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Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3... Pleas...
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I don't see why the Havok physics engine couldn't accomodate different terrain friction values as well. Maybe its just coincidence that Halo 2 didn't feature any slippery ice patches. To be honest, I didn't at all like the weightless feel of the in-house physics engine that Bungie built into Halo. Everything just felt too loose to work well for me.

I guess that when I refer to the possibility of seeing a realtime weather system in Halo 3, I'm not asking for ice patches to dynamically form and morph the terrain or anything lofty like that; I'm really just asking for some randomly-generated lifelike cloud activity, lightning and thunder and rainfall. It's certainly been done well before in games such as Oblivion, for example. Certainly to an extent this could be done with snowfall in the game, too, with blizzards, visibility values and whatnot.

  • 06.30.2006 10:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: locust
I don't see why the Havok physics engine couldn't accomodate different terrain friction values as well. Maybe its just coincidence that Halo 2 didn't feature any slippery ice patches. To be honest, I didn't at all like the weightless feel of the in-house physics engine that Bungie built into Halo. Everything just felt too loose to work well for me.

I guess that when I refer to the possibility of seeing a realtime weather system in Halo 3, I'm not asking for ice patches to dynamically form and morph the terrain or anything lofty like that; I'm really just asking for some randomly-generated lifelike cloud activity, lightning and thunder and rainfall. It's certainly been done well before in games such as Oblivion, for example. Certainly to an extent this could be done with snowfall in the game, too, with blizzards, visibility values and whatnot.


Yes. That is what I was thinking.

  • 06.30.2006 10:37 AM PDT
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I am gonna go from a different angle of debate here, most people hated backwash with its dagobah effects. SO while its a good theory in your head, it doesnt always turn out to peoples liking, but in game I dont think they argue, but in MP they do.

Personally I liked it and I dig your idea, but just from the removal and hatred towards that map in MP I dont know how it would fair, and I do think it was done very well.

Just a quick thought anyhow.


The main reason people disliked Backwash was the lack of starting grenades, not because of the Fog. Furthermore, the fog wasn't dynamic and changing; it was always there (though it's worth noting that it was required because the Xbox didn't have the power to handle rendering the whole map at once, and why some more eye candy (probably water) was removed)

  • 06.30.2006 11:14 AM PDT

Realtime Dynamic Weather (RDW, I suppose) would be appealing, especially for multiplayer. I wouldn't mind if they didn't put it in campaign, because in campaign, they want the weather to give a feel to the battlefield you're on.
Multiplayer, on the otherhand, is a whole different story. Having dark clouds that could block out the sun would be perfect for helping a darker-armored blue guy sneak into the red base. It would also set the mood if, before an invasion, the sky began to crackle and rain as warthogs and Ghosts charged.

Problem un would be that hackers would probably take advantage of said effects, and use them unfairly. Obviously, such a setback isn't large since the banhammer has only become lighter to wield but harder in yield. I imagine that by the winter of '07 (that's when I imagine this'll be released), the banhammer would catch someone as soon as they do the cheat, and that would make the world of online gameplay a better place...

I'm off track though. I'd love a RDW program in multiplayer maps, and I'd love it even more if it were in campaign. But if it affects what space Bungie has for implementing plot and gameplay, I would ditch it.

  • 06.30.2006 11:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halo 2 Rookie
Realtime Dynamic Weather (RDW, I suppose) would be appealing, especially for multiplayer. I wouldn't mind if they didn't put it in campaign, because in campaign, they want the weather to give a feel to the battlefield you're on.
Multiplayer, on the otherhand, is a whole different story. Having dark clouds that could block out the sun would be perfect for helping a darker-armored blue guy sneak into the red base. It would also set the mood if, before an invasion, the sky began to crackle and rain as warthogs and Ghosts charged.

Problem un would be that hackers would probably take advantage of said effects, and use them unfairly. Obviously, such a setback isn't large since the banhammer has only become lighter to wield but harder in yield. I imagine that by the winter of '07 (that's when I imagine this'll be released), the banhammer would catch someone as soon as they do the cheat, and that would make the world of online gameplay a better place...

I'm off track though. I'd love a RDW program in multiplayer maps, and I'd love it even more if it were in campaign. But if it affects what space Bungie has for implementing plot and gameplay, I would ditch it.


Agreed. But, I wonder why people disagree to put new features into the game. Because "it may interfere with plot and gameplay." It REALLY wouldn't take that long if you think about it. If you have just 2 guys who knew what they were doing it'd probably take less than a week to implement one of the coolest features of Multiplayer. So, why not?

