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  • Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???
Subject: Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???

Pure Insanity
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Right before you die, there is always a chance to save yourself, sieze that chance and live to fight another day
The best way to kill someone is to fight them with the same weapons they use and make them know you are better than them, not because of superior weaponry, but because of superior skill.
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Posted by: ErranInfigo

It is a symbol Christmas in the secular sense, I am not even christian and I think the Cross is the symbol for Christ, and therefore is the symbol for the celebration of his birth, (which is off anyway, but that is a different story) the tree came from a Pagan holiday (also related to the date being wrong) and Christmas was used to make the transition from Pagan, to Christian, a lot easier.



Yes, it is a more secular symbol, but that doesn't detract from the fact that Christmas is a religiously rooted holiday. As a symbol for a religious holiday, it can be seen as a symbol with religious roots as well. That is regardless of its Pagan origin (The holiday for which it started was likely religious as well).

Like I said, it is a symbol in both senses, religious and secular.

  • 11.29.2012 7:40 PM PDT

All Retards are Retarded...

You Catch My Drift??????????

Everyone thinks they can complain about every little thing it's -blam!- annoying.

It is a tree with lights and decorations.

People these days suck

  • 11.29.2012 7:41 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

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I've been around for a long, long year
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Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.

That would cause too much religious tension.
Isn't religious tension exactly what we are discussing in this thread?

  • 11.29.2012 7:41 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
OK, last time.

Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity.

So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society.

So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.

It doesn't seem to be getting in their heads...

  • 11.29.2012 7:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.


My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.
OK, last time.

Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity.

So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society.

So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.


Okay.

Put a menorah near the tree, hell put a crescent and a star, or maybe a representation of the 5 pillars of Islam.

I. Don't. Care. The Government can recognize a religion, but not endorse it. I don't see a Christmas tree on the town center as my Local government endorsing a religion I honestly dislike.

  • 11.29.2012 7:41 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush

Yes, advocating one religion in the absence of others (in the public sphere) is offensive

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:42 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion.
Oh, but according to you, it was founded on Christianity. Didn't you?

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
It seems that you did.

  • 11.29.2012 7:42 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.


My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.
OK, last time.

Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity.

So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society.

So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.
That would be a city/state problem. Plus, that's how society works, the majority of people, with the same beliefs are going to have majority say. If you live in America, you should know that the majority of the population is Christian, thus, they will celebrate christian holidays.

No where does it say they have to be left out of the celebrations or out of the loop. They have the freedom to go and celebrate their own holiday.

  • 11.29.2012 7:42 PM PDT

I like to play Reach for fun. I hate MLG, campers, armor lock, and team killers because they ruin that fun. Deal with it.

I don't follow the religions that celebrate holidays such as Christmas or Easter, but it doesn't bother me when I see Santa at the mall or people wishing me a Merry Christmas. If you get offended at this... *sigh*

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:43 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:42 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: Adamal123

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And there are plenty who don't.

Your point?

Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.


My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.
OK, last time.

Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity.

So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society.

So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.
That would be a city/state problem. Plus, that's how society works, the majority of people, with the same beliefs are going to have majority say. If you live in America, you should know that the majority of the population is Christian, thus, they will celebrate christian holidays.

No where does it say they have to be left out of the celebrations or out of the loop. They have the freedom to go and celebrate their own holiday.


For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.

  • 11.29.2012 7:43 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Locke357
Yes, advocating one religion in the absence of others (in the public sphere) is offensive


No one else is really being exclusivity, everyone has a right to practice and believe what they want.

Wouldn't the act of preventing people from celebrating their beliefs be just as if not more offensive than a pine tree with ornaments?

  • 11.29.2012 7:45 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.

Sadly though, that's not how it happens. The Government gives power to the majority. Majority = Christians. Christians = Christmas.

  • 11.29.2012 7:45 PM PDT

I swear to god I will punch someone in the face if I seen some guy at my college complaining about our christmas tree

  • 11.29.2012 7:45 PM PDT

Pure Insanity
The point of war is not to die for one's clan, but it's to make the other bastard die for his
Right before you die, there is always a chance to save yourself, sieze that chance and live to fight another day
The best way to kill someone is to fight them with the same weapons they use and make them know you are better than them, not because of superior weaponry, but because of superior skill.
Hidden in the shadows, Clothed in camo, Armed to the teeth. Hunting.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.



Pfft. You must have forgotten. We vote for our government by majority.

