey wasn't unbelievable for me - if she'd punched Halsey in the jaw or temple I'd have a problem, but the nose? I can imagine her surviving that.

I don't really care what she did with Star Wars, but I will say that killing a main character is in no way a bad thing - I wish more authors would do it, to be honest. It's why I love George RR Martin so much - he kills his main character at the end of the first book, and no one else is safe from his deadly quill.

Personally, I love Traviss' approach to the Haloverse. There might be a few tiny niggles in canon here and there, but Nylund's books contained loads, as did Staten's, Dietz' and Buckwell's, the latter two being a couple of the worst authors I've ever come across.

Traviss can write, she can make her characters distinct and interesting, and her dialogue is brilliant. I'll take her over Eric 'The Elite was as strong as the Master Chief' Nylund any day.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 8:46 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 8:44 AM PDT


Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: Wolverfrog
All Nylund was good at was technical writing - his description of space battles and the science behind the universe was great. Characters were fairly poor, giving us Mary Sues (like Halsey, who could do ANYTHING) or cookie-cutter generic heroes. A lot of his prose was pretty bad too.

I much prefer Traviss over him, I think her approach to the Halo universe is the best yet (with Greg Bear a close second place.) After the K-5 trilogy though, I don't think she should be brought back due to all the controversy she's caused.

It's a shame, but people will be people. Still haven't had a convincing argument as to why she's so terrible.
wut?

Wolverfrog I honestly still respect your opinion especially when it comes to writing. I was there when you posted on the halo wars forum and have seen your writing skill. But seriesly you can't think that her writing is good for halo?

Yeah the characters develop a little more than you think but she basically forces her opinion on how making spartan II super soldiers is wrong. She then made Halsey look like a -blam!- as opposed to her actually the one having a conscious in this situation, which aggravates me because she actually cared for her spartans unlike the precious ONI angel Margaret who sent 12 year olds on suicide missions and outright killed her opposing people or made them disappear.

You're misinterpretting the books. Parangosky openly admits that she is a bastard in Glasslands and will probably burn for it. Her problem with Halsey is that she used ONI funding to commit to an unauthorized project she felt Halsey only did so she could clear her own head. Which was illegal. Parangosky only brings up the ethical black hole that was the Spartan program to make her point about Halsey either being A) inadequete (why not just use the clones?), or B) selfish. Ethics is not why she arrested her, she arrested her for legal reasons.

Otherwise, everyone else who hates on Halsey hates her because they're getting the short and terrible version from files they've read about her. Take Traviss out of the equation, these people act like they do as they would given their situation. The ODSTs have no experience with Halsey beyond what the facts say she did during the Spartan program, and she did some obviously terrible things to get as far as she did. Traviss does not hate Halsey or make us want to hate Halsey, she can only write as the characters act, think and feel about their situations. Do not think of the author, only the characters matter here.


Her disregard for standing halo canon, instead of reading the books she feels like she can just conjure the universe from nothing and change it however see shes fit. As an author she has the right to do so and I understand;however, you can't just start spewing this and that without knowing actual canon. Lucy punchhed Halsey and all Halsey got was a broken nose. Thats a read flag she has no idea what the hell a spartan is! Regardless if it's a spartan II or III Lucy should have caved in her skull.

Traviss does not allow herself to go into a universe she has prior knowledge about so as to avoid the fanboy preconceived notions that many of you seem to have, but she does her research after getting a project. I think Frankie said that the letters they got asking questions were literally well over a thousand in number.

The point is, Lucy lashed out at Halsey, not how she did it matters. Only a nitpicker would bother with those details, becfause they are irrelevant to the story itself, which is probably why it was overlooked. I agree Halsey should be dead, but I get over the punch and see it merely as an attack.


Do you know why she got kicked out of writing star wars fiction right?
She killed off a main character in the book. Flat out just bam! They're dead. This wasn't suppose to happen but lucasarts let it fly by and the fans practically revolted and she got kicked off from writing for them again. Do you want that to happen to halo? Or are you going to wait till Kelly dies from having her period....

