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Subject: What's still Canon in the Fall of Reach?

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So the time it took Reach to fall in the game, compared to the book, is quite different, also there was an Easter egg in Reach that showed the Chief in cryo on the ship, but i think that conflicts with where he is supposed to be at that time.

Also i don't think the PoA ever landed on Reach in the book.

So i know retcons happened, all im asking is, what parts of the book "Fall of Reach" are still canon? For example, in the new canon, did the PoA still participate in the big space battle like it did in the old canon? Or did it just leave Reach and jump to Halo?

  • 11.04.2012 1:50 AM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the mirratord" join the Mirratord

Everything is still canon except for the dates, those were the only thing changed.

Master Chief being in cryo on The Pillar of Autumn was an easter egg don't take it seriously, if you do you're an idiot.

Pillar of Autumn being on Reach was at the end of the space battles and it was only there because of an emergency landing to pick of up Cortana. Shortly after they picked her up they flew past the covenant ships and jumped to Halo.

[Edited on 11.04.2012 5:39 AM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 5:38 AM PDT

This would be a good time to point out that the US Government seriously did consider nuking the moon during the Cold War as a show of force. Project A119.

"A large explosion on the Terminator line would put the sun behind the mushroom cloud, making the explosion visible with the naked eye from Earth."

Then the US decided they'd just send in Neil Armstrong to land on it. Neil Armstrong - the one man on the earth that was considered a suitable replacement for a nuclear missile.

It had been a very long time since I read the Fall of Reach, but I thought Halsey personally gave Cortana to Chief, and that it was before the Covenant landed on Reach. I'm probably wrong. I read it when I first came out, so it't been quite a while.

  • 11.04.2012 8:03 AM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the mirratord" join the Mirratord

Halsey gave half of Cortana to chief, well, most of her. A shard of Cortana stayed with Halsey and that's what you give to Captain Keyes.

  • 11.04.2012 9:07 AM PDT

-Panthers are the best.
-Haters gonna hate.
-Who Dares Wins
-If your one of my real life friends. STOP GOOGLE-ING ME.
XD

For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel.

If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more.

It's best just to disregard reach.

  • 11.04.2012 9:44 AM PDT

In regards to the OP, everything in TFoR is still canon except for the length of the battle. Lasting from the 12th of August up to the 30th of the same month. The Covies were on Reach before then, but fullscale war hadn't begun until the 12th when the UNSC assaulted that big drop zone and the Supercarrier revealed itself. So rather than lasting a laughable 30-45 minutes like in TFoR (that was the main short-coming of the book, the battle was not portrayed at all realistically), it lasts roughly two weeks. And the only other change was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo and how long real fighting lasted on the 30th. Everything else happens as it did in canon. In the early hours of the 30th the Spartans split up, roughly 15-30 minutes later Chief and his survivors are picked up again, and then at some point between 6:45 AM IIRC and 4:30 PM, the Autumn goes down to the ship yards in Aszod to await Noble Team and the fragment of Cortana Six is carrying.

Posted by: TwistedDippy666
For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel.

If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more.

It's best just to disregard reach.


The dates don't mess anything up at all. A small Covenant fleet arrives just after the destruction of the LNoS and Reach is officially under invasion, yet the UNSC is able to mostly hold them at bay and UNSC reinforcements poor in daily...as the planet is able to hold off the invasion, the PoA is prepped for departure on the 30th....Keyes decides to return to Reach when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and Reach starts getting overrun. There's nothing to conflict in that. And no, the Autumn being groundside after Chief, Johnson, clinically-dead Linda, and the other marines are extracted from Gamma Station does not break or ruin anything. The Autumn simply goes down to the surface of Reach after extracting the above because Halsey sends Keyes a message....how does that even come close to breaking canon?

  • 11.04.2012 10:30 AM PDT

RIP - The Rev: February 9, 1981 – December 28, 2009
RIP - Mitch Lucker: October 20, 1984 - November 1, 2012
RIP - Dimebag Darrell: August 20, 1966 – December 8, 2004
RIP - Ronny James Dio: July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010

I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games.

Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.

  • 11.04.2012 12:49 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Swiftkillswitch3
I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games.

Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.


Not sure if that really matters...

  • 11.04.2012 1:16 PM PDT

RIP - The Rev: February 9, 1981 – December 28, 2009
RIP - Mitch Lucker: October 20, 1984 - November 1, 2012
RIP - Dimebag Darrell: August 20, 1966 – December 8, 2004
RIP - Ronny James Dio: July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Swiftkillswitch3
I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games.

Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.


Not sure if that really matters...


It does, for me and maybe or maybe not for others.

  • 11.04.2012 1:28 PM PDT

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If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

There's little in Reach that outright retconned previous cannon, but it did make a lot of previous lore more far-fetched and unlikely given the circumstances.

For one, while the Pillar of Autumn touching down on Reach was possible, everything that's been established about UNSC starships in previous lore suggests that it's quite a feat to do so. Think Halo 3: "Is the Dawn even rated for atmosphere!?" That was a frigate; imagine how concerned they'd sound if it were a Halcyon-class Cruiser.

Now add that to the fact that the entire planet was under siege and the shipyard the Autumn was docked at was said to be "one of the few remaining safe extraction points," and the events seem even more unlikely.

  • 11.04.2012 1:36 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Swiftkillswitch3

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Swiftkillswitch3
I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games.

Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.


Not sure if that really matters...


It does, for me and maybe or maybe not for others.


Well fans don't have a say on what is canon or not and if an other Reach discussion happens, Reach can't be discounted.

  • 11.04.2012 1:40 PM PDT

-Panthers are the best.
-Haters gonna hate.
-Who Dares Wins
-If your one of my real life friends. STOP GOOGLE-ING ME.
XD


Posted by: OrderedComa
In regards to the OP, everything in TFoR is still canon except for the length of the battle. Lasting from the 12th of August up to the 30th of the same month. The Covies were on Reach before then, but fullscale war hadn't begun until the 12th when the UNSC assaulted that big drop zone and the Supercarrier revealed itself. So rather than lasting a laughable 30-45 minutes like in TFoR (that was the main short-coming of the book, the battle was not portrayed at all realistically), it lasts roughly two weeks. And the only other change was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo and how long real fighting lasted on the 30th. Everything else happens as it did in canon. In the early hours of the 30th the Spartans split up, roughly 15-30 minutes later Chief and his survivors are picked up again, and then at some point between 6:45 AM IIRC and 4:30 PM, the Autumn goes down to the ship yards in Aszod to await Noble Team and the fragment of Cortana Six is carrying.

Posted by: TwistedDippy666
For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel.

If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more.

It's best just to disregard reach.


The dates don't mess anything up at all. A small Covenant fleet arrives just after the destruction of the LNoS and Reach is officially under invasion, yet the UNSC is able to mostly hold them at bay and UNSC reinforcements poor in daily...as the planet is able to hold off the invasion, the PoA is prepped for departure on the 30th....Keyes decides to return to Reach when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and Reach starts getting overrun. There's nothing to conflict in that. And no, the Autumn being groundside after Chief, Johnson, clinically-dead Linda, and the other marines are extracted from Gamma Station does not break or ruin anything. The Autumn simply goes down to the surface of Reach after extracting the above because Halsey sends Keyes a message....how does that even come close to breaking canon?

Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds.

Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo.
Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.

  • 11.04.2012 1:50 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Is that a Reach vs TFoR storm brewing up? Reach and its rough weather... I'll be hiding in CASTLE base until it's over...

  • 11.04.2012 2:00 PM PDT

Halo: Reach is like the Star Wars prequels, it can't be undone, it will never go away, it arrived just to mess everything up.

So yeah, Halo: Reach is canon, much to my dismay, but what can we do? They already found a way to "fix" all the problems with the story and dates, just give some brain asphyxia to everyone in Reach (Covenant included) for a month, and ta-da!

