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  • Subject: Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded
Subject: Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded


Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whiner?


And you've been turned into a whiny twink with chronic penile fatigue.

  • 11.28.2012 4:55 AM PDT

I think it was the other way around.. It doesn't feel like a halo game.

  • 11.28.2012 4:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Aang the Avatar
I feel like only half of you read the OP. He's talking about campaign, which is miles better than any previous Halo game.
> Final boss fight is a QTE

blegh


Halo 3: Final boss fight is a talking lightbulb.

343i wins.
They both suck? I didn't know the bar for "winning" design meant having better boss battles than Halo 3. You have some pretty low expectations.

  • 11.28.2012 4:58 AM PDT

Spit rounds like the gun range,
Beat it up like Rampage!

Offical Stats

Nice blog, bro.

  • 11.28.2012 5:11 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I would have agreed once, but it is not as simple as that anymore. There is expanded fiction being included more. There's no doubt about that, and it is beneficial in some ways to the story and universe being told. However the question you need to ask is what expanded fiction is it that is being included? There seems to be the stuff that Bungie sanctioned, and then the stuff 343i is producing and they appear quite separate. 343i's stuff taken in a vacuum is good enough to be enjoyable but I don't feel it meshes well with Halo's previous style. It creates a detachment. I would probably have enjoyed Halo 4 more by a vast amount had I not read Traviss' stuff beforehand. Halo 4, whilst not doing anything wrong on its own and having some interesting elements like Chief and Cortana's development, had EU elements like that detracting from the overall experience. It's a double edged sword. EU can enhance it, but it can also degrade it too.

Whereas before if there was awful EU, like The Flood, it was pretty much a self-contained entry and I could just ignore it knowing that Bungie had little input anyway and wasn't too hot on including much of it in their games (I wonder why that was). If 343i wasn't too eager on "revising" certain elements of the fiction, past games included, then I would enjoy it more as Halo. Maybe when Traviss is cut loose things will return to what they more or less were in the EU.

  • 11.28.2012 5:27 AM PDT

What the hell is extended media?

  • 11.28.2012 6:28 AM PDT


Posted by: Chupanebre627
What the hell is extended media?
Novels, comics, tv shows, films. The stuff outside the game.

  • 11.28.2012 6:32 AM PDT
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I enjoyed every aspect of H4's campaign a damn sight more than Reach's, that's for sure.

  • 11.28.2012 6:34 AM PDT

Perpetual Ninja in training.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

DMH

Los Paranoias


Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whiner?



For once, I agree with Fomy. The Master Chief was supposed to be the strong silent type, so that as a player, we could make ourselves the man under the mask. Now that he's starting to get a personality, we are losing something that is special to games. We are losing our ability to put ourselves both physically and emotionally into the character.

A gamer used to be able to imagine that they were the man behind the mask, or the man with the orange suit and glasses, because we already control that person, and make the combat decisions. But now, 343i has taken away the one magical aspect that the gaming medium has held over other media formats.

  • 11.28.2012 6:42 AM PDT

Country: United States.
State: Pennsylvania.
County: Warren.
I graduated from high school on June-11-2011. I'm 19 right now. I'm turning 20 in December. I like playing video games, and board games. I like reading Sci-Fi, and World War II novels, and what not.

"There is nothing better in the world than being better at a video game than someone else....oh wait"

Posted by: DarkVader9494

Posted by: Harbing3r UK

Posted by: DarkVader9494
343 didn't learn anything from Reach


Derp thats why they took out armour lock, fixed bloom and nerfed friendly fire.

And great post OP, agreed.
Because armor abilities as a whole and loadouts don't work in Halo.

Halo had armor abilities from the start. They were just on a smaller scale than Reaches.

Halo CE: Flashlight. The active camo the Elites and Flood use.
Halo 2: Flashlight. The Arbiter's active camo. The active camo the Grunts and Elites use.
Halo 3: Flashlight. The active camo the AI Arbiter and Brute Stalkers use.
Halo 3: ODST: That VISR Mode.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 6:54 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 6:44 AM PDT

"You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space." -Johnny Cash

Bungie didn't use elements from the extended media in the stories of their games because not everyone actually knows about those elements. If I didn't watch Forward Unto Dawn and read the newer Halo books, I wouldn't have understood Halo 4's story as well as I did.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 7:05 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 7:04 AM PDT


Posted by: edableshoe

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whiner?



