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  • Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???
Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.


Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of Christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.
This... So much this...

*Protestant

So I don't really care what the Pope says...

  • 11.29.2012 7:31 PM PDT


Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?]


The Pope can add symbolic meaning to any object he pleases, but that doesn't necessarily detract from the object's use as a secular entity.

For example, the wine is representative in Christian theology as God's covenant in blood, and the bread symbolizes life. Does this mean that a politician isn't allowed to serve bread or wine at government functions?

Another example, the rainbow is a sign of God's promise to never destroy the Earth again via flood. Does this bar government offices from having pictures of rainbows in their offices?
This is a very good point from the other side of the coin.

  • 11.29.2012 7:32 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)


Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.
Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.

  • 11.29.2012 7:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: PheonixofLight

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.


Given that the tree is a symbol of Christmas, which is in essence a religious holiday for Christianity, I'd say it is.

But another point is that it has also become a secular holiday to many people, and has many non religious ties.


It is a symbol Christmas in the secular sense, I am not even christian and I think the Cross is the symbol for Christ, and therefore is the symbol for the celebration of his birth, (which is off anyway, but that is a different story) the tree came from a Pagan holiday (also related to the date being wrong) and Christmas was used to make the transition from Pagan, to Christian, a lot easier.


Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.
Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.


>Not Catholic
>Not christian

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:32 PM PDT

Dutchy you're truly offended by xmas trees?

So does that mean all pine trees offend you?

  • 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.
If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.


There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas.

  • 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.
If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.
In light of the other tree discussions going on in here, this post makes no sense...

  • 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.
Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.


Did he speak ex cathedra on the matter? If not, it's open for theological disagreement.

  • 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.
If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.


There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas.


I'm a deist, and I celebrate the hell out of Christmas.

I get free -blam!-, why wouldn't I celebrate it?

  • 11.29.2012 7:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: DrBeepBoop
It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed.

Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good.

But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.


They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together.
If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.


There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas.
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.

  • 11.29.2012 7:34 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.


Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: King Dutchy
Posted by: AK FROST
Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm catholic the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.
Are you sure about that?


I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.
Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.
Not all Christians care what the Pope says... I'd even venture to say that not many Catholics in America care either. (Not that I would really know...)

  • 11.29.2012 7:35 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.

  • 11.29.2012 7:35 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.


My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.

  • 11.29.2012 7:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Now, we can either choose between having an inclusive society (and publicly celebrating every represented holiday) or not publicly celebrating any holiday.



OK, either-or.

I highly doubt that anyone would care if any other holiday wanted to publicly celebrate. I have not heard of anyone trying to stop them. If by inclusive, you mean they will all be celebrated like Christmas, that's not going to happen. Those holidays don't have cultural roots in American society like Christmas, nor will they ever. You would have to force society to celebrate a holiday it doesn't want to for it to be as publicly celebrated as Christmas, and somehow I don't think that is a great idea.

  • 11.29.2012 7:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.


American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts.

  • 11.29.2012 7:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.


Too bad you are wrong.

The founders were deist. In fact, John Adams even said; As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?


It's pretty obvious he wasn't fond of Christianity.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:38 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:37 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.

Listen, when you live in a country where the majority of the population is Christian, then you should know they are going to celebrate Christmas.

  • 11.29.2012 7:37 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.
Safe advice, if you care about your account.

  • 11.29.2012 7:37 PM PDT

<3

no, we just like to complain

  • 11.29.2012 7:37 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.


American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts.

Right, that's all I'm saying.

  • 11.29.2012 7:38 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
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Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.


My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.
OK, last time.

Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity.

So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society.

So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.

  • 11.29.2012 7:38 PM PDT

Why do we have to be so politically correct? Such a joke.

  • 11.29.2012 7:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.


American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts.

Right, that's all I'm saying.


Don't mention our Government next time then.

  • 11.29.2012 7:39 PM PDT
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Tom
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Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.


American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts.

Right, that's all I'm saying.


So, you agree that religious displays should be absent from federal property, correct?

  • 11.29.2012 7:39 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.

That would cause too much religious tension.

  • 11.29.2012 7:39 PM PDT