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  • Subject: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?
Subject: Do You Feel Karen should be replaced by another Author?

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Posted by: jack0fhearts
So there you have it. Halsey is devolved magically through shoddy writing to a gun-wielding psychopathic bully
You can't be serious.

That didn't even happen in the passage you provided. Just because Lucy was keeping an eye on Halsey's sidearm doesn't mean that she pulled it out and started waving it around, or that she even considered doing so.

I just...how are you still sticking to that even after showing that it clearly didn't happen?

  • 10.31.2012 5:56 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

1. Halsey had her hand on her gun.
2. Halsey provokes the Huragok by going for the button, challenging them to stop her.
3. Halsey tells them that she "doesn't want to hurt them" but that she knows how to use the pistol.

Yes, I am dead serious. I honestly can't believe that you cannot see how even that is far below Halsey's MO.

  • 10.31.2012 6:58 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

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Posted by: jack0fhearts
1. Halsey had her hand on her gun.
2. Halsey provokes the Huragok by going for the button, challenging them to stop her.
3. Halsey tells them that she "doesn't want to hurt them" but that she knows how to use the pistol.

Yes, I am dead serious. I honestly can't believe that you cannot see how even that is far below Halsey's MO.
Baaaah....I read over it again, and I missed it.

I still think you're blowing it out of proportion though.

  • 10.31.2012 7:19 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: Oblivion328
Posted by: Darthbill99
I enjoy'd Traviss's books, but I really do feel like she pushes her own agenda too much with it. She clearly hates Halsey, and seems to do her best to ensure the reader does too. I also hate nearly all her characters, like strawman Vaz, and the vindictive hagraven Parandoski, while I feel like I'm not supposed to. Idk, but at least Eric didn't try to tell you what to think.


She does that in pretty much everything she writes. Her Star Wars books were always about how Mandalorians are awesome and Jedi suck.
I actually really liked her starwars books, but is has been a very long time since I've read them. Probably just because I really like mandos

  • 10.31.2012 8:12 PM PDT


Posted by: SonicJohn
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but:

The issue you have with the story is not Traviss. It is Frankie and the rest of the 343i team.

Traviss is merely pouring water into buckets already fleshed out and outlined by 343's writing team. I honestly do not believe that this is her fault (after all, on the basis of my father's extreme reading habits, he absolutely adored her previous work).

So if there's no action, empty plotlines, irritating filler, it's unavoidable for her to have avoided that. There's only so much artistic license you can have as a contracted author.

It's the same issue I had with the Forerunner books. It's not the authors; it's the plot. It's hard to fill in the gaps in an exciting way. I believe they were actually technically well written, but plot content is definitely poor.

Although, on the whole, I believe the stories are okay, but I'm sure that there's a lot of magic missed and lost in the communication between the team and the authors. Another person's vision is hard to achieve.


The writers actually have a whole lot more control over the stories they're writing than you think. Yes there are outlines given, but not as in depth as you seem to think they are. Every single one of the Elites being evil human-haters is not 343i's vision, that is completely and totally Traviss taking what she was told and running with it and taking it over-board. Like I imagine she was told to have a civil war start up amongst the Elites due to some being dissatisfied with the Arbiter, and that this would lead to the origins and creation of the Storm Covenant (who are the ones who do wish to continue fighting humans)....however, all of the Elites turning on the Arbiter and sharing the exact same opinion as the Storm, that humans need to be exterminated, is a conclusion that Traviss leap to all on her own and not from 343i. Just as Halsey being made into a simpering weakling that'll roll over for anyone is also Traviss, and Mendez inexplicable hating Halsey and deciding she's the devil incarnate and all of the other vilifying and character assassination that Traviss did with Halsey. Halsey being imprisoned, however, I'm sure is a possibility that came from 343i...but not the reasons for it happening.

Posted by: MasterSin
The thing is, she writes what she's told to write, it wouldn't really matter if they pick another writer, but I do believe Eric Nylund would do a way better job than hers.


That's only true to an extent. The writers are only given a bare-bones summary and it's completely their responsibility to flesh out all of the details. Like Glasslands Trilogy for instance, Traviss would have been told to have the Sangheili Civil War and about Jul who would become the leader of the Storm Covenant and how he would be working with the revolutionaries before going on to found the Storm Covenant. The writers are only told the basics...all of the details and the fleshing out of the story comes from whoever the writer is. So while yes there would still probably be a Sangheili Civil War, and Jul would still go on to found the Storm...the details of that would be better treated. Like for instance most of the Elites would be supporting the Arbiter and sharing his views on humanity, the one who actively still want humans dead would compose the minority, same with those who want to get rid of Thel. And Halsey would also not be demonized and all of the characters would remain true to their established personalities.