Which main character?

And this brings up another example of what I'm talking about. In doing her research, she can only know as much as the creators have created. The infamous "2-3million clones to protect the galaxy" debacle was in fact not Traviss' making, but Lucas' when he wrote that line in Episode II. The Prime Minister tells Obi-Wan that, in the last ten years since the project started, only "200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way." Given the projections of how long it took to make that army, they would only have about 2-3million clones by the time it was mentioned in the books.

Authors are limited by the creators, and only them. Sometimes it isn't always the authors' fault.


let us see the red flags
Disregards canon and doesn't even read the lore enough to know about:check
Kills off main characters:check
Forces her views on the reader:check
Makes every character and whole toilet bowl potion of completly unneeded internal conflict:check

I don't want this amazing universe to be in the hands of some incompetent feminist who ruins good characters. I liked Nylund because he knew the universe well he created, and although his character development may have been little off, he got every other aspect of the universe down.
/end rant


Some incompetent feminist? So because she writes internal conflict, and happens to be a woman, she's an incompetent feminist?

That makes perfect sense.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 9:14 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 9:12 AM PDT

Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N
Do you know why she got kicked out of writing star wars fiction right?
She killed off a main character in the book. Flat out just bam! They're dead. This wasn't suppose to happen but lucasarts let it fly by and the fans practically revolted and she got kicked off from writing for them again.


This isn't even close to accurate. Karen quit writing Star Wars novels because, ironically, she was angry about The Clone Wars contradicting what she had written about the Mandalorians. And while it was Traviss' idea to kill Mara, she didn't just go rogue and write her death without approval. This detail was agreed upon by all the LOTF authors and the people at Lucasfilm, before any of the books in the series were written. Timothy Zahn was apparently displeased that they killed Mara off without consulting him, but despite having created her, he doesn't actually own the character.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 10:12 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 10:07 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I'm fine with Karen so far. I really don't see the problem you guys have with her apart from some overlooked aspects, which your beloved god Eric Nylund also had. Why you bash her so hard for them, I don't understand.

If she were to be replaced, I feel that Tobias should be brought in. He redeemed himself from a mediocre novel that was Cole Protocol to bring out a masterpiece with Dirt in Evolutions. I'm confident he could continue the role since the final novel is vastly similar to what Dirt was.

  • 10.28.2012 10:53 AM PDT

My YouTube Channel
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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Posted by: ninjakenzenI'm not sure why you felt the need to write a novel stating the obvious, but okay.

So ONI never cared, right? And that's just the way it is? Nylund might as well have included a chapter that included enthusiastic mustache-twirling and tying a damsel in distress to some railroad tracks. They were always written as this one-dimensional evil organization, and it was boring.

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it be interesting to explore that dynamic? Kind of like what Traviss is doing?

Sure, Halsey feels bad toward the end, but she's a good person! She's always been a good person, and second guessing her actions only goes to further illustrate that. But no worries, everyone she knows thinks the highest of her, and her regrets only show just how great she is. It's almost like that girl who knows she's pretty saying she's ugly, just so her friends will swoop in with compliments and reassure her of her beauty.

Halsey good, ONI bad, and that's that.

Do you see how polarized that is? He was on the right track by starting to flesh out Halsey, but what was the point if every other character was there to enable her? That's what I've always been rambling about with perspective; you only get to see Halsey's and those closest to her.

Traviss did the series a service by writing in characters that didn't like her.

  • 10.28.2012 11:10 AM PDT

Friends before pixels.

As long as it's not Joseph Staten we're all good.

HE FORGETS WHICH ARM PONDER IS MISSING LIKE 4 TIMES

  • 10.28.2012 11:19 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: HipiO7
I'm fine with Karen so far. I really don't see the problem you guys have with her apart from some overlooked aspects, which your beloved god Eric Nylund also had. Why you bash her so hard for them, I don't understand.

If she were to be replaced, I feel that Tobias should be brought in. He redeemed himself from a mediocre novel that was Cole Protocol to bring out a masterpiece with Dirt in Evolutions. I'm confident he could continue the role since the final novel is vastly similar to what Dirt was.


