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Subject: #1reasonwhy - Exposing Sexism In Gaming Industry.

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It's always healthy to seek out new perspectives, especially when they're coming from folks whose life experiences couldn't be more different than your own, and it challenges your assumptions.

It's why I'd strongly encourage you to scroll through the #1reasonwhy hashtag on Twitter, a movement over the weekend to encourage women in game design to relay stories from being a female in the video game industry, and why it can be so hard.


Full article here:
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/gamings-women-raise-sexism-awar eness-with-1reasonwhy-movement-on-twitter/4458/

I was with and liking this idea up until I got to this part.
"a movement over the weekend to encourage women in game design to relay stories from being a female in the video game industry, and why it can be so hard."

I liked the idea of exposing the wrong of sexism in gaming, but I hate, just hate that they completely made it women only, as if sexism against male isn't a thing. Males in the gaming industry (be it gamers or employees) face sexism and harassment as well. Robert Bowling (402) got countless death threats in his time of Community Manager at IW. Guys can't play anything that is made for children without being insulted. Guys are the only ones who are seen as 'angry, swearing, offensive' online gamers. Guys are pretty much no life virgin nerds for playing video games, but a girl doing it is majority of the time seen as more attractive, etc.

I find it kind of funny, gaming is a male dominated hobby with majority of gamers being male. A male trying become part of a female dominated hobby will most likely find it just as hard to 'fit in' and not be 'discriminated' or insulted for doing it. In example if a guy wanted to... for example, do cheer leading or ballroom dancing or ballet.

Thoughts, Flood?

  • 11.27.2012 2:45 PM PDT

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Nietzsche

Posted by: SpeedyBlueDude
I find it kind of funny, gaming is a male dominated hobby with majority of gamers being male. A male trying become part of a female dominated hobby will most likely find it just as hard to 'fit in' and not be 'discriminated' or insulted for doing it. In example if a guy wanted to... for example, do cheer leading or ballroom dancing or ballet.
Bronies.

  • 11.27.2012 2:46 PM PDT

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If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers

Bungie's tweet

  • 11.27.2012 2:47 PM PDT

<3

well, i dont think i would enjoy a game where the main character is a chick... Like if Master Chief was a woman or if Ezio was female...

  • 11.27.2012 2:47 PM PDT
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That's the way the pile of crap rolls. Personally I ignore all that tripe, and if it ever happens to me personally I call folks out on it.

  • 11.27.2012 2:48 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

DonWan also replied to that about some tool in the industry who openly claimed "I'll never accept instructions or directions from a female". I think that he's no longer employed.

  • 11.27.2012 2:49 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush

I'm sorry, but within the gaming industry (distinct from the gaming community) I was under the impression that women experienced far more sexism than men.

So no, I don't think examining sexism towards women in the gaming industry is sexist against men, because I don't accept your postulation that they're pretending "as if sexism against male isn't a thing"

[Edited on 11.27.2012 2:54 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2012 2:50 PM PDT
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I've been playing Halo since 2002. My earliest memories include hiding at the shotgun window on Damnation and killing my dad with grenades while playing co-op on Pillar of Autumn.

>feminism

  • 11.27.2012 2:51 PM PDT

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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Bungie's tweet
I saw that. I respect Bungie but I found their tweet a little silly to be honest. Women aren't vital to the development of good games, and neither are mean. A good competent team is, gender doesn't matter.


Posted by: Phoenix2640
well, i dont think i would enjoy a game where the main character is a chick... Like if Master Chief was a woman or if Ezio was female...
I would if the character was well done or enjoyable. From what I found most games with female protagonist, the character is always really bland with no personality, Portal's Chell is hardly noticeable, you could play as a robot in Portal and you wouldn't tell the difference. Mirrors Edge's Faith had no personality. I think Developers need to try harder and make Female leads good, give them personality and develop them, like Beyond Good and Evil did.

[Edited on 11.27.2012 2:55 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2012 2:53 PM PDT

Yeah dude, Robert Bowling receiving death threats for agreeing to be the public face of a ubiquitous, shoddily designed franchise is a perfect example of sexism.

  • 11.27.2012 2:55 PM PDT

If you have some free time and don't mind, please check out my Youtube channel, and maybe subscribe? I'd appreciate it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DreamOfGaming


Posted by: Locke357
I'm sorry, but within the gaming industry (distinct from the gaming community) I was under the impression that women experienced far more sexism than men.