For once, I agree with Fomy. The Master Chief was supposed to be the strong silent type, so that as a player, we could make ourselves the man under the mask. Now that he's starting to get a personality, we are losing something that is special to games. We are losing our ability to put ourselves both physically and emotionally into the character.

A gamer used to be able to imagine that they were the man behind the mask, or the man with the orange suit and glasses, because we already control that person, and make the combat decisions. But now, 343i has taken away the one magical aspect that the gaming medium has held over other media formats.
I think that stopped being true as the trilogy progressed. His growing relationship with Cortana, the banter they had, the trials they went through. You can't quite project yourself onto him after the first game. He gains more character after that. He's not some silent cyborg. Tbh, I've never projected myself into the character. I mean, there were moments I felt immersed when he was quiet and I was exploring. I felt I was in the game world. That happens in Halo 4 as well, however.

What Halo 4 did was strike a great balance of strong and stoic, yet making him more human. Make us understand him more, and yet retaining that mystery. He's still an ominous figure that leaves you in awe.

  • 11.28.2012 7:14 AM PDT

"I'm afraid of the man I'll become if I lay my life down for the people I don't even care for"

You could say that.... But Bungie still did a brilliant job grounding the story and connecting it with the extended media. Sure there were loopholes here and there, some more atrocious than others, but the Universe felt together.

Leaving some things to mystery and imagination, and others to explicit description. The forerunners were grand and extremely mysterious, spouting theories in the community here and there. Healthy, and exciting speculation.

It should have stayed that way. Halo was about the exploration of vague and ancient ideas, and things, with the whole picture infinitely larger than what was showed in the games, where as a player and a member of the community, it was our job to figure out what was beyond.

343i's depiction of the forerunners undoubtedly did not match other people's visions, and through fleshing out their story, made their superiority quite lackluster. The guardians of the galaxy, the bearers of the mantle, now the antagonists?

All the build up of "you are a forerunner", Medicant Bias's entries in the teriminals, IRIS, and so many different theories and even though this is all up for interpretation, 343 made it an objective to make Halo their own IP and not build off of previous ideas, an almost different IP.

Chief is turned into an emotional chatterbox after being a cold hearted bastard for the whole of his life, and Cortana just becomes an annoying -blam!-. The dynamic that Bungie set between the Chief and Cortana was perfect where it was this sort of detached emotion between the two. 343 made it too mushy. Sure Cortana was becoming rampant, but I wanted to see less tears and emotion and more insanity.

I wanted to see anger between the two characters. Instead it was turned into a melodrama.

The music didn't sound Halo at all, and the only thing that moved me was the credits music of "Never Forget". The rest sounded like a generic movie sound track and failed to give the emotional/epic touch Marty used to do.

343 failed in this regard. It was too much of a revolution, and not an evolution.

  • 11.28.2012 7:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Darthbill99

Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: Harbing3r UK
Do you know anything of the halo universe?

Yes. Bull-blam!- massive holes in the games weren't included.
I fail to see how it's a massive hole. Hard light can travel at the speed of light, Cortana could have grabbed him with the hard light before the nuclear reaction even started.
my god...hard light really is the Halo cop out now...

  • 11.28.2012 7:37 AM PDT


Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Aang the Avatar
One disappointing moment ruins the whole campaign?
Nah, the campaign couldn't be ruined because it never got good enough to be ruined for me. I'm surprised so little was explained in the campaign.
that's an easy fix! Just spend 60 dollars for the books on top of the 60 you already spent!

  • 11.28.2012 7:46 AM PDT

IMO Halo 4's campaign was the worst out of all Halo games, it seemed rushed as if 343i wanted to throw a ton of stuff at the player leaving a lot of unexplained things that can only be explained via the terminals. Now don't get me wrong it is ok that they explain this on their videos but why is there no option to watch them in game and instead we need to go to waypoint to see them?

The last fight was also very very dissapointing as it was just a tap "x" button so you dont die, instead of an actual fight.

That is campaign wise, now moving onto multiplayer:

1.- Maps suck, the only decent map is Ragnarok.. wich is Valhalla from H3.

2.- I had always liked Halo because it was a game where everyone started out on even ground the only advantage being skill, now with loadouts, ordinance drops and specialization perks higher level players have an advantage over newer or lowe rlevel players.