You could read what ninjakenzen wrote to see why folks are upset.

And I'll be honest, Traviss is a huge hypocrite who shouldn't be talking about morality at all. She has said that she hates the idea of the Jedi being seen as the perfect good guys. And to a point I can agree with her, the Jedi aren't always good, we have since learned they had a secret prison for top-ranking Separatists threats. Yet she basically called people who thought like that as dangerous and thinking on the same level as slave-holders and -blam!-s due to some Jedi viewing the clones as "less than human".

Meanwhile blindly believing the Mandos are perfect, upstanding guys is perfectly fine...even though they have committed genocide more than once, you know, like the -blam!-s.

I cannot take her new stance on ONI suddenly growing a conscious and Halsey being the devil seriously when I know full well her sense of right and wrong is already skewed.


[Edited on 10.28.2012 11:21 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 11:20 AM PDT

It also strikes as odd that Admiral Parangosky, a woman who authorised sending 12 year old child soldiers on suicide missions, amongst other things, would be bothered by flash-cloning.
Additionally, no one ever pretended Halsey was a saint, but a number of traits seem to have been added to make her seem more sinister. For one, the Glasslands version of Halsey is shown to live by an Übermensch view of morality, considering herself as being Above Good and Evil, even noting a few times that she doesn't have a soul. She regards other people, like Jacob Keyes, as nothing more than curiosities in a scientific sense rather than genuinely caring about them. She's also constantly losing the blatant War on Straw with almost any character she happens to interact with, something which is in stark contrast with her sharp intellect shown in the previous novels. Indeed, even her intelligence is called into question - at one point she concludes that she was one of the greatest thinkers of the century, because "everyone had told her so." (apparently not because she really was smart or anything).
Dirty Business: Dr. Halsey, Mendez and Admiral Parangosky, though the tone of the novel seems to be more forgiving toward the latter two while focusing on Halsey's deeds.
Moral Dissonance: Admiral Parangosky has sent children to die by the hundreds, mercilessly eliminated all of her opposition, and is behind most of ONI's darkest projects we don't even know about. Chief Mendez has been on board with training the aforementioned Child Soldiers for over 20 years. Kilo-Five conspires against the Arbiter behind Lord Hood's back. Yet all of them seem to have the moral high ground whenever Dr. Halsey comes up, and Halsey's actions in the SPARTAN-II project outweigh everything anyone else has done.
Protagonist-Centered Morality: This trope is very much at play in Glasslands. The protagonists are shown as being morally righteous not just from their own perspective, but the entire fictional reality seems to bend to their moral views. Whenever they do something less moral (which is every so often), it's not that big a deal or it's justified as being for The Needs of the Many (or just not acknowledged at all). Meanwhile, the opposing side (Dr. Halsey) doesn't get much to say in her defense and the entire universe seems to be against her on a fundamental level.

All from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/HaloGlasslan ds?from=Main.HaloGlasslands

That's the issue. These guys are flipping out over Halsey, but have no problem literally going "-blam!- you Hood" and screwing what he is trying to do over.

Vaz HATES halsey, looks at S3's, knows what they are and about, and has no issues.

It's hypocritical at best.

Edit: The scanned trailer showed EXACTLY has the flash clones really were. Infact, before glasslands there was no reference that the flash clones were a secret IIRC. Everybody involved with the S2 project knew about it. And seriously, Parangosky hates Halsey for having a conscience and giving the families closure.

Traviss-parangosky seems to be under the impression that the Spartans CAN return to their families IIRC from glasslands. And that releasing ALL the S2 data to the public won't absolutely destroy the UNSC.

Sadly, I can't wait to see this 'self caused trial' Parangosky is going to put herself through. Because I KNOW from the trend it won't be her taking the blame beyond "I feel so guilty I couldn't stop Halsey from doing this stuff!" and basically blame it all on Halsey.

Oh, Ya'll should read the Series Continuity Error: part of that tropes page.


[Edited on 10.28.2012 11:27 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 11:22 AM PDT