  • 06.30.2006 11:31 AM PDT
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yes to hdr lighting, obviously. no to dynamic weather. I want to see the campaign as it was intended to be seen by bungie. besides, there would only be 1, maybe 2 weather changes throughout an entire level. In other words, envrionmental weather effects are good, when pre-programmed by bungie and put into specific parts where it fits.

multiplayer is a whole other story. I would say no to dynamic weather change because imagine how annoying it would be playing multiplayer if you didnt like certain weather effects. what if i dont like rain? what if i just want to play a normal game like from halo 1 and 2 and playin the environment already pre-programmed into the level?

should we be able to choose weather and time of day for the map before the game starts? sure, i think that would be a nice addition. should it change dynamically? please no.

  • 06.30.2006 11:32 AM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3... Pleas...
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If Bungie can implement HDR, then it would only help the game. I can picture Containment, clear skies, then a huge blizzard comes along. Same as on Lockout, or any other level.

Lockout-Blizzards, light snow fall, medium snow fall, fog
Sanctuary-Rain, heavy rain, fog, thunderstorms
Containment-Blizzards, light snowfall, medium snowfall,
Warlock-Rain, heavy rain, fog, thunderstorms
Burial Mounds-Rain, heavy rain, sand storms, meteor showers
Foundation-Rain, heavy rain, fog.
Ivory tower- (on the outside)Rain, heavy rain, fog, thunderstorms

cant think of ne more levels for weather

  • 06.30.2006 12:22 PM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3... Pleas...
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Wow, dude, I was just reading this... the whole time, I was imagining how awesome it would be to be fighting in Coagulation and having sloshy dirt everywhere, and thunder overhead... crazy. They should also put in some cool Ice, and snow effects to go along with HDR like they did in DoD: Source. If you look at snow levels in Call of Duty 2, the snowflakes are falling everywhere and it's awesome.(This would also be sweet in H3) Maybe, they can like put in volumetric smoke... like the Z-Feather smoke in CoD2. Lastly, definately some cool ass explosions and particle effects.

  • 06.30.2006 1:07 PM PDT
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i may be wishing a little too hard here, but what if you were playing a game of oddball or something like that [or even hide-and-seek] while it was snowing. you'd leave footprints, right? but what if, after a while, the snow filled your footprints up? or snow would pile up on top of master chief and would be cast off when he began moving again?

maybe i'm thinking a little too far ahead, but that's just a subtle touch that would be cool.

  • 06.30.2006 1:46 PM PDT
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Yeah that sounds awsome, it would be cool to have some night levels in the game also. Or make it so that way you have the option of what time of day and wether you want it to cycle to other weathers or not.

  • 06.30.2006 1:55 PM PDT
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This has been suggested around 100 times before. Some racing games allow you too change the time of day/ weather, so why not an FPS right?

Recently GRAW players got a nice bonus when Ubistoft released 4 re-lit versions of maps that already existed for the 360. I'm not sure how much different they played, because I haven't played them, but the idea is sound.

For the Multiplayer, instead of the weather changing randomly why not let the player decide? A completely dynamic weather system would be too much work, but if you could decide between Blood Gulch normal and Blood Gulch thunderstorm or something similar, that would be acceptable.

As for the Single Player Campaign, why not just have an unlockable "alternate mode" that has all the level re-lit and some with different weather. This would provide more re-playability, save time by skipping a complicated weather system, and save disc space, since except for the lighting and weather effects the levels would be exactley the same.

  • 06.30.2006 2:33 PM PDT
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I agree, day and night conditions sounds like a great idea for Multiplayer as well; I think this would be best left as a settings option, or maybe something that could change as a result of how long the game was dragged out or a reflection of the current time on the game host's console.

  • 06.30.2006 3:22 PM PDT
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Just trying to keep this up.

  • 07.01.2006 10:07 AM PDT
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Up.

  • 07.03.2006 9:15 AM PDT
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Wow, these are some really great ideas, but i had an idea a while back that could possibly help, but some of its explanation isnt weather effects, just bear with me

I call this pretty much an Computer Action Effect, the computer selects a random time in the match, it doesnt matter when, that imagine you are running along a wall in a map like turf, its in the city, then bullets spring up all around you but dont hit you, you look to your
right and you see a marine jump out of the level, later you hear a sniper shot, you look to where its coming from and its outside the level, you can see the wisp of smoke..

This idea is just a prescripted action that could happen at anytime in a match, and for your idea, say that the computer randomly selects thunderstrikes!