3.- Ordinance drops take away another aspect I liked about Halo, map controll, where you had to fight to get key locations to obtain power weapons that spawned on a specific area of the map, now people can just get a few kills call in ordinance and get power weapons delivered to them on demand, and there is also a specialization perk that allows you to select what you want to get.

4.- It looks like halo but it does not play like it at all, it reminds me more of an hybrid between CoD and Crysis 2.

Again thats my opinion.


  • 11.28.2012 8:25 AM PDT

Major props to my hommie Sheeef. He made Recon possible for me. Long time recovering emails and passwords. And it was his. lol.

Here's the thing.
Bungie>everyone else.

343i made a mistake by taking on the Halo realm. Especially for their "first real game." Yes it's a Halo game, but just the fact that it is Halo. Despite that 343i took on the project, we all played Halo due to it was another Halo game. Why? we love the Halo universe/multiverse. All in all, we got Halo and played Halo only because it was the next Halo game. Wouldn't have mattered who made it.
So again, 343i made it and yes they failed. HOPEFULLY they'll learn for next time.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 8:56 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 8:55 AM PDT


Posted by: BrownRiceKrispie
Where Bungie succeeded, 343 failed miserably.

Replayability.

Yes.

  • 11.28.2012 8:58 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: edableshoe

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whiner?



For once, I agree with Fomy. The Master Chief was supposed to be the strong silent type, so that as a player, we could make ourselves the man under the mask. Now that he's starting to get a personality, we are losing something that is special to games. We are losing our ability to put ourselves both physically and emotionally into the character.

A gamer used to be able to imagine that they were the man behind the mask, or the man with the orange suit and glasses, because we already control that person, and make the combat decisions. But now, 343i has taken away the one magical aspect that the gaming medium has held over other media formats.
I've always found the "projecting yourself into chief" to be BS. He is a chemically enhanced super-soldier from the future, who can truly relate to that? Chief is his own person with his own character and personality, and he always has been, Halo 4 just makes it more apparent. And I really don't get people calling him a chatter box, he still only talks when appropriate, never shares his own opinion, and never shows emotion until the very end. He is still very much the strong silent type.

  • 11.28.2012 9:03 AM PDT


Posted by: Zealot Tony
Before you enrol in Halo 4's campaign, you need the following prerequisites:

- Watch the terminals.
- Read Glasslands.
- Read the Forerunner Saga novels.


And this is the entire problem with the campaign, we shouldn't have to read 5 books worth of crap to be able to keep up with the actual game.

  • 11.28.2012 9:05 AM PDT

I am an unjust ban magnet. Thank you, Qbix89, you really are a rogue moderator. I hope you get disbanded soon.

Unjust bans on the main forums: 10
Bans on the main forms: 10


Posted by: BrownRiceKrispie
Where Bungie succeeded, 343 failed miserably.

Replayability.

This.
OP, I respect your opinions, but for me, the game was a massive dissapointment.

Let's face it; Halo 4 was never going to live up to it's hype.

There were bits I liked and bits that I didn't. Bits where, in my opinion, Bungie was better, and bits where 343 was better.


WARNING. THE FOLLOWING CONTENT OF THE POST CONTAINS SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.






The campaign was a massive new take on the franchise. To gain a decent understanding, one needs to read the Halo Foreunner books, watch the terminals and all that jazz. This helps you to understand The Didact's character. The campaign did take interesting turns, for example: The Didact's use of the Composer (more like Decomposer) on Earth and The Didact's Wife giving Master Cheif protection from it.

The characterisation was good. What I liked was that the acting had vastly improved and the character's movements (mainly the facial movements) were much more realistic. This, I think, 343 did better at.

However, Master Chief's character development seemed forced, and at times, nonexistant. Cortana's rampancy could have been played up to a much better effect. For example, during the last fight, it would have been better to have her pain increase with each division, eventually leading up to screaming agony (because, you know, she was going rampant). This would have made the end much more moving. The ending failed to immerse me that much. The fight with The Didact was dissapointing. Look at it like this: Master Chief had level 2 armour (remember what 343 Guilty Spark said in The Library over a decade ago in Halo CE?). He was going against a Foreunner. A Promethean (very high ranking). A Master Warrior Servant (only a few have been graced with that tile). His armour would have been at least 10 times that of Master Chief's. What did you do to defeat him? Stick a grenade on him and watch him fall. That segment in itself was buggy, as I had to press the grenade button multiple times in succession for it to work.

