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Subject: Police Officer Loses Job After Losing Temper.

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

They don't have to be visibly seen. I don't know where you're getting your information from. I can only guess since he was at what appears to be a Police Station, he was likely in Police custody. When you're in police custody or you are switched to another officers custody, you MUST search a person if they are a suspect to ensure Officer safety.

By your logic, if I conceal a weapon well enough in custody as so it's not visible enough to be seen and confiscated, I should get to keep it.

If you are not in custody, you can refuse search. Yes. That much is true. If you're arrested for something, there is no requirement for a warrant to search, and as a suspect in custody you must comply.
Posted by: Dback139

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: Dback139
I don't know if I missed it in the article or video, but why was the boy being asked to empty his pockets? I'm fairly certain that if the boy didn't do anything illegal in plain sight, he is not required to submit to a search (ie turning out his pockets), so there's that. He can be a nuisance, a right pain in the arse, but you can't just search someone because you don't like them.


They can have you empty your pockets to ensure you have no weapons.
Yes, but if it's not in plain sight, or visibly protruding/bulging from the pocket, then he can still refuse the search.

EDIT: As far as making the kid turn out his pocket, he would have to point out what visibly suggests that he "might" be concealing a weapon in his pocket, then the kid would have to submit to a pat-down, not search. And if the pat-down was suspicious, then he would have to turn out the pockets.


[Edited on 11.26.2012 2:49 PM PST]

  • 11.26.2012 2:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: Dback139

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: Dback139
I don't know if I missed it in the article or video, but why was the boy being asked to empty his pockets? I'm fairly certain that if the boy didn't do anything illegal in plain sight, he is not required to submit to a search (ie turning out his pockets), so there's that. He can be a nuisance, a right pain in the arse, but you can't just search someone because you don't like them.


They can have you empty your pockets to ensure you have no weapons.
Yes, but if it's not in plain sight, or visibly protruding/bulging from the pocket, then he can still refuse the search.

Not if they have reason to believe he might be hiding one. Their safety takes priority. It also looks like they're in the police station, at which point they have to search him anyway.

For all we know, they could have very well done a pat-down, found something suspicious after he denied having any weapons (or anything else they may have been looking for), and asked him to empty his pockets as a result. They could have possibly felt reported stolen merchandise, drug paraphernalia, or any number of other things they would have to confiscate.

  • 11.26.2012 2:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: Helveck
They don't have to be visibly seen. I don't know where you're getting your information from. I can only guess since he was at what appears to be a Police Station, he was likely in Police custody. When you're in police custody or you are switched to another officers custody, you MUST search a person if they are a suspect to ensure Officer safety.

By your logic, if I conceal a weapon well enough in custody as so it's not visible enough to be seen and confiscated, I should get to keep it.

If you are not in custody, you can refuse search. Yes. That much is true. If you're arrested for something, there is no requirement for a warrant to search, and as a suspect in custody you must comply.
Right, and yet we know nothing of if he was under arrest and why he was surrounded by officers. If he actually is under detention at the station, then it's a different story, but as no details are provided, your point is moot.

Suspicion of carrying a weapon is too subjective. I could be completely unassuming, but if a cop is having a bad day he can just claim he's suspicious and then I'm subject to a search? That's misuse of power and why I have a general distaste for figures of authority. I understand that what I feel doesn't matter because the law is the law, but I'd respond negatively if I hadn't committed a crime and an officer tried to search me because "he was suspicious".

In the context of this story, I find it hard to believe that the kid was concealing a weapon when his mode of attack was to kick the officer.

[Edited on 11.27.2012 5:12 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2012 5:05 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: Helveck
They don't have to be visibly seen. I don't know where you're getting your information from. I can only guess since he was at what appears to be a Police Station, he was likely in Police custody. When you're in police custody or you are switched to another officers custody, you MUST search a person if they are a suspect to ensure Officer safety.

By your logic, if I conceal a weapon well enough in custody as so it's not visible enough to be seen and confiscated, I should get to keep it.

If you are not in custody, you can refuse search. Yes. That much is true. If you're arrested for something, there is no requirement for a warrant to search, and as a suspect in custody you must comply.
Posted by: Dback139

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: Dback139
I don't know if I missed it in the article or video, but why was the boy being asked to empty his pockets? I'm fairly certain that if the boy didn't do anything illegal in plain sight, he is not required to submit to a search (ie turning out his pockets), so there's that. He can be a nuisance, a right pain in the arse, but you can't just search someone because you don't like them.


They can have you empty your pockets to ensure you have no weapons.
Yes, but if it's not in plain sight, or visibly protruding/bulging from the pocket, then he can still refuse the search.