It would be programmed not to hit anyone, the computer could do that, imagine from the Ideal Science stuff that runs this, if they can run this they can do my idea.

I came up with a coupl;e cool things the computer could do.
The actions however would always pertain to the map

Using some old maps as examples-

-Turf-

-Rocket explosion, wouldnt harm anyone
-Any prescripted gun fire

-For weather patterns-

-Thunder strike
-Rain would puddle and it would splash when rain hit it [ not really my idea based ]
-Changing cloud patterns


Im pretty much out of ideas

  • 07.03.2006 9:50 AM PDT
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i think the reason that bungie is emphasizing HDR so much is because they want to do something with lightening and how it will affect the environment. u can kinda see an example of it in the trailer.

  • 07.03.2006 9:51 AM PDT
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I just think it would be a good idea, not to hard, just adds to the realism, but for your guys idea, i think it would bee cool if they could have stuff that wouldnt neccesarily be real, imagine on a covenant map, on maybe a different planet, they have some awesome electric plasma storm! that would be sweet, just running along and then the thunder hits the top of the base and gets conducted to the ground or something, and it lights up purple!, that would be sweet.

  • 07.03.2006 9:54 AM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3!
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Posted by: locust
Hey there! I just want to share some different suggestions and ideas that I've had for awhile regarding Halo 3. I'm not claiming to be the first to have spun them up, but I feel that I want to share them, and hopefully maybe even a few people from Bungie might stop by and at least take a look.

Feel free to comment or add your own opinions or thoughts as well!

HDR Lighting:

I've read that Bungie is busy implementing High Dynamic Range lighting into the engine. With the sorts of detailed varieties of signature civilized and desolate martian landscapes and environments that make up the Halo series, I know this is going to great if done properly, I can tell. Hopefully the studio is planning on implementing something similar to the sort of HDR that's seen in the Half-Life 2 Episodes, which is a great standard to cite as an example of HDR lighting done properly.

Realtime Dynamic Weather:

I really don't know whether or not this has yet to be officially mentioned, but a realtime weather system really seems like the next logical leap to make in regard to added realism. I imagine that it would most definately be possible to build each map in the Singleplayer Campaign so that the weather programmed for it would loosely obey some sort of prescripted instructions as to the map's intended environment; but then when it came down to it, loading up and playing the same map multiple times would yield different weather-related results.

Imagine: The player would be dropped into an overcast level, for example, with scattered clouds gathering overhead. I don't know if this is possible to achieve on the Xbox 360 hardware or not, but volumetric clouds could be programmed into the engine and given rain-conductive properties, which would allow for some really randomized dynamic behavior. Can you imagine this working in tandem with the HDR lighting system? Here you are, the player, fending off strings of enemy forces on the ground, while clouds are moving in from the east overhead. The ground grows darker, as the clouds slowly block the sun from view, rays diffusing and blooming from between the last remaining cracks. Suddenly a flash of lightning streaks across the sky, and a deafening roar of thunder is heard. Rain begins to fall by the bucketload, and the tides of the battle suddenly flip as your range of vision decreases substantially and mist begins to swell up from the dirt and grass; this would take replayability to an absolute whole new level!

Regarding Multiplayer Mode, could the HDR and realtime weather effects described above be implemented into online and offline multiplayer gameplay as well? The game host's console could give all of the server-side instructions to the other players' systems, and everyone would play under the same evolving environment conditions. Do you know how seriously cool this would be? Terrain vehicles like Warthogs and Scorpion tanks that were gaining the upper edge on the opposing team not five minutes ago suddenly begin to squeal and lose their traction as the ground begins to shine with moisture and previously stable collision and physics properties slowly turn the surface into mud; and now the frictionless Ghost suddenly becomes the vehicle of choice for the time being.

Nature has its way with the combatants on the field as well, and the sniper perched in the rocky alcoves high above the map picking off the other players slowly begins to lose his deadly aim as the storm settles in, the rain rendering visibility poor and fogging up and distorting the scope lense of his rifle and forcing him to scavange for a more close-range firearm. Another player was not so careful to recognize the sounds of lightning, and mistakes the far-off rumbling of thunder for a nearby explosion, rushing into a fray of deadly enemy fire. This would be insane!

What do you think about this?




Very good post.I love the weather idea.That would be awesome for multiplayer.And i agree with the HDR lighting.I loved the way it was used in Half-Life 2 episode 1,and it would be great to see something similar in Halo 3.

