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Subject: Forerunners in Halo 4 (spoilers)

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Posted by: Xd00999
After playing Halo 4, did the Forerunners come off as weak to anyone else? Cortana is considered an advanced/evolved Ancilla by the Didact, which implies that Forerunner Ancilla aren't that different from Cortana. A single nuke can completely destroy Didact's ship. Forerunner weapons didn't seem all that strong. Didact was much shorter than 15 feet. A single shot from a Mammoth rail gun can destroy massive Forerunner structures.

I am not complaining, the campaign was great, but the Forerunners seemed weak after the Forerunner trilogy hyped them up.

Does he not call Cortana 'devolved'?

  • 11.08.2012 12:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Xd00999
After playing Halo 4, did the Forerunners come off as weak to anyone else? Cortana is considered an advanced/evolved Ancilla by the Didact, which implies that Forerunner Ancilla aren't that different from Cortana.

All it implies is that the Geas in Halsey were special in comparison to Forerunner AI.


A single nuke can completely destroy Didact's ship.

If you manage to get right into the centre of it, sure. Outside the shield Cortana said it would literally do nothing.

Not to mention humanity's greatest warship carrying essentially super mac weapons punching a small hole into the Didact ship only for it to regenerate itself.


Forerunner weapons didn't seem all that strong. Didact was much shorter than 15 feet. A single shot from a Mammoth rail gun can destroy massive Forerunner structures.

-Yeah the hand weapons definitely received a nerf.
-Yup
-Not surprising, Forerunner structures were never seen as invincible, considering how many of them were destroyed.


I am not complaining, the campaign was great, but the Forerunners seemed weak after the Forerunner trilogy hyped them up.

Only gameplay gave that impression to me.

  • 11.08.2012 12:44 AM PDT
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I also got some information about the composer.

On the level where you fly throught obsticals on the composer a fleetcom officer says that the earth super MACs have fired on the composer and had no effect at all.

  • 11.08.2012 2:08 AM PDT
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Also, there is a chance that the didact actually survived.

Before you finally get to the composer (when cortana says: Activity, significant slipspace event building under the composer! Chief: He is power it up)

So it means the didact fell into a slipspace portal, we know that they are dangerous, but we do not know the power of the didact or his armour fully, maybe he can survive slipspace.

  • 11.08.2012 2:15 AM PDT

were it so easy...

Posted by: ninjakenzen
I for one, preferred it when the forerunners where faceless and mysterious.

Now in my mind I keep seeing a hybrid of a Human/San 'Shyuum [Prophets] lovechild with a new kind of Mass Effect mixed with Halo Wars kind of atmosphere.

The Didact was disappointing and the Forerunner tech was underwhelming on a galactic scale [lol]. Halo 4 isn't a bad game. It's just overrated in many areas. For a change in direction. It could have been worse I guess. I'm just to a large extent disappointed with the followthrough. I've never been so bored/meh at playing a campaign level with forerunners as the focal point of interest. There was no motivation whatsoever, no intrigue or curiosity. Just more of the same forerunner architecture, on a larger scale and don't forget the portals!



THANK YOU for writing this. You've expressed exactly what I've been feeling. I've been telling my friends about my dislike of this shift from mysterious forerunner to mass-effect-esque forerunner.

Halo isn't ruined for me yet, but I'm certainly worried about the direction this series is heading...we'll see

[Edited on 11.08.2012 3:53 AM PST]

  • 11.08.2012 3:51 AM PDT

Once a Mythic, always a Mythic. '04 or Bust.
Extr3me Escalator Diving

Elites of War
Indeed

Just wanted to pipe in about Cortana. When the Didact says she's an advanced AI... think about what she's been through, the knowledge she's absorbed. A massive amount of Forerunner and human data and history, and a surplus of information gleaned from her time spent with the gravemind, and his eternal knowledge.

With her 'mind as it is, there wasn't much she could do.

