Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded
  • Subject: Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded
Subject: Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: DaTsmartkiDD
Yes, but where Bungie succeeded the most, 343i failed.

There's many small details missing, as if 343 is trying hard to forget Bungie.

I have issues with 343i as well; I find it rather inexcusable that the Infection gametype is no longer available in its original state for custom games and precision editing without coordinates is gone. These detractions take away from the game, but again, they don't kill it.

Regardless, this thread is primarily about the campaign, not because the other stuff isn't important, but because I hold the Universe of Halo near and dear to my heart and place most of my judgment there.

I also disagree with you when you say that 343i tries to forget Bungie. Through the decisions they've made through the game, and the interviews shown in the ViDocs, it's rather clear that 343i is using Bungie's work as a springboard. 343i has shown no resentment of Bungie whatsoever.

  • 11.28.2012 4:23 PM PDT

deviantART

Hello.


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Bungie's strength as a developer was always environments and gameplay, never storytelling and character development.


I'll have to disagree with your opinion.

  • 11.28.2012 4:30 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: WrongLord

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Bungie's strength as a developer was always environments and gameplay, never storytelling and character development.


I'll have to disagree with your opinion.

How so? Bungie never successfully developed a character in one of their games. The Master Chief had no personality compared to his depictions in the novels, and the ODSTs and Noble Team were bland and generic heroes from flicks you've seen in the past. Bungie has always excelled in telling their stories through the environments they put the player in or what they don't tell the player. This is really seen when you contrast Halo 4 to any of the games of the previous trilogy or Reach/ODST.

I'm sorry, but I don't see a strong case for Bungie being great engineers of characters.

  • 11.28.2012 4:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not want to stop asking. I do not ask to stop wanting.

-respect and evolution of Halo's thematic principles

-subtle evolutions of Chief's character (especially through his dialogue in the last scene as he tries approaching the conflict at hand normally at first, and then realizes that he has truly lost this time)

-"AI is more human than the humans"

-"Broken character becomes human trying to save the human character from becoming broken"

-several metaphors and allegories (ex. how Chief's body armor, for the first time, is taken off at the end of the game- symbolizing how the level headed, always calm, damn near stubborn Chief has become human)

Just to name a few areas where your statement rings true.

Yeah, Halo 4's story kicked a$$.

[Edited on 11.28.2012 5:06 PM PST]

  • 11.28.2012 5:03 PM PDT

Xbox LIVE gamertag: Dat3lessNutella
Steam username: TopWargamer
To look up my Halo stats...search for the gamertag TopWargamer.
SAVED THREAD PAGES: 283
One does not simply get rid of TopWargamer so easily.
You know this to be true.
ALL HAIL GABEN


Posted by: Fegelein
TLDR

  • 11.28.2012 5:03 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: Haloroach
-respect and evolution of Halo's thematic principles

-subtle evolutions of Chief's character (especially through his dialogue in the last scene as he tries approaching the conflict at hand normally at first, and then realizes that he has truly lost this time)

-"AI is more human than the humans"

-"Broken character becomes human trying to save the human character from becoming broken"

-several metaphors and allegories (ex. how Chief's body armor, for the first time, is taken off at the end of the game- symbolizing how the level headed, always calm, damn near stubborn Chief has become human)

Just to name a few areas where your statement rings true.

Yeah, Halo 4's story kicked a$$.

Precisely. This level of thematic depth has simply not been explored to this extent in any of Bungie's games. Ultimately, Halo 4 succeeded at what Reach also failed at; humanizing the Spartans. Trying to humanize super soldiers who don't seem that super in the first place (Reach) is a fool's errand. In addition, the characters were completely unbeknownst prior to the game's publishing and were developed very poorly.

I love Bungie, I truly do. But it's time to face the simple fact that they aren't the best storytellers and developers of characters. These are real areas of improvement that they should focus on as developers as they develop new games.

  • 11.29.2012 12:13 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

We all experience it differently. One guys strong emotional experience is the next guys weak confusing poorly told experience.

Personally I thought the Campaign was ok at best. Not bad by any means, but none of the razor sharp clean focus of H1 or desperate struggle of Reach.

There are a lot of really weird elements in the H4 storyline, especially in how the gameplay itself tells the story. Still find the last level in the Campaign almost crushingly anti-climactic, especially compared to classic levels like The Maw.

  • 11.29.2012 12:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

You don't get it son. This isn't a mud hole, it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.

Lol OP thinks halo 4's campaign is better than halo 2's.

  • 11.29.2012 12:22 PM PDT

Why didn't you post this on waypoint where everybody cares?

  • 11.29.2012 12:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

3rd edition. Now with more grunt.

TFS 4 lyfe


Posted by: The Batman 99
Lol OP thinks halo 4's campaign is better than halo 2's.


Give me 10 good reasons why that is not the case.

  • 11.29.2012 12:29 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Posted by: Rabid Grunt 3
Posted by: The Batman 99
Lol OP thinks halo 4's campaign is better than halo 2's.


Give me 10 good reasons why that is not the case.


Hmmm I'll give it a shot.

