Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach is better. Logical reasoning and proof inside.
  • Subject: Reach is better. Logical reasoning and proof inside.
Subject: Reach is better. Logical reasoning and proof inside.

TL;DR at bottom.


You want to know something? I have never played a game that has had such a good campaign, such an innovative way of weekly story telling for free...and then such a terrible multiplayer experience that forsakes almost everything Halo was known for.


Let me explain. The multiplayer part, anyway. I think almost all of us can agree campaign and Spartan Ops is cool.


Jeez, where do I begin? The DMR being a death star, even better than Reach's no bloom DMR? Personal ordnance discouraging map movement? Dynamic spawns on the premier BTB map Ragnarok? The inexcusable amount of glitches and bugs found so far? Instant kill weapons in loadouts? Slayer Pro not really having 'pro' settings but stripped down features? The awful bullet magnetism? Aim assist?


All of those are off the top of my head. Top of my head. I know I'm missing some things. Let's just go down the list.



1. The DMR. It's the best loadout weapon in game. It will trump every other loadout weapon unless the user isn't that good. The shots fire faster than the BR's burst, it's magnetism is higher, and the bloom is meaningless. The range is so ridiculous there is no reason to push up in BTB anymore. Camp middle or get punished. That brings me to my next point.


2. What's better than a gun that discourages getting closer and map movement? Personal ordnance! Not only can you camp the middle on Ragnarok with no reason to move, you can get your very own weapons dropped at your feet so you don't need to move into enemy territory and grab power weapons! You have no reason to go there. Spawn trapping was a skill, now it's discouraged.


3. Oh, nevermind...you couldn't spawn trap anyway. There are dynamic spawns on premier BTB maps like Ragnarok (and probably all maps). This is a pure noob friendly and casual catering mechanic. If you risked the chance to go into the enemy base and grab the sniper and get back out? You had a good team and or good individual skill. Sure, you can do that now, but they'll spawn at your base now.


4. The inexcusable amount of bugs. Enough said, you've all seen or heard everyone talk about crap like fake ordnance markers, ordnance stuck in the ground, the FOV zoomed in randomly, exploit spots, instant reloading and backpack reloading, active camo blue dots not showing, so on and so forth. I made a thread a while back that I can't find, but within two weeks of the game being out...the glitch count that affected gameplay was something like 31. And 343i said they didn't need a public beta. That's funny.


5. Instant kill weapons in loadouts. Who thought of this one? Hell, who thought of putting the boltshot as a secondary? Best case scenario is that the boltshot ruins CQC and you can hardly ever avoid of because of terrible lag compensation methods (more on that later).

The worst case scenario? It's completely absurd and people will do this, and it will be god awful. People will use the DMR and Boltshot in conjunction, along with active camo (to get easy DMR kills and the Boltshot when charging doesn't take you out of camo and if they're lucky the blue dots on radar dont show) and Wetwork Stealth. They'll do this in BTB at the middle of the map, they'll call down personal ordnance and have no need to push up...and when someone comes to them and happens to have Pro Vision? They won't be seen anyway.

That's just...wow. Can you comprehend the awfulness of that?


6. Slayer Pro is not 'pro'. Slayer pro is a boring game with everything stripped down with some stupid mechanics left in anyway. Okay, maybe you purely outskilled this one guy with the BR? Well thanks to instant respawn he can attack you again before your shields are up! Does this seem like 'pro' to you?


7. Bullet magnetism. For anyone who doesn't know about this, do yourself a favor. Go into forge, lay down several weapons, sign in a guest controller and do tests with the weapons. Aim a tiny bit off their body, shoot, repeat until you find the end of the bullet magnetism. The automatics are freaking hilarious with this, and the DMR for what it is has too much of it.


8. Aim assist kind of goes hand in hand with magnetism but it is a different noob friendly aiming mechanism for players anyway. Unload a full clip of AR or SAW into your guest while rotating your aiming stick around and around as fast as you can. Chances are your gun is still on the target. Now do the same at the air. Your screen goes crazy. What the heck.


9. Terrible netcode/lag compensation. Now, I'm not going to get off into a huge tangent full of technical terms and all that because my last thread that did, hardly anyone posted or understood. I'll just explain some things to you in layman's terms.

Ever blasted a guy with a shotty in CQC and they faceplant the floor, then all of the sudden their sticky manifests on your torso without any warning? Lag compensation. Ever been shot by a guy behind a wall a split second before he actually comes into view? Lag compensation. I can go on and on but this happens to me and it happens to you if you have a GOOD connection.


10. Castrated customs and forge. Enough said. What couldn't you do in Reach with customs? What couldn't you do in forge for the custom you made? Halo 4 has so much less. The only cool things are better color in forge pieces, and trait zones. Sorry, but that's it. Dominion was a cool concept but you can't forge good BTB dominion maps. Forgeworld would have been great for that.


