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Subject: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?

Posted by: Primo84
Hate on Traviss all you want, but Eric Nylund is a terrible writer.
^^

where's the "ditch everyone and bring in new blood" option?

  • 10.28.2012 11:29 AM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.

Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.

  • 10.28.2012 11:29 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.


A scientist who butchered and killed prisoners in concentration camps for fun compared to a scientist who augmented kids to save the human race is apt?

  • 10.28.2012 11:32 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.


A scientist who butchered and killed prisoners in concentration camps for fun compared to a scientist who augmented kids to save the human race is apt?



Especially when said scientist who augmented kids also was VERY concerned about their welfare, did the best she could so they could survive, and cryo-froze every one that died with the hopes she could bring them back and heal them so at least they could live normal lives.

TOTALLY sounds like an evil -blam!- who danced around a lab gleefully experimenting on children.

  • 10.28.2012 11:36 AM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.


A scientist who butchered and killed prisoners in concentration camps for fun compared to a scientist who augmented kids to save the human race is apt?


Except Halsey didn't start the program to save the Human race. She started it to preserve the dictatorial UNSC and prevent the colonies from expressing their legitimate goal of independence.

The Covenant didn't come into the picture until much later.

  • 10.28.2012 11:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Sir Fragula

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.


A scientist who butchered and killed prisoners in concentration camps for fun compared to a scientist who augmented kids to save the human race is apt?


Except Halsey didn't start the program to save the Human race. She started it to preserve the dictatorial UNSC and prevent the colonies from expressing their legitimate goal of independence.

The Covenant didn't come into the picture until much later.
THANK YOU!

People seem to think that the Insurrection would have destroyed Humanity. The damage Germany did in WW2 on Earth is porportional to the damage the Innies have done in space.

It's brutal, yes, but it did not destroy our species.

HOWEVER, you have to give Halsey credit for coming to see the Spartans as MORE than just labratory experiments, UNLIKE Mengle.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 11:44 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 11:42 AM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

I feel like every thread about the Kilo-Five trilogy is just a continuation of an ongoing argument from a previous thread. And here comes Fragula, late to the party and bringing us back to square one.

That's funny.

  • 10.28.2012 11:43 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.

Just a quick question, but can you point me to Halsey's twin experiments? Or where Halsey sent people to death camps? Mengele was far, far worst than Halsey ever was.

  • 10.28.2012 11:43 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Sir Fragula

Except Halsey didn't start the program to save the Human race. She started it to preserve the dictatorial UNSC and prevent the colonies from expressing their legitimate goal of independence.


Funny, because Halsey was actually motivated by this project by the Carver Findings hinting that a prolonged civil war could plunge humanity into another Dark Age and end the lives of billions of humans...caused by humans themselves.

And as far as the legitimate goal of independence goes, is nuking a colony, blowing up civilian areas and hijacking ships really the best way to achieve that goal?

The Covenant didn't come into the picture until much later.

The Assembly saw that coming however.

  • 10.28.2012 11:44 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
THANK YOU!

People seem to think that the Insurrection would have destroyed Humanity. The damage Germany did in WW2 on Earth is porportional to the damage the Innies have done in space.


Except the Germans didn't have nukes that could affect an entire planet or FTL ships capable f delievering said nukes all across the human space.

It's brutal, yes, but it did not destroy our species.

Because the Covenant showed up before humans could.

  • 10.28.2012 11:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Sir Fragula

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.


A scientist who butchered and killed prisoners in concentration camps for fun compared to a scientist who augmented kids to save the human race is apt?


Except Halsey didn't start the program to save the Human race. She started it to preserve the dictatorial UNSC and prevent the colonies from expressing their legitimate goal of independence.

The Covenant didn't come into the picture until much later.


Yeah, because we should totally grant a state independance if the guys screaming for it are murdering civilians. This makes sense to you how?

And the assembly, and the one Carver guy's research pointed that guess what? The longer the rebels were allowed to exist, the MORE powerful and dangerous they would become. To the point of using FTL ships as WMD against the UNSC and basically ruining humanity.

Given that throughout even the Human covenant war they continued to frakking nuke and bomb civilians, I'm not surprised the Spartans were created to fight them.

Oh, and recall the Spartans were made because the UNSC DID NOT want a full scale war. They wanted to remove the rebel leaders with as little bloodshed as possible as I recall.

  • 10.28.2012 11:46 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
People seem to think that the Insurrection would have destroyed Humanity.


Halsey's motivation:
"Unless the political situation throughout the colonies is stabilized (preferably by force), the Government will collapse and civil war will rip human society apart." ~ Doctor Carver, 2491

The first episode of Forward Unto Dawn illustrates this quite nicely where Chyler is scrolling through the reports of Innie attacks on various colonies.

[Edited on 10.28.2012 11:48 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 11:46 AM PDT

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If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?

  • 10.28.2012 11:47 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Primo84

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?

So far, the Assembly has not been seen. Then again, they probably don't want to be seen. By the way, it was Reach, not ODST.

  • 10.28.2012 11:49 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Primo84

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?


They were in Reach, not ODST. I believe that is the only place they have been featured in the fiction.

  • 10.28.2012 11:49 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Primo84

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?