There were times where I didn't feel as if I was playing Halo. Where I was fighting the Prometheans in Foreunner environments with Forerunner weapons. It just didn't feel like Halo. At least with Halo Reach, I knew I was still playing Halo.

Tha campaign was incredibly buggy. When I'd start my console up and try to play where I left off, it kept jacking me back to Rally Point Alpha. So I had to wind it forward to where I actually was. Because of this, the game doesn't think I've finished about 3 levels, and so won't give me the achievements for those and furthermore finishing the game itself.

The matchmaking is glitchy and buggy as well. There have been times when I've emptied an entire magazine in to someone with no shields, only for them to kill me in a few shots. Also, my auto turret keeps delf destructing whenever I die (this does not happen in campaign). Only a few times has the game kept my turret alive. There are times when my armour abilities don't work or don't show up.

Some different concepts/additions to the matchmaking system feel too much like Call of Duty. For example, the ability to respawn instantly when in killcams, joining games in progress (while this is a good idea, as it solves the quitters issue, it creates team inbalances, much like in Call of Duty), even a system very similar to prestige, to name but a few. inb4 all the standard strawman arguments saying "IT'S TOO MUCK LIKE COD BECAUSE IT HAS GUNS, PIXELS, LEVELS, MULTIPLAYER AND SO ON".

To summarise, the game was very ambirious and daring, yet poorly excecuted.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 9:11 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 9:07 AM PDT

Agreed. Best Halo campaign yet but multiplayer is just a steaming pile of -blam!-

  • 11.28.2012 9:07 AM PDT

"Wake me...when you need me."

Halo 4 is the best one of the series overall.

  • 11.28.2012 9:09 AM PDT

Country: United States.
State: Pennsylvania.
County: Warren.
I graduated from high school on June-11-2011. I'm 19 right now. I'm turning 20 in December. I like playing video games, and board games. I like reading Sci-Fi, and World War II novels, and what not.

"There is nothing better in the world than being better at a video game than someone else....oh wait"

Posted by: AMW Godfather

Posted by: Zealot Tony
Before you enrol in Halo 4's campaign, you need the following prerequisites:

- Watch the terminals.
- Read Glasslands.
- Read the Forerunner Saga novels.


And this is the entire problem with the campaign, we shouldn't have to read 5 books worth of crap to be able to keep up with the actual game.

The other problem about the books is that if you don't like the authors that do them. You're not going to buy the books. Also the problem about the terminals is that you can't look at them in game. You have to use that Halo Waypoint app or YouTube to watch them. So you have to use outside resources to figure out what is going on in the game.

I'm OK with them trying to expend the lore with things like books. But they should have summed up the books in the game. So the people that didn't read them won't be lost. That's the mistake Bungie did with Reach. In order for that game to make sense you have to read that journal, but wait. You have to have the limited edition in order to read it.

I like what they did with First Strike. It tells you what happened in between Halo CE and Halo 2. But you don't need to read it in order to understand Halo 2.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 9:36 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 9:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: NAStheMagiking

Posted by: edableshoe

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whiner?



For once, I agree with Fomy. The Master Chief was supposed to be the strong silent type, so that as a player, we could make ourselves the man under the mask. Now that he's starting to get a personality, we are losing something that is special to games. We are losing our ability to put ourselves both physically and emotionally into the character.

A gamer used to be able to imagine that they were the man behind the mask, or the man with the orange suit and glasses, because we already control that person, and make the combat decisions. But now, 343i has taken away the one magical aspect that the gaming medium has held over other media formats.
I think that stopped being true as the trilogy progressed. His growing relationship with Cortana, the banter they had, the trials they went through. You can't quite project yourself onto him after the first game. He gains more character after that. He's not some silent cyborg. Tbh, I've never projected myself into the character. I mean, there were moments I felt immersed when he was quiet and I was exploring. I felt I was in the game world. That happens in Halo 4 as well, however.

What Halo 4 did was strike a great balance of strong and stoic, yet making him more human. Make us understand him more, and yet retaining that mystery. He's still an ominous figure that leaves you in awe.



i feel like trying to maintain the "strong silent type" actually damaged the halo story. it isn't supposed to be us under there, we play the game to experience the story. i feel like having close to no dialogue detracts and makes the events less personal. i thought halo 4 was right where it should be. it didn't feel like he was over talking to me atleast. he only said what was important or when he needed to respond to others talking to him.

  • 11.28.2012 9:24 AM PDT