11. I'm sorry, but it's true. When you have a perk system with a loadout system there will always be some combinations that are completely broke. Like I said above, the DMR, bolt shot, active camo and stealth loadout...come on...really?



You know what? Halo 4 fixed the few flaws Reach had but introduced a ten page checklist of other problems. I'll take being out-bloomed occasionally and not being able to strafe as well over ALLLLLLL OF THAT STUFF I've pointed out.


In fact if having Forgeworld still ripe with oppurtunities, great and awesome customs, a good Forge, and balanced weapons means being out-bloomed occasionally (only in default settings)? I'll take it!


TL;DR: Reach is better.

  • 11.23.2012 1:22 PM PDT

Yup.

  • 11.23.2012 1:30 PM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community

I disagree. Halo 4 has a lot of problems, but not even close to Reach's. Almost every single game mechanic was ruined in Reach. And Halo 4 has been out for a few weeks, with promises of patches in the future that may or may not pan out. Reach derped around for years with NO help at all, and then a pathetic little TU around the end of its life.

I am in no way saying Halo 4 is good or quality, but it hasn't caused me even near the frustration lolReach has.

  • 11.23.2012 1:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mythical Wolf
Yup.

  • 11.23.2012 2:07 PM PDT

In comparison, yeah it is.

  • 11.23.2012 2:15 PM PDT
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And 343 said they didn't need a Beta... not when you have game-breaking glitches 24/7. Reach had glitches, but not as bad as Halo 4, hell, some of Reach's glitches were funny as hell. "Lightspeed glitch, anyone?"

You've pretty much summed it all up, OP. I can't see Halo 4 lasting very long. I've seen one guy at SR 110 in MM today. How is that even possible?

  • 11.23.2012 2:24 PM PDT


Posted by: ShadowLordDaniel
And 343 said they didn't need a Beta... not when you have game-breaking glitches 24/7.
It's funny cause there is BXR and double shot in H4.

  • 11.23.2012 2:29 PM PDT


Posted by: boomdeyadah

Posted by: ShadowLordDaniel
And 343 said they didn't need a Beta... not when you have game-breaking glitches 24/7.
It's funny cause there is BXR and double shot in H4.
Bxr was in reach too, but try said so themselves the playlists aren't permanent so it is pretty much a beta.

[Edited on 11.23.2012 2:58 PM PST]

  • 11.23.2012 2:57 PM PDT

You think armor lock should have stayed therefore your opinion is null

  • 11.23.2012 6:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Yamadog27
Opinions are like butholes. Everyone's got one, nobody wants to hear about it.

Called it. All these guys that were whining "REACH SUCKS, THE LAST HALO GAME/HALO 3 WAS BETTER!!!" are now saying that, but about Halo 4. The community never ceases to amaze me.

  • 11.23.2012 6:59 PM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra


Posted by: Vidgameplayer007
Called it. All these guys that were whining "REACH SUCKS, THE LAST HALO GAME/HALO 3 WAS BETTER!!!" are now saying that, but about Halo 4. The community never ceases to amaze me.

No.

People are complaining about Halo 4 not being Halo. People were complaining about Reach not being Halo. People were complaining about Halo 3 due to certain game mechanics.

See the difference there? Halo games are becoming less and less "Halo." When people complained about Halo 3, no one said "Halo 3 just doesn't feel like 'Halo.'" However, Reach and Halo 4 are prime examples of people complaining about a Halo game that doesn't feel like "Halo."

  • 11.23.2012 7:42 PM PDT

Most of these problems are on the surface of gameplay. AKA easily fixed.

Reach was broken at it's core. Even after a title update the game was broken.

If more than one or two of these issues is still unresolved after 3-4 months after release then you could say reach was better. But ATM it's still too early to tell.

  • 11.23.2012 8:06 PM PDT

Vote for me for a free cookie.


Posted by: keeno 111
This is laughable. Halo 4 takes boggs on reach.

This is why there is only 5 active people on the reach forum and thousands on the halo 4 forums.
Halo 4 just came out. Halo Reach came out two years ago. Obviously it'll have more people on the forums

  • 11.23.2012 8:16 PM PDT

Posted by: ShadowLordDaniel
And 343 said they didn't need a Beta... not when you have game-breaking glitches 24/7. Reach had glitches, but not as bad as Halo 4, hell, some of Reach's glitches were funny as hell.


H4 main glitch was the decision to use the crap reach engine. 343 had to make a choice, wait an extra 2 years and watch the halo brand fade ... or go quick by using the reach engine.

Wrong choice.
Done further damage to the Halo brand ... reach delivered the mortal wound, looks like reach2.0 could now finish the job.

Kinda funny how reach had a huge dive in online numbers within the first two weeks of launch ... why did they think reach2.0 would be any better.

