Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???
  • Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???
Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.

  • 11.29.2012 7:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

We are going to have to agree to disagree Ken.

Though, the thread asks why people are upset, and you just seem to want to attack the legitimacy of their anger.

By using public funds to put up only a Christmas tree, non-Christians feel excluded from society. It establishes a state sponsored religious holiday, which is something we are not supposed to do.

So, we could choose to celebrate all faiths, and not assume that everyone is Christian, or do away with the public sponsoring decorations for any holiday.

People are just mad that it appears that we are all Christian, and the only way to be in the fun is to be Christian.


Conifers have nothing to do with Christ, neither does the gift giving and Santa Clause. While Santa Clause is based of the real Saint Nicholas, the Character he is today is only related in one aspect, the gift giving. It'd violate the Free Exercise clause if there were a cross, or a menorah.
By placing it at arms lengths fools no one.


It isn't at arms length, the tree means literally nothing to the Christian Holiday.

  • 11.29.2012 7:21 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

They call me graland.

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Everyone should be forced to say Happy Holidays.

Get over it.
LOL.

  • 11.29.2012 7:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.


Can you tell me when that phrase was introduced, and it's actual constitutionality? The Founders were deists, just thought I would throw that out there.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:22 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:21 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)

Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?

Posted by: A Deaf Boy
We're talking about something the overwhelming majority of the country celebrates and/or reaps the benefits from (time off work, presents, whatever).
Argumentum Ad Populum

  • 11.29.2012 7:22 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

We are going to have to agree to disagree Ken.

Though, the thread asks why people are upset, and you just seem to want to attack the legitimacy of their anger.

By using public funds to put up only a Christmas tree, non-Christians feel excluded from society. It establishes a state sponsored religious holiday, which is something we are not supposed to do.

So, we could choose to celebrate all faiths, and not assume that everyone is Christian, or do away with the public sponsoring decorations for any holiday.

People are just mad that it appears that we are all Christian, and the only way to be in the fun is to be Christian.


Conifers have nothing to do with Christ, neither does the gift giving and Santa Clause. While Santa Clause is based of the real Saint Nicholas, the Character he is today is only related in one aspect, the gift giving. It'd violate the Free Exercise clause if there were a cross, or a menorah.
By pl;acing it at arms lengths fools no one.

Publically celebrating Christmas is the dejure selection of a state religion, possibly de facto.

Whether its the Americana Christmas or the religious celebration, both are centered around Jesus' birth. There is no denying this. Just because the Americana celebration has strayed, it is still a nod to only one religion.

That's why people get pissed when they see public Christmas trees. Even if the Americana is all about consumerism and such, its still an arm's-length religious celebration that they can't join in.

American ideals state we are an inclusive culture. Whether you say we are the Melting Pot or a Tossed Salad, we are all supposed to be here getting along. Public Christmas Trees violate that and say that some are more equal than others.
I don't believe we should change our culture and ideologies because we invite others into our country. I wouldn't go to another country and do that to them. Christmas has been apart of society for decades why change it now because some people link it to Christianity? Obviously it has now became a societal norm as a celebration. A celebration for what is dependent on whoever interprets it. It's a normal holiday to me to spend time with family. If only everyone thought like that.

  • 11.29.2012 7:22 PM PDT

"They don't call him Flopper for nothing"-AquaBlader

No, but I also find it obserd that having a public Menorah (Judaism) is considered a war on christmas.

  • 11.29.2012 7:23 PM PDT


Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
you can count on stupid -blam!- Christians to use the tree as a religious symbol when it's not and stupid people in general to take offense just to cause trouble. It's a sad society today

  • 11.29.2012 7:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.

  • 11.29.2012 7:23 PM PDT

You got stuck by FalconStickr

Only the people who hate cheer.

  • 11.29.2012 7:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.


The irony is so thick in this post that it could be cut with a butter knife. "Under God" was added in the 50s during the Red scare. The genius behind the introduction of the phrase was that the godless commies wouldn't say "Under God" because they were atheist.

  • 11.29.2012 7:23 PM PDT


Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?

Posted by: A Deaf Boy
We're talking about something the overwhelming majority of the country celebrates and/or reaps the benefits from (time off work, presents, whatever).
Argumentum Ad Populum
pre 2004 they weren't. There is nothing in the bible referring to Christmas trees. Adding stuff in because they can just doesn't make sense.

  • 11.29.2012 7:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.


The irony is so thick in this post that it could be cut with a butter knife. "Under God" was added in the 50s during the Red scare. The genius behind the introduction of the phrase was that the godless commies wouldn't say "Under God" because they were atheist.


Aw why'd you have to tell him? They don't learn otherwise.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:25 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:24 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

It shouldn't.