[Edited on 11.04.2012 3:01 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 3:00 PM PDT

Posted by: TwistedDippy666
Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds.

Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo.
Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.


Actually it wasn't, the numbers Nylund gave were pretty damn close to exactly even in terms of ships...and that's not including the SMACs and other orbital defenses around the planet. Just about half of the Fleet of Particular Justice (which numbered 314 or so ships as I'm sure you know) was wiped out before they could even engage the UNSC due to blundering into a mine-field and the SMACs opening fire. After losing so many ships before the battle even really began the Covenant was left with roughly 150 ships against the UNSC's own 150 ships. And each SMAC, in terms of capability and as a military asset equals about the same amount as three UNSC ships in a space battle as a single shot can gut a whole Covenant cruiser of almost any class. Going off of TFoR alone the UNSC and Covenant were just about equal in terms of military assets and ships. And the whole 3:1 thing is not a universal law like so many of the people against Reach or in support of TFoR's account of things seem to believe, that's when the UNSC stood the best chance of winning, but it was not the only time they could ever do anything. The whole Keyes' Loop incident for instance. Captain Keyes beat three or four Covenant ships with just his one, and there are more than that too. 30-45 minutes is not realistic or believable at all, not with the way Nylund had set everything up, and especially not with Reach being the very heart of the UNSC military. I always hated TFoR's depiction of events and thought it incredibly and laughably stupid...but that's just on its own. With Reach added into the mix, the battle as laid out in TFoR actually makes sense.

And yet...in Combat Evolved (the first game and the foundation of the whole series), it had a landing routine and actually landed on Alpha Halo as opposed to crashing and wrecking completely. It was a controlled crash-landing, obviously the Autumn can land...doesn't mean it's meant to fly around in an atmosphere like the frigates can, but it can land and get up into the air again safely....and IIRC, the Autumn was supposed to the UNSC's original way of getting off Alpha Halo too.

SIIIs didn't get Mjolnir, they got SPI. Noble Team, however, are not average SIIIs, they matched every single one of Halsey's standards for the Spartan II program, and thus like all of the others like that they were pulled from their companies before the suicide missions and given Mjolnir armor and outfitted as proper Spartans would be. That's what the plan was for the SIII Gamma Company main characters in GoO as well, being fielded either as Headhunters or as full Spartan IIs in everything but name like Noble were depending on the outcome of that last training exercise. And how do you know they were never on Reach? That's a pretty bold claim right there, we only ever saw the battle from the quite limited perspective of Master Chief and Keyes for the space battle in TFoR, and a little bit of the ground battle around the generator complex through the eyes of Red Team in First Strike.

Posted by: Swiftkillswitch3
I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games.

Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.


So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.

  • 11.04.2012 3:15 PM PDT

http://www.capturemyhaloclips.com/ - Get your Halo clips captured.
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Posted by: OrderedComa
So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.

As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.

  • 11.04.2012 3:19 PM PDT


Posted by: TheSpiderChief

Posted by: OrderedComa
So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.

As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.
I've been saying that for months, their response? "I CAN'T HEER U!!!"

[Edited on 11.04.2012 3:28 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 3:21 PM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the mirratord" join the Mirratord


Posted by: TwistedDippy666

Posted by: OrderedComa
In regards to the OP, everything in TFoR is still canon except for the length of the battle. Lasting from the 12th of August up to the 30th of the same month. The Covies were on Reach before then, but fullscale war hadn't begun until the 12th when the UNSC assaulted that big drop zone and the Supercarrier revealed itself. So rather than lasting a laughable 30-45 minutes like in TFoR (that was the main short-coming of the book, the battle was not portrayed at all realistically), it lasts roughly two weeks. And the only other change was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo and how long real fighting lasted on the 30th. Everything else happens as it did in canon. In the early hours of the 30th the Spartans split up, roughly 15-30 minutes later Chief and his survivors are picked up again, and then at some point between 6:45 AM IIRC and 4:30 PM, the Autumn goes down to the ship yards in Aszod to await Noble Team and the fragment of Cortana Six is carrying.