  • 11.23.2012 10:16 PM PDT
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You pretty much nailed it.

I mainly play Spartan Ops in Halo 4, its really fun.

Im not playing much multiplayer untill stuff gets fixed.

Hell team slayer on Boneyard was more balanced than Halo 4.

  • 11.23.2012 10:22 PM PDT

Hashtag: first_world_problems
"Not enough polar bears in teh judicial system!"

Funny. I remember when I enjoyed the reach forum. Now it's just full of -blam!-, and the only active users are generally full of -blam!-. I mourn thee, bungie.net. Well, back to trolling on equestrian forums.


[Edited on 11.25.2012 9:45 AM PST]

  • 11.25.2012 9:44 AM PDT
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I aim to please.

Called it back when Halo 4 was announced. I -blam!- called it.

  • 11.25.2012 10:07 AM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

I told you so.

  • 11.25.2012 10:10 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.

As far as core gameplay goes, Halo 4 is better. However, it's buried under a mountain of crap that puts post-TU Reach well ahead of it.

Multiplayer-wise, of course. Halo 4 dumps all over Reach for single-player. Since I hold single-player to be of higher importance than multiplayer, I still hold Halo 4 above Reach.

Fortunately most of the issues in Halo 4's multiplayer are fairly easily fixable (not sure if netcode can be adjusted post-launch, though, which is a huge factor) so the potential is still there. Right now though it's a mess, which is why I'm not a H4 tryhard at the moment.

[Edited on 11.25.2012 12:19 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2012 12:18 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: faceripper v2
Most of these problems are on the surface of gameplay. AKA easily fixed.

Reach was broken at it's core. Even after a title update the game was broken.

If more than one or two of these issues is still unresolved after 3-4 months after release then you could say reach was better. But ATM it's still too early to tell.


This -blam!- is trufax.

[Edited on 11.25.2012 1:28 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2012 12:24 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Without The Flood, I wouldn't know what an opinion is.

Posted by: noobslayer957
Funny. I remember when I enjoyed the reach forum. Now it's just full of -blam!-, and the only active users are generally full of -blam!-. I mourn thee, bungie.net. Well, back to trolling on equestrian forums.
I remember when I enjoyed the reach forum.enjoyed the reach forum.wat

  • 11.25.2012 1:09 PM PDT

Yeah, I agree with The Ruckus 2010 and the OP on the multiplayer, it is covered in crap. I can't take the same opinion with you(Ruckus) on the campaign, though. I felt Halo 4, while it was visually stunning, didn't present the true Halo feel that I had gotten in the previous games. Which, I suppose, is to be expected with the addition of a new developer and new story.
I have to ask you: What makes a Halo campaign good?

I got a feeling of mystery and excitement when I played Halo: CE.
In Halo 2, I felt that the game was about protecting Earth while trying to defeat the Covenant while you play as a general bad-ass that you gotten to know as the Master Chief in Halo CE.
Halo 3, very clearly had the same feeling as in Halo 2, with the added incentive "Finish the Fight!"
Halo 3 ODST was more of a mysterious/ominous game where you tried to learn the whereabouts of your squad. This was the first game that you weren't the Chief.
Halo Reach: You are still not the Chief, and you know Reach falls. I didn't have any real incentive to be completely invested in the campaign. Even if it was not my favorite, I still had fun playing it.

Halo 4... When I played it, the beginning felt like Halo: CE. There was that mystery, however the more I played, the less exciting it was. 343i had left most if not all the back-story to it's terminals, which took away some of the mystery for me. Sure, you could go to Waypoint and watch them, but that takes you away from playing the game(even if you read the books,which I had, the game feels it is lacking something). The game's intent was to make the Master Chief feel like a human, rather than a robot. However, the Chief never felt like a robot to me, and the overall message the game left me with was that the Chief is not the bad-ass he once was.

So that is my thought on the situation.

[Edited on 11.25.2012 1:50 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2012 1:46 PM PDT

Hashtag: first_world_problems
"Not enough polar bears in teh judicial system!"


Posted by: BLZL
Posted by: noobslayer957
Funny. I remember when I enjoyed the reach forum. Now it's just full of -blam!-, and the only active users are generally full of -blam!-. I mourn thee, bungie.net. Well, back to trolling on equestrian forums.
I remember when I enjoyed the reach forum.enjoyed the reach forum.wat

Aw, c'mon. It used to be great. Now I go to pretty much any other forum (besides the flood) and reflect on it's ruined glory.
EDIT: "Glory" was probably the wrong word for that.