They weren't in ODST, they were in Reach. Yet it is irrelevant since they exist in the lore now. If 343i can make ILoveBees canon, so is this.

  • 10.28.2012 11:49 AM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?

By the way, it was Reach, not ODST.
That would explain why I never found any of the damn things during my second playthrough of ODST.

  • 10.28.2012 11:50 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Primo84

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Assembly saw that coming however.
Was The Assembly ever mentioned again after ODST?

So far, the Assembly has not been seen. Then again, they probably don't want to be seen. By the way, it was Reach, not ODST.


In the end, they unanimously decide to assume a more direct role in the continuation of humanity though. I hope they show up, the Data Pads were by far the most interesting aspect of Reach and I wouldn't want that to go to waste.

  • 10.28.2012 11:51 AM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.

Just a quick question, but can you point me to Halsey's twin experiments? Or where Halsey sent people to death camps? Mengele was far, far worst than Halsey ever was.


I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.

  • 10.28.2012 11:55 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ajw34307
In the end, they unanimously decide to assume a more direct role in the continuation of humanity though. I hope they show up, the Data Pads were by far the most interesting aspect of Reach and I wouldn't want that to go to waste.


I think Halsey references hearing something about a group of AIs in her journal, but I'm not sure.

  • 10.28.2012 11:56 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Sir Fragula

I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.


I don't think anybody is saying Halsey is a nice woman, simply that she isn't the evilest person in the galaxy as Traviss would have us believe.

  • 10.28.2012 11:57 AM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula

I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.


I don't think anybody is saying Halsey is a nice woman, simply that she isn't the evilest person in the galaxy as Traviss would have us believe.
Halsey wasn't portrayed as evil by Traviss. She was flawed, and we saw her through the eyes of other flawed characters.

I really don't want to go searching for a past reply to copy/paste.

  • 10.28.2012 12:03 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Sir Fragula

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.

Just a quick question, but can you point me to Halsey's twin experiments? Or where Halsey sent people to death camps? Mengele was far, far worst than Halsey ever was.


I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.

Halsey did good and bad things for the right reason. She wanted to save humanity from a potential civil war that would have ruined the colonies. The Innies may have wanted independence, but destroying cruise liners and nuking cities is not the way to do it. That is just terrorism.

Mengele, on the other hand, was not doing anything for any good reasons. There is a difference between wanting to prevent a civil war and butchering children and adults through cruel and inhumane experiments just because they are Jewish. Mengele never did anything that could be considered good.

Halsey created those clones to prevent suspicion and also for closure. Halsey cared about the Spartans like a mother, which is more than you can say about Parangosky.

  • 10.28.2012 12:05 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I feel Traviss to be strongly misanthropic and I don't think that attitude fits with Halo's themes or tone. For instance I don't feel the flanderization of the Elites or the caricaturization of Humanity is an example solely of poor research but also of the author's disposition to misanthropic diatribe.

Nylund is meh, but the lesser of two evils in my opinion. I feel that at least with him, whilst the characters won't be great, that the Halo fiction's overall identity will still remain intact at the end of it.

  • 10.28.2012 12:16 PM PDT


Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Sir Fragula

I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.


I don't think anybody is saying Halsey is a nice woman, simply that she isn't the evilest person in the galaxy as Traviss would have us believe.
Halsey wasn't portrayed as evil by Traviss. She was flawed, and we saw her through the eyes of other flawed characters.

I really don't want to go searching for a past reply to copy/paste.


Look at my past page. She's treated as being evil and morally wrong, and the guys on 'moral high ground' are far worse.


Posted by: Sir Fragula

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Sir Fragula
Personally I think Glasslands is the best written Halo book since Fall of Reach. The comparison of Halsey to Mengle is completely apt.

Just a quick question, but can you point me to Halsey's twin experiments? Or where Halsey sent people to death camps? Mengele was far, far worst than Halsey ever was.


I said the comparison was apt, not exact. If you were to compare Gary Glitter to Jimmy Savile it would also be apt even though the two's crimes are different in scope.

Halsey created 75 living, breathing Human clones whose sole purpose was to die. She wasn't a nice woman and frankly she's never been portrayed as one.


She created 75 clones so the families would have CLOSURE. Instead of sitting there constantly wondering what became of their child, they would have a funeral, and move on. It wouldn't be years of putting posters on street lamps "Have you see my child john?"

Morally questionable yes. Evil? perhaps. Not nice? maybe.

But the INTENT was good.

No, Halsey isn't nice. But she is not evil, and not near the level of comparison there. Glasslands, as the trope page says, points that basically she did the Spartans because of scientific curiousity and "I wonder..." instead of seeing the data and going "This is the only way we can go that doesn't involve massive bloodshed." as well as being hired by ONI to make the Spartans.

Glasslands shoves a "HALSEY IS EVIL AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK THAT" viewpoint :/.

Edit: Oh yeah, she also paints the picture that it's basically impossible to have an elite-human peace.

Yet at the same time, she shows us a human colony which did declare itself independant near the end of the war, and it has humans, jackals, brutes, and I think even grunts living together peacefully.

If the three races KNOWN for eating humans can live with a human neighbor, why can't elites?

[Edited on 10.28.2012 12:29 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2012 12:26 PM PDT