But I don't think that she'll come back in a 'pull it out of your ass' kind of way. I think it might be more of an organic assimilation with her own knowledge, kind of like an ascension. The mantle could have something to do with it, but that's just a thought.

  • 11.08.2012 12:53 PM PDT

Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.

The nuke destroyed the Composer mid-fire, destroying the ship.

Forerunner weapons are designed for balance.

  • 11.08.2012 1:19 PM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

I just reread the Halo 3 Terminals to see what had been answered by Halo 4. It's an interesting juxtaposition. I recommend everyone to reread them in this new light.

[Edited on 11.08.2012 1:45 PM PST]

  • 11.08.2012 1:36 PM PDT


Posted by: mcmhockey92
Posted by: ninjakenzen
I for one, preferred it when the forerunners where faceless and mysterious.

Now in my mind I keep seeing a hybrid of a Human/San 'Shyuum [Prophets] lovechild with a new kind of Mass Effect mixed with Halo Wars kind of atmosphere.

The Didact was disappointing and the Forerunner tech was underwhelming on a galactic scale [lol]. Halo 4 isn't a bad game. It's just overrated in many areas. For a change in direction. It could have been worse I guess. I'm just to a large extent disappointed with the followthrough. I've never been so bored/meh at playing a campaign level with forerunners as the focal point of interest. There was no motivation whatsoever, no intrigue or curiosity. Just more of the same forerunner architecture, on a larger scale and don't forget the portals!



THANK YOU for writing this. You've expressed exactly what I've been feeling. I've been telling my friends about my dislike of this shift from mysterious forerunner to mass-effect-esque forerunner.

Halo isn't ruined for me yet, but I'm certainly worried about the direction this series is heading...we'll see

You guys need to understand that what you're seeing of the Forerunners is from a balanced gameplay perspective. If Forerunners were made to be as powerful as they are in the books, none of us would make it past the first level.

And in reply to earlier things:
1. The Didacts ship IS a warship. Look at the terminals. In addition, it is a far cry from a "weak ship". It survived MAC bombardment from Earth's orbital defenses AND home fleet battle group.
2. The weapon used by the Infinity to punch a hole in Didact's ship was not a "super-mac". It was a 100% Forerunner energy weapon. Most likely introduced by the engineers taken from Onyx. (The Forerunner energy weapons ARE on the Infinity. It was mentioned in either Glasslands or Thursday War).
3. And the red "pool" that the Didact fell into was a Slipspace Rupture. Cortana confirmed so in her dialogue.

The Prometheans are weak because they have to be, otherwise, gameplay would be horribly broken.

If you'd like a more accurate depiction of Forerunner military prowess, I suggest you play the entire campaign on Legendary without dying once. Then you'll realize that Prometheans may be more powerful than you think.

  • 11.11.2012 5:37 PM PDT

Hey I am a big Bungie fan ever since I played Halo 2. I love the series, I love Bungie. I have made a few Bungie logos in my metal shop.

I agree he was kinda weak there supposed to be like gods.

  • 11.11.2012 6:05 PM PDT

I agree, plus the games balanced around Heroic, as far as I'm aware anyway. However, I still believe the Prometheans should have been stronger, a few of my buddies and I started going through the missions on Legendary and simply plowed through them. In total there were three of us, and we only had a total of one or two deaths per level. If I said this happened in Reach, people would laugh, with this game though, it's believable. The enemies are simply laughable...

On a separate note, not necessarily pointed at you, I'm not totally convinced that the Didact is dead. If you watch the credits, at the end there's a cut scene with him talking about being defeated, but wanting to come back for revenge. I don't know about you guys, but that doesn't sound very dead to me...

  • 11.11.2012 6:06 PM PDT
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I think the Forerunners seemed weaker for two reasons. For one, humanity did catch up a little bit. That is a factor. But, also, gameplay. 343i did say they would sacrifice a little bit of canon for gameplay. Well, I think the Forerunners being a bit water-downed is an affect of that. Which, is understandable. If the Forerunners were portrayed fully as what they're chalked up to be...There wouldn't be a game. They would just obliterate the UNSC. So, I think that is the reason.