  • 11.25.2012 3:11 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Lashghost
Yeah, I agree with The Ruckus 2010 and the OP on the multiplayer, it is covered in crap. I can't take the same opinion with you(Ruckus) on the campaign, though. I felt Halo 4, while it was visually stunning, didn't present the true Halo feel that I had gotten in the previous games. Which, I suppose, is to be expected with the addition of a new developer and new story.
I have to ask you: What makes a Halo campaign good?

I got a feeling of mystery and excitement when I played Halo: CE.
In Halo 2, I felt that the game was about protecting Earth while trying to defeat the Covenant while you play as a general bad-ass that you gotten to know as the Master Chief in Halo CE.
Halo 3, very clearly had the same feeling as in Halo 2, with the added incentive "Finish the Fight!"
Halo 3 ODST was more of a mysterious/ominous game where you tried to learn the whereabouts of your squad. This was the first game that you weren't the Chief.
Halo Reach: You are still not the Chief, and you know Reach falls. I didn't have any real incentive to be completely invested in the campaign. Even if it was not my favorite, I still had fun playing it.

Halo 4... When I played it, the beginning felt like Halo: CE. There was that mystery, however the more I played, the less exciting it was. 343i had left most if not all the back-story to it's terminals, which took away some of the mystery for me. Sure, you could go to Waypoint and watch them, but that takes you away from playing the game(even if you read the books,which I had, the game feels it is lacking something). The game's intent was to make the Master Chief feel like a human, rather than a robot. However, the Chief never felt like a robot to me, and the overall message the game left me with was that the Chief is not the bad-ass he once was.

So that is my thought on the situation.


Halo 4 was superior to Halo: Reach's campaign in that the story was more tangible throughout the campaign and you what you were being told in the story was reflected in the campaign itself. In Reach, they had to tell you that the planet was falling, yet you never really saw it on the scale you should have. Even when New Alexandria was being destroyed, I still felt like the Covenant was being pushed back, not vice-versa. Although, New Alexandria came the closest to portraying the desperation of the situation. The story was just bland. There was virtually no characterization of any of the Spartans which left you feeling no impact when they started getting picked off like Whack-A-Moles. The only part of the story that was left was as follows:

-Covenant are on Reach
-Evacuate civilians
-lol u r died

The campaign objectives from mission to mission were just boring and unengaging. Nearly every single one ended with you pushing a button. On the subject of button pushing, for the record, I was not a fan of all the button pushing animations in Halo 4. They got annoying fast. The campaign and the objectives therein were vastly more story-driven than Reach. At least, that's how it felt for me.

Even the supposed novelty moments like flying the Sabre fell flat to me. The first half of that section seemed forced and entirely unnecessary. No part of the flying section was challenging either. I did Legendary solo for my first playthrough and did not die once in the Sabre. The combat was not engaging (and in fact became rather mind-numbing) because most of the enemy fighters were off fighting your brain-dead allies. It was just a shooting gallery with the occasional "Fox, look out behind you!" moment.

Conversely, the Broadsword trench run in Halo 4 was infinitely more exciting than Reach's Sabre section. It felt like there was purpose to doing what you were doing 100% of the time, and the experience was kept interesting with story elements being peppered in there. Examples being Earth appearing as you emerge from slipspace and the dialogue (particularly pertaining to the Didact's ship being unaffected by MAC barrages) exchanges. The music alone added a whole other depth to the scene that Reach's Sabre encounter just could not touch.

There was also the issue of the core gameplay. 100% bloom in the campaign in Reach was not fun and was actually frustrating in most cases. Oh, you just popped that Ultra's shields at range? Well too bad because while you were letting your bloom reset he evaded into cover. There was also the slow movement speed that got me. Armor abilities didn't play a big role either (except in that jetpack section, which could have been absent from the game and still had the same effect) which just furthered my dislike for them. In Halo 4, I found a use for jetpack without having it forced on me like in Reach. The AA's were never forced on you in H4. Yeah, they'd be given objective markers, but you could swap them back as soon as you picked them up which made me feel like I had a choice in my gameplay experience. In Reach, if I picked up a jetpack, I'd be sacrificing what little movement speed I had with sprint because your default running speed is pretty slow. In Halo 4, not only is the default movement speed faster, but you also have sprint at all times.

The campaign on the whole was simply not memorable for me in the slightest and just felt like a chore as opposed to Halo 4 where I felt like everything I was doing had a distinct purpose within the context of the story.

There are threads upon threads describing why the Reach campaign was so ass far better than I can at this current point in time. But that's a brief overview of my opinion on the campaigns.

Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree that the H4 backstory should have been explained within the game itself as opposed to relying on the novels and terminals the contents of which you couldn't even view in-game. As somebody who has read the novels, I had a pretty good idea as to what was going on with the backstory and how it related to H4's story, but they should have done more to make those elements apparent to those who have not read the novels or any other media I'm forgetting where the backstory was explained.

[Edited on 11.25.2012 5:40 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2012 5:34 PM PDT