So no, I don't think examining sexism towards women in the gaming industry is sexist against men, because I don't accept your postulation that they're pretending "as if sexism against male isn't a thing"
I wasn't saying that's sexist ;P

I agree, Sexism happens far more with women in gaming than to men, but still doesn't mean we should flat out ignore it for males. Work towards both instead of leaving out men.

  • 11.27.2012 2:57 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

The who wishes, fervently wishes

-groans-


I don't give a -blam!- about how hard anything it is for a woman to 'make a game'. I don't give a -blam!- about the gender of who makes video games, movies, books, paintings, etc. Art's art. So long as it's good art, I don't give any more of a -blam!- about it, I enjoy it.
Why the hell do they always push this stuff?

  • 11.27.2012 2:58 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush

Posted by: SpeedyBlueDude
I agree, Sexism happens far more with women in gaming than to men, but still doesn't mean we should flat out ignore it for males. Work towards both instead of leaving out men.
I don't feel like it is "leaving out men" to examine a problem that predominantly affects females.



Posted by: Wyzilla
-groans-


I don't give a -blam!- about how hard anything it is for a woman to 'make a game'. I don't give a -blam!- about the gender of who makes video games, movies, books, paintings, etc. Art's art. So long as it's good art, I don't give any more of a -blam!- about it, I enjoy it.
Why the hell do they always push this stuff?
Hm, now I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a white(ish) young (at least) middle class male.

So it really doesn't surprise me that you don't understand why things like sexism are an issue, because you're privileged.

[Edited on 11.27.2012 3:00 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2012 2:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Wyzilla
-groans-


I don't give a -blam!- about how hard anything it is for a woman to 'make a game'. I don't give a -blam!- about the gender of who makes video games, movies, books, paintings, etc. Art's art. So long as it's good art, I don't give any more of a -blam!- about it, I enjoy it.
Why the hell do they always push this stuff?

You're right. Why the -blam!- should anyone try to make you understand another perspective? Can't they all shut up and sell you what you want?

  • 11.27.2012 3:02 PM PDT
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The who wishes, fervently wishes


Posted by: Locke357
Posted by: SpeedyBlueDude
I agree, Sexism happens far more with women in gaming than to men, but still doesn't mean we should flat out ignore it for males. Work towards both instead of leaving out men.
I don't feel like it is "leaving out men" to examine a problem that predominantly affects females.



Posted by: Wyzilla
-groans-


I don't give a -blam!- about how hard anything it is for a woman to 'make a game'. I don't give a -blam!- about the gender of who makes video games, movies, books, paintings, etc. Art's art. So long as it's good art, I don't give any more of a -blam!- about it, I enjoy it.
Why the hell do they always push this stuff?
Hm, now I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a white(ish) young (at least) middle class male.

So it really doesn't surprise me that you don't understand why things like sexism are an issue, because you're privileged.

No, I just don't give a flying -blam!- about it. In certain areas like politics or big business it is an issue, but I don't give a damn about the arts areas or society. There's bigger problems than it, far bigger ones, that should get more publicity, and I get tired whenever it comes up. It's not critical, there's greater problems, and they should be tackled first.

  • 11.27.2012 3:02 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush


Posted by: Wyzilla
No, I just don't give a flying -blam!- about it. In certain areas like politics or big business it is an issue, but I don't give a damn about the arts areas or society. There's bigger problems than it, far bigger ones, that should get more publicity, and I get tired whenever it comes up. It's not critical, there's greater problems, and they should be tackled first.
That's a pretty outrageous logical fallacy, one could always find larger problems to worry about.

By that logic, why are you even here on this forum? There are larger problems to solve, man!

[Edited on 11.27.2012 3:04 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2012 3:04 PM PDT
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The who wishes, fervently wishes


Posted by: Oh This Dude
Posted by: Wyzilla
-groans-


I don't give a -blam!- about how hard anything it is for a woman to 'make a game'. I don't give a -blam!- about the gender of who makes video games, movies, books, paintings, etc. Art's art. So long as it's good art, I don't give any more of a -blam!- about it, I enjoy it.
Why the hell do they always push this stuff?

You're right. Why the -blam!- should anyone try to make you understand another perspective? Can't they all shut up and sell you what you want?

No, I just don't care about it at all as it's not a critical issue. It is with politics, as there should be no bias against any gender within politics, and the fact that you have males deciding female birth control issues is fairly ridiculous, along with other areas as well. But video game developers? I think the political sections are a wee bit more critical.