  • 11.11.2012 7:13 PM PDT

Didn't Guilty Spark say that chief only had a class 2 combat skin, and that he should've brought a Class 12 combat skin against the Flood? I guess gameplay trumps story. Why does the Didact have levitating powers?

  • 11.12.2012 11:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
The nuke was a HAVOK missile, IIRC, which existed long before Halo 4 and was not enhanced by recent technological breakthroughs..
True, it was older tech but it's still a nuke. And it works the same way that it does on Covenant ships, if you plant a nuke inside a shielded craft the explosion keeps expanding inside of the shields until it runs out of available gasses (like oxygen) and fuels (like the gas stored for the plasma reactors for the flame).

  • 11.12.2012 11:59 AM PDT


Posted by: Sealskie
I think the Forerunners seemed weaker for two reasons. For one, humanity did catch up a little bit. That is a factor. But, also, gameplay. 343i did say they would sacrifice a little bit of canon for gameplay. Well, I think the Forerunners being a bit water-downed is an affect of that. Which, is understandable. If the Forerunners were portrayed fully as what they're chalked up to be...There wouldn't be a game. They would just obliterate the UNSC. So, I think that is the reason.


But the only Forerunner you fight is the Didact, the Prometheans are all combat forms of ancient humans anyways.

  • 11.12.2012 12:02 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.


I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of Halo 4; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy.

People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember Reach? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the Autumn is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply.

Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.

  • 11.12.2012 1:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.


I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of Halo 4; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy.

People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember Reach? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the Autumn is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply.

Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.

I agree. This is what I had in mind. Although, someone mentioned that Halo 5 was supposed to be the darkest Halo yet so when Cortana returns, which side will she be in? Gravemind almost turned her. Could the Didact?

  • 11.12.2012 2:00 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.


I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of Halo 4; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy.

People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember Reach? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the Autumn is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply.

Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.

Or maybe Cortana is actually dead, rather than pulling a fairly obvious plot twist and have survive by sheltering in Didact's armour. The debate on whether or not she survived is for another thread, but until it is proven otherwise, there is no proof that Cortana survived, only speculation.

Where was it stated that Cortana is half Forerunner? I remember the generally consensus being that Cortana was merely studying the installation. Studying it would hardly make Cortana half-Ancilla.

  • 11.12.2012 2:56 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.


I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of Halo 4; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy.

People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember Reach? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the Autumn is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply.

Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.

Or maybe Cortana is actually dead, rather than pulling a fairly obvious plot twist and have survive by sheltering in Didact's armour. The debate on whether or not she survived is for another thread, but until it is proven otherwise, there is no proof that Cortana survived, only speculation.

Where was it stated that Cortana is half Forerunner? I remember the generally consensus being that Cortana was merely studying the installation. Studying it would hardly make Cortana half-Ancilla.
She used Foreruner code to improve hersefl.

  • 11.12.2012 3:19 PM PDT

Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo

A single nuke, I think anywhere would cause a lot of damage. Detonating it inside the Forerunner ship, in a strategic place where it would cause the most damage, I do not find it unreasonable that it could destroy a forerunner ship.

For comparison, an individual with stone hammer on the outside of a tank couldn't do much damage (if at all), but once you place that individual in a strategic position (say inside) and he could do a lot more damage.

Forerunner weapons didn't seem "strong" I should think, for no reason other than to maintain game-design balance and not because they felt that the forerunner weapons were in any way "weak." That said, it could still be argued that they were still "advanced" in form and function.

I also think it may be prudent to look at the whole legacy of the forerunners and what they have done; even in this game, what the Didact was almost able to do in a couple of days what took the entire covenant collection was unable to do for years.