  • 07.03.2006 9:58 AM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3... Pleas...
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I dont know wabout randomized..I would really love to see it have weather options..say in like Madden..but of course next gen weather..now that would be cool.

  • 07.03.2006 10:06 AM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3!
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On a different note, wouldnt weather effects be really awesome if they affected things besides the terrrain? That would be awesome, maybe on a Metroid Prime note, the rain would catch on the visor or something, and maybe your weapon would malfunction! Plasma weapons might have an effect of being wet or something, like occasionally they botch a shot which causes huge amounts of kick to it!

That would be really cool if it was snowy to the pooint it was icy and you would slip and slide on metal, adding a bit of strategy to the battles,

And for anyone who is against this idea, and you think it would be annoying , it would be a great way to diversify the matches, making them even more different everytime, like for instance, i played the same match on live 3 times in a row and it got boring, so this would cause players to have to be REAL good , ro maybe they could get good in only one type weather system,
It would add a bit of realism without taking away from the core of Halos gameplay.

  • 07.03.2006 10:11 AM PDT
Subject: Suggestions for HDR and Realtime Dynamic Weather in Halo 3... Pleas...
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Posted by: kennyw00dis0pen
Wow, these are some really great ideas, but i had an idea a while back that could possibly help, but some of its explanation isnt weather effects, just bear with me

I call this pretty much an Computer Action Effect, the computer selects a random time in the match, it doesnt matter when, that imagine you are running along a wall in a map like turf, its in the city, then bullets spring up all around you but dont hit you, you look to your
right and you see a marine jump out of the level, later you hear a sniper shot, you look to where its coming from and its outside the level, you can see the wisp of smoke..

This idea is just a prescripted action that could happen at anytime in a match, and for your idea, say that the computer randomly selects thunderstrikes!

It would be programmed not to hit anyone, the computer could do that, imagine from the Ideal Science stuff that runs this, if they can run this they can do my idea.

I came up with a coupl;e cool things the computer could do.
The actions however would always pertain to the map

Using some old maps as examples-

-Turf-

-Rocket explosion, wouldnt harm anyone
-Any prescripted gun fire

-For weather patterns-

-Thunder strike
-Rain would puddle and it would splash when rain hit it [ not really my idea based ]
-Changing cloud patterns


Im pretty much out of ideas

So you're basically just suggesting adding another level of immersion to the multiplayer maps by building them around some prescripted war effects and whatnot?

I'm not entirely sure how much I like the idea of getting sprayed with faux gunfire and whatnot, but the idea has some merit, I guess.

  • 07.03.2006 10:36 AM PDT
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Going back and viewing the Making of Halo 3 documentary again, I think that Bungie is indeed planning on incorporating volumetric clouds and sky effects into the engine after all, versus the traditional flat skybox. One of the team members mentions that they're totally redoing the way that they build their skies this time around, and the swirling vortex above the excavation site in the trailer looks like a prime example of this to me.

[Edited on 7/3/2006]

  • 07.03.2006 10:40 AM PDT
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I like the idea, don't get me wrong but I can see a problem.

Say I'm playing an Assault game. My team has to assault the base in a blizzard, our vehicles slide all over the place and the bomb guy falls over a lot.

The other team has to assault the base in a foggy drizzle. We defenders can't see where they are coming from until they are very close and they gain the element of surprise.

Whilest I love the pictures it conjures of a stormridden Zanzibar, I cannot help but worry about any balance issues it may cause...

  • 07.03.2006 10:45 AM PDT
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They have something like that for the new sonic the hedgehog game for the 360 and PS3. Real time Day and Night and even plants that grow. You can see like little mushrooms growing by the trunks of trees after time. Its amazing. I believe this stuff should be ing Halo 3.

  • 07.03.2006 10:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Steelbadger
I like the idea, don't get me wrong but I can see a problem.

Say I'm playing an Assault game. My team has to assault the base in a blizzard, our vehicles slide all over the place and the bomb guy falls over a lot.

The other team has to assault the base in a foggy drizzle. We defenders can't see where they are coming from until they are very close and they gain the element of surprise.

Whilest I love the pictures it conjures of a stormridden Zanzibar, I cannot help but worry about any balance issues it may cause...

I agree, there are probably some aspects of gameplay balance that would need to be worked out as well, but I do think that the positives outweigh the negatives here in terms of the sorts of permutations and combinations to gameplay that it could bring.

I certainly think that this could be built around and tweaked in accordance with gameplay balance and mechanics, so as not to go so far as to be a dusruption to the game, as well.

  • 07.03.2006 11:06 AM PDT

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