EDIT: As far as making the kid turn out his pocket, he would have to point out what visibly suggests that he "might" be concealing a weapon in his pocket, then the kid would have to submit to a pat-down, not search. And if the pat-down was suspicious, then he would have to turn out the pockets.

My question is why didn't they just search him if that is the procedure? There was no physical resistance shown by the kid in the video. What was with lifting the kid off the ground in an armbar? The obvious issue is size. This kid has a very small stature. He doesn't even have 2 feet on my one year old. What stopped the officer from simply pulling his pockets inside out without forcing the kid unto the counter?

  • 11.27.2012 6:10 AM PDT

TRU7H. CARNAGE. BUNGIE

He lost his job over THIS? UK is becoming the next 'murica. Kids like that should be put to jail for few days every time they get in trouble. If nothing else, they'll be already used to prison when they come in for a longer period few years later.

  • 11.27.2012 6:30 AM PDT

Remember,
It is easy to be male
it is another thing to be a man.

To be honest I can't see how that can lead to his dismissal. Oh it says he jumped, but it's clear he was pushed. It was hardly behaviour that 'besmirched' the reputation of the force as the judge said. Indeed the judge seemed to be a bit heavy handed and by saying that the other officers should've been in the dock too? That's disgraceful.

  • 11.27.2012 6:41 AM PDT

"This child isn't listening to us, what should we do?"
"Oh I know, let's establish our "authority" with pain!"

  • 11.27.2012 6:46 AM PDT

There is a certain point of tolerance that should never be reached.

After 10 years of perfect service, if I were to be treated that way, I'd probably leave as well.

People don't understand the hard work and sacrifice an police officer makes. Nope, they're just pigs who abuse their power, every last one of them.

  • 11.27.2012 6:46 AM PDT

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Posted by: doctor woot
Wait, this counts as excessive force in Britain? What, do cops ask you nicely to go to jail when you have time when you're arrested?

This is the issue I'm having here, no wonder they couldn't contain those riots when it happened there.

  • 11.27.2012 6:50 AM PDT
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Gentle holds tend not to be that effective. Did he get hit? No. He had his arm twisted and slammed against a table. I don't see what's wrong here.

  • 11.27.2012 7:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: deltahalo UK
So your argument is that he was restraining the child for what he potentially could have done, and that the Officer could have done a lot more damage?
Of course he could. He is a grown man grabbing a quite frankly tiny teenager. Your argument is weird.


So you'd rather the officers be reactive instead of proactive?

  • 11.27.2012 7:46 AM PDT
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Mhhm. I wish the police was integrated with the military, and given the same training as the marines or army. Honestly this kid provoked the officer to use aggressive force. But of course no one can tell a child what he can or can't do, because that restricts his Freedoms .

  • 11.27.2012 7:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec
Remember kids: when Uncle Delta tells you he has sweeties, he isn't lying.

Now get in the van.


The Black Chapter


Posted by: erac2detsaw2

Posted by: deltahalo UK
So your argument is that he was restraining the child for what he potentially could have done, and that the Officer could have done a lot more damage?
Of course he could. He is a grown man grabbing a quite frankly tiny teenager. Your argument is weird.


So you'd rather the officers be reactive instead of proactive?


Yes. I potentially could stab any Rozzer I walk past, so they could take that view and throw me in jail for having the potential to cause a threat.
A Police Officer reacts to the breaking of the law. They can not arrest you because you're potentially going to break the law.
Proactive policing amounts to education of the law and having a presence on the streets, anything else is not within their jurisdiction.

  • 11.27.2012 8:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: deltahalo UK

Posted by: erac2detsaw2

Posted by: deltahalo UK
So your argument is that he was restraining the child for what he potentially could have done, and that the Officer could have done a lot more damage?
Of course he could. He is a grown man grabbing a quite frankly tiny teenager. Your argument is weird.


So you'd rather the officers be reactive instead of proactive?


Yes. I potentially could stab any Rozzer I walk past, so they could take that view and throw me in jail for having the potential to cause a threat.
A Police Officer reacts to the breaking of the law. They can not arrest you because you're potentially going to break the law.
Proactive policing amounts to education of the law and having a presence on the streets, anything else is not within their jurisdiction.


Very true, but the costs of such an effort would be pretty steep. One police officer may be assigned to several blocks of a city. Then what about rural policing?

Proactive policing is nice, but many people see the constant patrol of their neighborhood as harassment. At the same time, reactive policing is usually met by people who claim they are always too late. One thing I've learned going into law enforcement: it's hard to win.

  • 11.27.2012 8:58 AM PDT

it doesnt even looked like the kid got hurt, he just grunted loudly because hes a little -blam!-.

also at people saying herp he cant ask him to empty his pockets, hes clearly in a policestation, and got caught doing something illegal

100% behind this officer

  • 11.27.2012 11:31 AM PDT

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