10 reasons why H2 Campaign is better than H4;

1. Large open explorable environments
2. More varieties of enemy (Covenant, Flood, Sentinel)
3. Boss battles are terrible but better than QTEs
4. Scarabs
5. Play as the Arbiter
6. Fight alongside Elites, Grunts, Jackals and Hunters
7. Johnson
8. ODSTs
9. Scarab Gun
10. A more understandable bad guy

Personally I think H4 has a better Campaign than H2. Just thought I'd indulge you.

  • 11.29.2012 12:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

3rd edition. Now with more grunt.

TFS 4 lyfe


Posted by: flamedude
Just thought I'd indulge you.


Damn, of all the people to fall into my trap, it had to be someone who I agree with.

Damn you.

  • 11.29.2012 1:00 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: The Batman 99
Lol OP thinks halo 4's campaign is better than halo 2's.

I think the quality of certain elements of Halo 4's campaign is superior to Halo 2's campaign for sure--storytelling being the most prominent. I try not to pin absolutes in terms of judgment (i.e., I try to break it down into digestible parts). Saying Halo CE was better than Halo 4 is rather meaningless on the whole since there are many components that may vary from game to game.

Posted by: flamedude
We all experience it differently. One guys strong emotional experience is the next guys weak confusing poorly told experience.

Personally I thought the Campaign was ok at best. Not bad by any means, but none of the razor sharp clean focus of H1 or desperate struggle of Reach.

There are a lot of really weird elements in the H4 storyline, especially in how the gameplay itself tells the story. Still find the last level in the Campaign almost crushingly anti-climactic, especially compared to classic levels like The Maw.

The desperate struggle for Reach was conveyed much better in the novel than the game. Reach lacked the cohesiveness that Halo 4 had and the developed characters that are imperative for a tale Bungie tried to tell to work.

The gameplay telling the story is an integral part of any good gaming experience. Halo CE was perhaps the master of this concept considering how little dialogue there truly was and how little explanation was given. This is something to be appreciated.

  • 11.29.2012 1:41 PM PDT

There's a “U” and “I” in union but just an “I” in my beliefs


Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whore?

Fix'd

But really, Chief's voice just didn't even sound right toward the end of the game. Rather than a deep voiced but mainly silent badass he sounded like an old hick with a raspy voice and he didn't just seem the way I like him.
Good, I'm not the only on who thought this.

  • 11.29.2012 1:42 PM PDT

This thread has been going around for 2-3 days. Give up OP. Bungie succeeded, 343i failed.

  • 11.29.2012 1:45 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: D Deity

Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Where Bungie Failed, 343i Succeeded I assume you're referring to turning Master Chief from a strong silent type to an annoying chatterbox, and Cortana from a sassy fireball to an apologetic whore?

Fix'd

But really, Chief's voice just didn't even sound right toward the end of the game. Rather than a deep voiced but mainly silent badass he sounded like an old hick with a raspy voice and he didn't just seem the way I like him.
Good, I'm not the only on who thought this.

There are some very valid criticisms of the campaign.

This is not one of them. At no point in the campaign was John grossly out of character or was Cortana acting out of the parameters of what rampancy induces. At no point did John take a sharp turn in personality from cold and silent to caring and sympathetic. If anything, 343i knows these characters as well as Bungie does (not surprising given Frankie is running the show).

You can complain about the abundance of switches to activate and the brevity of the experience, but honestly, criticizing Halo 4's campaign for giving John a personality which is not contradicted by the EU is silly.

  • 11.29.2012 1:51 PM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
Posted by: Rabid Grunt 3
Posted by: The Batman 99
Lol OP thinks halo 4's campaign is better than halo 2's.


Give me 10 good reasons why that is not the case.


Hmmm I'll give it a shot.

10 reasons why H2 Campaign is better than H4;

1. Large open explorable environments

I always thought the general consensus was that Halo 2 was a linear game. If you're talking about the fact that you could leave the intended player space then that's discounted because, as said, it's not the intended space. Tbh, Halo 4 had more open spaces than 2 did. The most open 2 got was Quarantine Zone, and even that wasn't so big.

2. More varieties of enemy (Covenant, Flood, Sentinel)

One more faction than 4, and the Flood weren't as fun to fight in 2 as they were in 1. Sentinels weren't particularly engaging either, let's be honest.

3. Boss battles are terrible but better than QTEs

Can't really cite a boss fight that, by your own admission, is terrible. Halo 4's QTE at least was over quickly. I'll admit I was left wanting more, but a fight with the Didact at this point would be pointless given how superior he was.

4. Scarabs

It was on rails. Halo 3's I can get behind, though. At least they were more dynamic.

5. Play as the Arbiter

It's a shame his side of the Campaign, overall, wasn't that fun. He's a pretty cool guy, though.

6. Fight alongside Elites, Grunts, Jackals and Hunters

That was pretty cool, yes. Mostly the Hunters.

7. Johnson

People may hate me for it, but I wasn't so crazy about Johnson, which is reinforced by my lack of emotion when he died. He, to me, was just a cliche. It was okay for the first game, but I thought he'd develop.

8. ODSTs

They didn't really offer anything more special than Halo 4's Spartan allies.

9. Scarab Gun

Well, it was cool...

10. A more understandable bad guy

The Didact's goal and motivations were made clear during the Campaign. The latter was made known very quickly during his amazingly executed introduction.

Personally I think H4 has a better Campaign than H2. Just thought I'd indulge you.

Btw, I do like Halo 2.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 2:40 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 2:22 PM PDT