  • 10.31.2012 9:44 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

I really don't think I am, Primo. The things that Halsey "did" there are not things that a top-level ONI scientist (civilian or no,) would do; much less THE top Forerunner expert for the UNSC. Halsey would have known exactly what the Huragok were (in fact, didn't she encounter them in First Strike?) and would have known that they wouldn't respond complacently to threats.

And that's not even touching the mess that follows with Lucy's actions...

Posted by: OrderedComa
Halsey being imprisoned, however, I'm sure is a possibility that came from 343i...but not the reasons for it happening.


Indeed, we all likely knew that Halsey would be imprisoned for going rogue to save Kelly's life. Yet what we did not see, as I'm sure Coma would agree, is Halsey being then seen as some terrorist who hijacks any ship she can get her hands on, not to mention the other ridiculous accusations.

And for the inevitable responses to Halsey not being demonized, it is entirely possible for her to be held accountable for actual crimes without being made into this huge, evil, AI murdering baby-stealing Baba Yaga monster.

[Edited on 11.01.2012 12:17 AM PDT]

  • 10.31.2012 10:09 PM PDT

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Posted by: ninjakenzen


*applause*

  • 11.01.2012 6:32 AM PDT

Karen should go, I agree she can't balance different points of view, loses threads in the story, and doesn't know the Halo universe.

No matter what you think of Halsey, if you removed most of the references about how evil she is, Glasslands would be 100 pages shorter. Saying she is evil over and over and over and over again is boring.

The outline of the book makes sense for what would happen next; Elite civil war, Innie problems, etc. The major plot points from 343 are good, I just don't agree with their choice of author.

  • 11.01.2012 8:06 AM PDT

Honestly I ejnoy both of their writing styles. Eric's was more descriptive while Karen's is more fast paced.

But Karen messed with the already established characters way to much, especially Halsey.

[Edited on 11.01.2012 11:29 AM PDT]

  • 11.01.2012 11:29 AM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

I don't think Traviss messed with Halsey that much, I think she just went much further than we've seen and further than what we're used to. I think much of Halsey being such a villain is ONI propaganda... because, at the time, they didn't have her. When they got her, they needed to instill that fear that at any moment she would be executed or put in solitary.

Although I love Nylunds work, it was a bit dry. Traviss is really turning things around, and that's a good thing. What's important is that nothing gets broken. You can't keep any franchise going if you try to keep everyone happy, or even a certain sector happy all the time. If you make people angry you're doing the right thing.

  • 11.01.2012 2:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: SirPwn4g3
I don't think Traviss messed with Halsey that much, I think she just went much further than we've seen and further than what we're used to. I think much of Halsey being such a villain is ONI propaganda... because, at the time, they didn't have her. When they got her, they needed to instill that fear that at any moment she would be executed or put in solitary.
Halsey and Cortana have the same brain, literally, we know how Halsey would behave from more than the books. The only noteworthy difference prior to aquiring the Forerunner knowladge within Halo, is that Cortana doesn't--if logic isn't a liar again--feel old or tired; she's like a hyperactive Halsey, but a Halsey none the less. Why would Halsey's behaviour be any different to Cortanas in the long run? Why would Cortana change significantly over the maximum course of three years? Even though she might think faster and therefore have lived longer, it can't have been long enough to turn her from being the unhinged psychopath Halsey is made out to be before Cortana was born, or is there any logic to what I'm saying? If anything she's a sociopathic narcissist.

[Edited on 11.01.2012 3:44 PM PDT]

  • 11.01.2012 3:38 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

One argument I'd like to address:

Traviss's depiction of Halsey can be justified if it is under the grounds that we are seeing the perspective of a very biased sources, but this is not the whole story.

For one, Parangosky knows the whole story. She knows she sent hundreds of children on suicide missions, and she still somehow thinks she is justified in bringing out the morality card on Halsey. Ridiculous.

Secondly, Halsey, nor Naomi for that matter, stick up for Halsey! In that brief scene in the entire book that depicted Halsey talking, she seemed to be a stuttering child who knew nothing. She bought into BB's deceit about 4th gen AIs being made by other AIs? Really?! The smartest woman in the entire UNSC, who can match up to smart AIs and whose very brain is used for their construction, is fooled by such simpleton deceit by an AI?

Also, there is no way Naomi would stand for the vitriolic behavior toward Halsey. Halsey is Naomi's mother for all intents and purposes, so it is completely unbelievable a highly intelligent woman's entire perception of a mother figure can be distorted so greatly with no dumbass ODSTs.