[Edited on 11.13.2012 11:42 AM PST]

  • 11.13.2012 11:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: Seig Akai
Well, either way, 343 had best correct the story here with the Didact and Librarian (which I felt was a slap in the face by her only appearing for a matter of moments) before I stand out in front of their office and snap the disk in half. Won't do much but it will make me feel better.

Through the Lore of the original Trilogy as well as all of the books, most importantly the ones written by Greg Bear, the Didact seen in this game is obviously not Bornsteller. The Prometheans met in the game are entirely left field but I enjoyed their presence to an extent. The 'Didact', however, did not seem as powerful as he should have been. This race once spanned the galaxy and held phenomenal technology. Compared to their technology from the lore/books, coupled with what we've seen, and their ability to combat mankind in their own timeline.. I wouldn't say that Mankind caught up in any respect. If you recall, guilty Spark (Chakas) refers to John's armor in Halo 1 as being inferior on multiple tiers which left John in disbelief.

I enjoyed the game it was good to see many of the references from the story stand out, but the ending as well as the Didacts appearance coupled with the Librarian....it just left a sour taste in my mouth. It's like they wanted to cram too much drama and not enough accuracy into the game which has had one of the shortest campaigns I have played in the Halo Series for a while. There was quite a bit of content but.. it just didn't feel right. They don't know quite have that edge that the original trilogy did with John. I'm birdwalking here. there is an obvious gap in technology between Humanity and the Forerunners, even moreso with the Precursors. There is endless lore and depth that they can explore and branch from and regardless of if I enjoyed the game they need to -stick to the damn roots.-

Bornsteller had best make an appearance. The Librarian needs a more involved role, and dammit it wouldn't hurt for John to be reunited with Fred, Kelly, and Linda...but that's just a dream of mine.


Now, I don't know why you folks can't put the pieces together. Didact was the one who fired the rings in the terminals and lore, and since the Ur-Didact in halo 4, the original Didact, was a douche, that leaves Bornstellar as the one who fired the rings.

Anywho, I pretty much agree with your whole post on that.

  • 11.13.2012 12:08 PM PDT

Why are you here?

I loved the game, but I too was wondering why everything seemed a little weaker for an 'enlightened' race. Didact is too small also.

  • 11.13.2012 4:40 PM PDT


Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
I loved the game, but I too was wondering why everything seemed a little weaker for an 'enlightened' race. Didact is too small also.


Aside from gameplay balance, there's also the fact that we still haven't seen the Forerunners themselves in their full strength, just their descendant machines and some of their creations. The Forerunners of the past are dead, they've regressed to become weaker.

  • 11.13.2012 5:19 PM PDT

I was playing the last level on legendary last night, got stuck at a hard spot. Over and over I retried, and every time I restarted, a rampant malfunctioning cortana would let out an outburst. I was getting annoyed with it, but then after a few tries, I caught her saying the words didact and simultaneously. So I jumped off a ledge. 3 ledge jumps later, I realized that she said "Confine Didact and myself simultaneously." then she says shes opening another portal. I heard this another 5 times, and I'm certain that's what she was saying.

I believe she has her rampant self locked away somewhere with the Didact. Possibly starting with the slipspace rupture?

She could have been referring to holding him down at the end so masterchief could do his grenade run, but I doubt it. Combining this with Halsey logs, the "evolved ancilla" talk, and a bunch of other stuff, I believe shes out there somewhere. Just...rampant..

I also think she will be the new librarian by the end of 6, and Master chief will have taken Didact's position...with Arbiter and his homies sharing the mantle, on the great journey that they always wanted...

Sorry for the wall of text, and the phoenix down I just used on this thread...
And apologies if I put this in the wrong spot. I just read a few things about the slipspace rupture and the quote didn't make it..


Upon reading the post below me, I realize that this theory has gone out the window.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 6:03 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 4:17 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

She says she can't fight the Didact and herself simultaneously, not confine.

  • 01.03.2013 4:49 PM PDT

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