  • 11.29.2012 7:24 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)


Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

  • 11.29.2012 7:24 PM PDT

"They don't call him Flopper for nothing"-AquaBlader

I love how America is founded on the idea of religious freedom and then we put God in the national anthem and idiots aka some posters above me are convinced that it's an only Christian nation.
Idiots

  • 11.29.2012 7:25 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: AK FROST
I don't believe we should change our culture and ideologies because we invite others into our country. I wouldn't go to another country and do that to them. Christmas has been apart of society for decades why change it now because some people link it to Christianity? Obviously it has now became a societal norm as a celebration. A celebration for what is dependent on whoever interprets it. It's a normal holiday to me to spend time with family. If only everyone thought like that.


That's just it, we've already invited them, and they are already here.

Like I said, placing the religious roots at arm's-length doesn't remove the fact that the roots of teh holiday are religious.

Now, we can either choose between having an inclusive society (and publicly celebrating every represented holiday) or not publicly celebrating any holiday.

Like someone said above, this is just about the government sponsoring Christmas symbolism. If WalMart or some other private interest wants to put a tree up, fine, that's their choice.

  • 11.29.2012 7:26 PM PDT

It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.

  • 11.29.2012 7:26 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.


Can you tell me when that phrase was introduced, and it's actual constitutionality? The Founders were deists, just thought I would throw that out there.

Are you serious? Early politicians were overwhelmingly Christian, however varying in how deeply they followed it. A vast majority of early American poets almost always referred to God in their poems. The Pilgrims established America's first complete Christian society. I'm not talking about the constitutionality of anything. Whether it's constitutional or not, Christianity has always been a huge factor in the history of the USA.

  • 11.29.2012 7:27 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.

  • 11.29.2012 7:28 PM PDT

Pure Insanity
The point of war is not to die for one's clan, but it's to make the other bastard die for his
Right before you die, there is always a chance to save yourself, sieze that chance and live to fight another day
The best way to kill someone is to fight them with the same weapons they use and make them know you are better than them, not because of superior weaponry, but because of superior skill.
Hidden in the shadows, Clothed in camo, Armed to the teeth. Hunting.


Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.


Given that the tree is a symbol of Christmas, which is in essence a religious holiday for Christianity, I'd say it is.

But another point is that it has also become a secular holiday to many people, and has many non religious ties.

  • 11.29.2012 7:29 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.
If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.

  • 11.29.2012 7:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?]


The Pope can add symbolic meaning to any object he pleases, but that doesn't necessarily detract from the object's use as a secular entity.

For example, the wine is representative in Christian theology as God's covenant in blood, and the bread symbolizes life. Does this mean that a politician isn't allowed to serve bread or wine at government functions?

Another example, the rainbow is a sign of God's promise to never destroy the Earth again via flood. Does this bar government offices from having pictures of rainbows in their offices?

Unless a symbol is blatantly religious, I.E. the cross, then they should be allowed to be shown on government property. Provided that government officials don't explicitly put it there for religious reasons.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:32 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: RaZorRyaN
The main reason is the roots of Christmas. Most people these days dont believe in Jesus Christ, and considering that he is reason why we have Christmas people will be offended by anything that reminds them of Christmas. What people fail to realize however, is that this nation was founded on God, thus Christmas is technically our most important holiday as a nation. Im not saying that everybody should be christian, but scoffing at those who know the meaning of the holiday is rude, and dumb. Also, i dont see why people are offended by Christmas trees excluding the roots of Christmas. They are just pine trees with lights, cheap decorations, and in some cases food. It isnt anything to be butthurt about.


You best be trolling.

God had literally nothing to do with the founding of this country beyond which God people want to worship. If this were a "Christian nation" then the Establishment and Free Exercise clause wouldn't exist.

"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.


The irony is so thick in this post that it could be cut with a butter knife. "Under God" was added in the 50s during the Red scare. The genius behind the introduction of the phrase was that the godless commies wouldn't say "Under God" because they were atheist.


Aw why'd you have to tell him? They don't learn otherwise.


Sorry :(((

  • 11.29.2012 7:30 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: AK FROST
I don't believe we should change our culture and ideologies because we invite others into our country. I wouldn't go to another country and do that to them. Christmas has been apart of society for decades why change it now because some people link it to Christianity? Obviously it has now became a societal norm as a celebration. A celebration for what is dependent on whoever interprets it. It's a normal holiday to me to spend time with family. If only everyone thought like that.


That's just it, we've already invited them, and they are already here.

Like I said, placing the religious roots at arm's-length doesn't remove the fact that the roots of teh holiday are religious.

Now, we can either choose between having an inclusive society (and publicly celebrating every represented holiday) or not publicly celebrating any holiday.

Like someone said above, this is just about the government sponsoring Christmas symbolism. If WalMart or some other private interest wants to put a tree up, fine, that's their choice.
Interesting point. But will the good out weight the bad. If this becomes not allowed will people become outraged as Christmas has became a societal norm for many years christianity aside? Sociology is an interesting thing isn't it? How it evolves as time moves on. I can see an example like the lords prayer during political netting a but a Christmas tree can be interpreted not only as religious but as socially acceptable maybe this is not becoming the case. Thanks for opening my eyes.

  • 11.29.2012 7:30 PM PDT