Traviss's worst crime is mischaracterizing.

  • 11.01.2012 4:29 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Not to mention Kelly being nearly as silent as the grave. I mean by thunder, Halsey literally saved Kelly's life.

  • 11.01.2012 5:03 PM PDT

They call me the Polish Ninja.

Karen NEEDS to go. Her views of Halsey and the universe are utterly biased and simply put, stupid. Also, does anyone find her constant obsession of bringing up Naomi's father as a major annoyance?

  • 11.02.2012 2:12 AM PDT

I was thinking the same thing as far as Cortana and Halsey coming from the same brain.

Makes you wonder, what'll happen when Halsey dies someday and they make an AI, Cortana 2.0?

  • 11.02.2012 6:31 AM PDT


Posted by: ZTurulski
Karen NEEDS to go. Her views of Halsey and the universe are utterly biased and simply put, stupid. Also, does anyone find her constant obsession of bringing up Naomi's father as a major annoyance?


Yeah, the fact she claims to not do research so she isn't biased is funny as heck.

And I find it very annoying and stupid. EVERYBODY in the Team is constantly going "Is this okay, do you need to sit this out? How do you feel?"

Well, the "how do you feel about this" would make sense from the ODST's... once. I mean, Chief talked to basically a childhood girlfriend, wasn't phased at all. Naomi learns her dad is alive, she and everybody else suddenly get uneasy... (True, the fact they may have to shoot her dad factors into it.. but it's being mad into WAY too big a deal).

  • 11.02.2012 6:31 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum

Overall, I think she did fine with Jul Mdama's story. Paves the way for why the Covenant are at Requiem.

Anyone else think that Jul is gonna turn into Truth 2.0? They both lied to their allies in significant ways, both hate humanity to the point of genocide, both willing to do just about anything to achieve that genocide..

Be interesting to see what Thel does about all this in the sequel to Thursday War.

  • 11.02.2012 6:35 AM PDT


Posted by: Atomic Tea
Overall, I think she did fine with Jul Mdama's story. Paves the way for why the Covenant are at Requiem.

Anyone else think that Jul is gonna turn into Truth 2.0? They both lied to their allies in significant ways, both hate humanity to the point of genocide, both willing to do just about anything to achieve that genocide..

Be interesting to see what Thel does about all this in the sequel to Thursday War.


The problem is... Jul DOESN'T have to lie to any elites.

He has information that damns the Abiding Truth. He has information that damns humanity. Both sides of the elite 'civil war' have him stating their leadership is dumb/dealing with the humans and humans only want Elite corpses.

My real problem with his story is how utterly bird-brained/derp-faced the doctor was and how that let Jul escape. The best part of Thursday War was Parangosky punishing that doctor. Her shining moment of intelligence in the kilo 5 books.

  • 11.02.2012 7:18 AM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

AS for why would Halsey and Cortana deviate from each others behavior? It's a mechanism of the cloning. Similar to the flash clones of the Spartans dying off. Halsey went through several clones before she found one that worked, and even though Cortana is based off of Halsey, they have both been leading entirely different lives.

I respect Traviss' choice in not doing research, I think it's a bit odd, but I kinda like it.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to love Traviss or hate Nylund, I like both and we all have different tastes but here's an interesting though... what if Nylund wrote his books with a villainous tone to Halsey, but the Spartans, mostly, still love her... but then Traviss came along and treated her as a hero?

For the record, I still think what Halsey did was wrong, but it's more of a grey area under the circumstances. Is she a bit crazy? Yes, but she's doing it for the greater good, many don't really see that, she has an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, sometimes it may get the better of her. We've never really seen her around all these new toys, and that's something to consider.

  • 11.02.2012 8:41 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Atomic Tea
Overall, I think she did fine with Jul Mdama's story. Paves the way for why the Covenant are at Requiem.

Anyone else think that Jul is gonna turn into Truth 2.0? They both lied to their allies in significant ways, both hate humanity to the point of genocide, both willing to do just about anything to achieve that genocide..

Be interesting to see what Thel does about all this in the sequel to Thursday War.


The problem is... Jul DOESN'T have to lie to any elites.

He has information that damns the Abiding Truth. He has information that damns humanity. Both sides of the elite 'civil war' have him stating their leadership is dumb/dealing with the humans and humans only want Elite corpses.

My real problem with his story is how utterly bird-brained/derp-faced the doctor was and how that let Jul escape. The best part of Thursday War was Parangosky punishing that doctor. Her shining moment of intelligence in the kilo 5 books.