A government voted for by the majority represents the values of that majority. The ideals of the minority have a much lesser possibility of being recognized because it is just the minority, and has limited power because it is faced by the majority.

[Edited on 11.29.2012 7:47 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2012 7:45 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

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Blarg. I want to stay, but I must go to bed. Nighty-night, all.

  • 11.29.2012 7:46 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

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Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
So, you agree that religious displays should be absent from federal property, correct?

Christmas can be seen through a secular looking glass, and it's just part of the tradition of America. Christmas is kind of ambiguous, whether its roots are or not. You can celebrate it without Christ, or you can celebrate it with. What you really should be asking me is do I agree that the US government should stop celebrating a holiday that we have traditionally celebrated since the beginning of this country? No, I don't think so. Simply because a select few minorities feel offended that our country celebrates it doesn't warrant the need to abolish it. It's part of our culture, our tradition, and part of our society's fiber. It's just what we do. If you don't like it, you don't have to live here.

  • 11.29.2012 7:46 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
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Posted by: PheonixofLight

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.



Pfft. You must have forgotten. We vote for our government by majority.

A government voted for by the majority represents the values of that majority.


The majority in no way, shape, or form has the right to oppress or impose their beliefs on the minority through governmental power.

  • 11.29.2012 7:47 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)


Posted by: PheonixofLight

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.



Pfft. You must have forgotten. We vote for our government by majority.

A government voted for by the majority represents the values of that majority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority]>> >

  • 11.29.2012 7:47 PM PDT

I am the Troll King.

Being "Offended" is like saying your joy offends me. :/

  • 11.29.2012 7:47 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
Follow your own advice

You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion.
Oh, but according to you, it was founded on Christianity. Didn't you?

Posted by: AgentCOP1
"One nation, under God..."
If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... go to a history class or something lol.
It seems that you did.

I worded that wrong. I should have said society, not nation. Sorry for making a mistake.

  • 11.29.2012 7:47 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: PheonixofLight

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.



Pfft. You must have forgotten. We vote for our government by majority.

A government voted for by the majority represents the values of that majority.


The majority in no way, shape, or form has the right to oppress or impose their beliefs on the minority through governmental power.
Where is this oppression you speak of?

  • 11.29.2012 7:48 PM PDT


Posted by: Adamal123

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.

Sadly though, that's not how it happens. The Government gives power to the majority. Majority = Christians. Christians = Christmas.

No. The government is meant to represent the people.

What you said makes no sense. The people voting against the winner could have all been Christian.

  • 11.29.2012 7:48 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: ABotelho

Posted by: Adamal123

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.

Sadly though, that's not how it happens. The Government gives power to the majority. Majority = Christians. Christians = Christmas.

No. The government is meant to represent the people.

What you said makes no sense. The people voting against the winner could have all been Christian.
Yeah, it's meant to, but are you really going to give x amount of people the same amount of say as xxxxxxxxx amount of people? That would be unfair.

  • 11.29.2012 7:50 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: Adamal123

Posted by: ABotelho

Posted by: Adamal123

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.

Sadly though, that's not how it happens. The Government gives power to the majority. Majority = Christians. Christians = Christmas.

No. The government is meant to represent the people.

What you said makes no sense. The people voting against the winner could have all been Christian.
Yeah, it's meant to, but are you really going to give x amount of people the same amount of say as xxxxxxxxx amount of people? That would be unfair.

That's just how democracy works. Not hard to understand, really.

  • 11.29.2012 7:52 PM PDT

Pure Insanity
The point of war is not to die for one's clan, but it's to make the other bastard die for his
Right before you die, there is always a chance to save yourself, sieze that chance and live to fight another day
The best way to kill someone is to fight them with the same weapons they use and make them know you are better than them, not because of superior weaponry, but because of superior skill.
Hidden in the shadows, Clothed in camo, Armed to the teeth. Hunting.


Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: PheonixofLight

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

For real this time, last go:

I will only say this to you: The Government represents ALL people, not just the Majority.



Pfft. You must have forgotten. We vote for our government by majority.

A government voted for by the majority represents the values of that majority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority]>> >

Fail?

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
The majority in no way, shape, or form has the right to oppress or impose their beliefs on the minority through governmental power.


I never said that they do. But it is the majority that puts the people they want into government positions. Those people in those government positions are being voted for because they represent the values of the majority of people, enough to be elected. Therefore, the values of that majority are recognized and given more power in how our country is governed.

  • 11.29.2012 7:52 PM PDT