Posted by: TwistedDippy666
For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel.

If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more.

It's best just to disregard reach.


The dates don't mess anything up at all. A small Covenant fleet arrives just after the destruction of the LNoS and Reach is officially under invasion, yet the UNSC is able to mostly hold them at bay and UNSC reinforcements poor in daily...as the planet is able to hold off the invasion, the PoA is prepped for departure on the 30th....Keyes decides to return to Reach when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and Reach starts getting overrun. There's nothing to conflict in that. And no, the Autumn being groundside after Chief, Johnson, clinically-dead Linda, and the other marines are extracted from Gamma Station does not break or ruin anything. The Autumn simply goes down to the surface of Reach after extracting the above because Halsey sends Keyes a message....how does that even come close to breaking canon?

Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds.

Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo.
Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.


Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?

[Edited on 11.04.2012 4:44 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 4:42 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Arr, this is too tempting..
Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?
The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off?
Or are you being sarcastic?


[Edited on 11.04.2012 5:15 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 5:13 PM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the mirratord" join the Mirratord


Posted by: the real Janaka
Arr, this is too tempting..
Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?
The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off?
Or are you being sarcastic?


Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.

  • 11.04.2012 5:42 PM PDT

So the time it took Reach to fall in the game, compared to the book, is quite different, also there was an Easter egg in Reach that showed the Chief in cryo on the ship, but i think that conflicts with where he is supposed to be at that time.

Also i don't think the PoA ever landed on Reach in the book.

So i know retcons happened, all im asking is, what parts of the book "Fall of Reach" are still canon? For example, in the new canon, did the PoA still participate in the big space battle like it did in the old canon? Or did it just leave Reach and jump to Halo?


I was always told it was Linda, and thought so. Even though that's kindof reading too much into it, Linda was on the PoA during that time. :D

[Edited on 11.04.2012 5:57 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 5:56 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

I've been thinking of something.

The Kilo five trilogy is a sequel to ghost of onyx. GoO is a sequel to FoR. The Kilo-5 trilogy is tied directly to Halo 4 so everything in it is cannon. Therefore FoR is Halo 4 Cannon which means that Halo reach is Non-cannon, Yay!

  • 11.04.2012 6:00 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: fsabran
I've been thinking of something.

The Kilo five trilogy is a sequel to ghost of onyx. GoO is a sequel to FoR. The Kilo-5 trilogy is tied directly to Halo 4 so everything in it is cannon. Therefore FoR is Halo 4 Cannon which means that Halo reach is Non-cannon, Yay!


No, and you should feel dumb by merely suggesting that.

  • 11.04.2012 6:04 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Posted by: the real Janaka
Arr, this is too tempting..
Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?
The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off?
Or are you being sarcastic?


Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.
Ok, so why the endless remarks on the whole ready for in atmosphere stuff, if it's a none-issue, is it just mentioned for teh coolz? If Halcyon class cruisers are able to go in and out of a planet such as Reach's atmosphere, how come it isn't a thing, why don't the do it all the time, surely it must be more practical? Why are they buildt in space from the beginning? Why do they have space elevators?

[Edited on 11.04.2012 6:09 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2012 6:07 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: the real Janaka
Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Posted by: the real Janaka
Arr, this is too tempting..
Posted by: SpArTaNo9
Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?
The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off?
Or are you being sarcastic?


Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.
Ok, so why the endless remarks on the whole ready for in atmosphere stuff, if it's a none-issue, is it just mentioned for teh coolz? If Halcyon class cruisers are able to go in and out of a planet such as Reach's atmosphere, how come it isn't a thing, why don't the do it all the time, surely it must be more practical?


Considering how Halcyon Class Cruisers are barely used at all, I wouldn't be surprised if barely anybody knew that they are able to withstand that.

  • 11.04.2012 6:09 PM PDT

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