I was laughing rather hard at that point as well. As soon as the doctor says "Yeah, you can go outside..with some restrictions of course." I just knew it wasn't going to end well. Parangosky made a real error with her. Having an Elite prisoner is risky enough, but letting it out of the cage is just retarded.

  • 11.02.2012 8:57 AM PDT
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Totally awesome!

Fall of Reach is still my favorite.

  • 11.02.2012 12:36 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: SirPwn4g3
I respect Traviss' choice in not doing research, I think it's a bit odd, but I kinda like it.


When it comes to something like this... why?

Is she a bit crazy? Yes, but she's doing it for the greater good,

Crazy how?

  • 11.02.2012 12:56 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

To break it down:

Nylund would describe a Sangheili taking a rifle slug to the brain, first by analyzing the composition of the rifle, second by describing the aerodynamic effects of the slug and finally by detailing the varying shades of blood whistling through the hole in the back of his newly perforated skull.

Dietz would describe the exact same sentence, but entirely devoid of any entertainment.

Traviss would completely gloss over the firefight, instead focusing on why the Spartan doing the shooting is pissed off at Halsey for giving her these awesome augmentations, whilst simultaneously lamenting that terror tactics are such a disgusting human quality and that they should learn to be more like the Sangheili in terms of martial prowess. The internal monologue lasts ten times longer than the firefight itself, and is only recalled when the character casually mentions that it's over.

Bear would rather focus on why the guy is doing the shooting in the first place, finding introspection only when the battle is over but still only finding the time to poetically describe every shot in brief glimpses - keeping the technical details deliberately esoteric.


Saw this on another forum and I thought I'd share. It's well said.

  • 11.02.2012 11:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: flamedude
To break it down:

Nylund would describe a Sangheili taking a rifle slug to the brain, first by analyzing the composition of the rifle, second by describing the aerodynamic effects of the slug and finally by detailing the varying shades of blood whistling through the hole in the back of his newly perforated skull.

Dietz would describe the exact same sentence, but entirely devoid of any entertainment.

Traviss would completely gloss over the firefight, instead focusing on why the Spartan doing the shooting is pissed off at Halsey for giving her these awesome augmentations, whilst simultaneously lamenting that terror tactics are such a disgusting human quality and that they should learn to be more like the Sangheili in terms of martial prowess. The internal monologue lasts ten times longer than the firefight itself, and is only recalled when the character casually mentions that it's over.

Bear would rather focus on why the guy is doing the shooting in the first place, finding introspection only when the battle is over but still only finding the time to poetically describe every shot in brief glimpses - keeping the technical details deliberately esoteric.


Saw this on another forum and I thought I'd share. It's well said.

Seems like everyone is on Space battles -_-

  • 11.03.2012 1:05 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Posted by: flamedude
To break it down:

Nylund would describe a Sangheili taking a rifle slug to the brain, first by analyzing the composition of the rifle, second by describing the aerodynamic effects of the slug and finally by detailing the varying shades of blood whistling through the hole in the back of his newly perforated skull.

Dietz would describe the exact same sentence, but entirely devoid of any entertainment.

Traviss would completely gloss over the firefight, instead focusing on why the Spartan doing the shooting is pissed off at Halsey for giving her these awesome augmentations, whilst simultaneously lamenting that terror tactics are such a disgusting human quality and that they should learn to be more like the Sangheili in terms of martial prowess. The internal monologue lasts ten times longer than the firefight itself, and is only recalled when the character casually mentions that it's over.

Bear would rather focus on why the guy is doing the shooting in the first place, finding introspection only when the battle is over but still only finding the time to poetically describe every shot in brief glimpses - keeping the technical details deliberately esoteric.


Saw this on another forum and I thought I'd share. It's well said.
I agree.Posted by: SirPwn4g3
AS for why would Halsey and Cortana deviate from each others behavior? It's a mechanism of the cloning. Similar to the flash clones of the Spartans dying off. Halsey went through several clones before she found one that worked, and even though Cortana is based off of Halsey, they have both been leading entirely different lives.
"I successfully excised all brains from their bodily shells and placed them in cryogenic units. Only seven weeks until my personality transfer is completed" ~Dr.C.E.Halsey

Halsey would never dream of creating something that could have a different agenda than her own, and the potential of being more influential.

Cortana is heavily altered, yes (we know this because she manifestly isn't as obsolete as Kalmiya), but her personality is still the same. The A.Is consist of various parts, like ethics for isntance.

Underlined: and how long was that again?

[Edited on 11.03.2012 6:32 AM PDT]

  • 11.03.2012 1:55 AM PDT