  • 11.27.2012 3:05 PM PDT
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The who wishes, fervently wishes


Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: Wyzilla
No, I just don't give a flying -blam!- about it. In certain areas like politics or big business it is an issue, but I don't give a damn about the arts areas or society. There's bigger problems than it, far bigger ones, that should get more publicity, and I get tired whenever it comes up. It's not critical, there's greater problems, and they should be tackled first.
That's a pretty outrageous logical fallacy, one could always find larger problems to worry about.

By that logic, why are you even here on this forum? There are larger problems to solve, man!

I am a meaningless, pathetic spec of human life completely incapable of solving all of these issues, which have much larger roots (that are firstly unlikely to die soon anyway, societal bias against race still exists decades and centuries later) and am incapable of solving any problem. Not to mention I have my own problems (which for your information cannot be solved so quickly, and this is more of simply killing free time). So no, I don't really care and wish society would focus on the more serious sexism problems first, then worry about the smaller issues within sexism.

(I also am ignorant of any sexism towards males within the gaming industry at all, as it's hard for a more male dominated environment to be sexist against itself. The only scenario I could think of is a guy hiring a female rigger of equal scale as a male rigger simply because he's attracted to her. Or a female executive hiring the more attractive of two equally skilled males.)

  • 11.27.2012 3:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Wyzilla
Posted by: Locke357
Posted by: Wyzilla
No, I just don't give a flying -blam!- about it. In certain areas like politics or big business it is an issue, but I don't give a damn about the arts areas or society. There's bigger problems than it, far bigger ones, that should get more publicity, and I get tired whenever it comes up. It's not critical, there's greater problems, and they should be tackled first.
That's a pretty outrageous logical fallacy, one could always find larger problems to worry about.

By that logic, why are you even here on this forum? There are larger problems to solve, man!

I am a meaningless, pathetic spec of human life completely incapable of solving all of these issues, which have much larger roots (that are firstly unlikely to die soon anyway, societal bias against race still exists decades and centuries later) and am incapable of solving any problem. Not to mention I have my own problems (which for your information cannot be solved so quickly, and this is more of simply killing free time). So no, I don't really care and wish society would focus on the more serious sexism problems first, then worry about the smaller issues within sexism.

(I also am ignorant of any sexism towards males within the gaming industry at all, as it's hard for a more male dominated environment to be sexist against itself. The only scenario I could think of is a guy hiring a female rigger of equal scale as a male rigger simply because he's attracted to her. Or a female executive hiring the more attractive of two equally skilled males.)

What makes you think that we can simply focus on one place and eradicate sexism there? That's like saying we should all only give to one charity sending food to Africa, because all other causes aren't quite as good. It's not logistically sensible. Sexism is an attitude and a culture, and exposing places where it's still strong and challenging that, that's a very useful way to get rid of the culture.

  • 11.27.2012 3:17 PM PDT

RESPOND TO MY RESPONSE!

Whats this women nagging and affirming stereotypes? What a world we live in. I really dont care who makes the game as long as its good. Yea women get stereotyped but if the work is top notch i dont think it matters as much. Its really these so-so devs who are complaining . I mean look at the lead dev on H4. I dont agree with what the game is now but its still a good game. One of the writers for Mass effect 3 albeit her almost bringing the rage of millions on her for screwing the ending.

  • 11.27.2012 3:42 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush


Posted by: ExO PoloAre you seriously denying that women experience sexism beyond "stereotyping" in the workplace?

  • 11.27.2012 3:43 PM PDT

RESPOND TO MY RESPONSE!


Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: ExO PoloAre you seriously denying that women experience sexism beyond "stereotyping" in the workplace?


Are you seriously assuming without me saying it?

  • 11.27.2012 3:44 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush


Posted by: ExO Polo

Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: ExO PoloAre you seriously denying that women experience sexism beyond "stereotyping" in the workplace?


Are you seriously assuming without me saying it?
You said "yea women get stereotyped ... but it doesn't matter much"

  • 11.27.2012 3:46 PM PDT
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Yup.

This seriously doesn't matter. No one is forcing them to play video games. If it offends someone, stop playing. It's like me going to a Turkish store as someone of partial Greek heritage and going "Woah! Why are Greeks so demonized here?" People seriously need to realize that not everyone wants other people's politically correct bs shoved down their throat.

  • 11.27.2012 3:56 PM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

The most dangerous gunslinger in the west.

No one was sending death threats to Robert Bowling because he was a guy, it was because of the shoddiness of the Modern Warfare games.

Don't get sexism mixed into that.

  • 11.27.2012 3:58 PM PDT

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