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  • Subject: So you want to learn about 3d and make games?
Subject: So you want to learn about 3d and make games?
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残酷な天使のテーゼ

CryEngine 3 > UDK

also, you need Adobe Flash in there. Not for Flash games, but for the use of Autodesk Scaleform

  • 12.02.2012 4:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: Cats
blender animation


The animation in there was incredible. I'd say at this point the only thing stopping me from going the 3D route would be its learning curve and time frame. For a lone animator or even a small team it's still a long project, especially considering my experience level. Though I imagine it isn't wise to limit myself or the potential scale of the project based on experience level.

Also, I've heard some unfavorable things about Blender. What would be the pros and cons versus Maya?

I can't personally say whether blender is better than Maya (it really depends on your skill as an animator). But I have worked a lot in Maya's animation tools and can vouch that they can produce some excellent results. The Autodesk description litterally states: 'Maya 3D animation software delivers a comprehensive creative feature set with tools for animation.' There will be a lot of small problems that you will run into, such as the infamous gimbal lock, and maya has a lot of tools that can fix them with quick and relative ease.

How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?

  • 12.02.2012 4:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: Cats
blender animation


The animation in there was incredible. I'd say at this point the only thing stopping me from going the 3D route would be its learning curve and time frame. For a lone animator or even a small team it's still a long project, especially considering my experience level. Though I imagine it isn't wise to limit myself or the potential scale of the project based on experience level.

Also, I've heard some unfavorable things about Blender. What would be the pros and cons versus Maya?

Yeah I understand. Much more efficient to stick to what you know but I wish you luck with whichever you decide to do.
I don't know enough about the differences to say but here is one of many blender vs maya threads.
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?25382-Blender-v s-Maya
I would google more of these and do some research if I were in your position. But do know that there are a lot of people who only use one program and badmouth others. I am generally a one program kind of guy but I try my very best to keep an unbiased educated view on all programs I encounter.

  • 12.02.2012 4:22 PM PDT

Color The Sky
Lost In Las Vegas
Missed You

Remember all
The sadness and frustration
And let it go

3D modelling scares me, but it is something I'd like to learn how to do eventually, create some people and stuff.

  • 12.02.2012 4:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Coffee Boy

Posted by: Cats

Posted by: The Coffee Boy
If people are seriously looking into 3D arts, esspecially in games, check out these websites:

Polycount is a my personal favorite site for getting critiques or finding tutorials. The people there can be a little brutally honest, but that's kinda how the art world works.

Poly Count Wiki is where I go to find the majority of the tutorials I read. It can be a bit confusing for a noob, but once you start to understand how to make game art this site is great asset to make your work better.

Digital Tutors is another great place to go for getting information on how to model/texture/etc. I like this site because they use video tutorials, which is nice if your more of a visual learner. Their videos range fro basic to advanced, so this is a great place to start. Only downside is that you need to pay for some of their most in depth info.

Eat 3D is another good video tutorial website, though I think you have to do something special to join (my teachers gave me an account to use, so I never made one.) They also sell DVD's of their videos, so you could just purchase their tut's if that tickles yer fancy.

The OP didn't mention this, but if you want to make games you'll want to look into a good game engine like the Unreal Development Kit (UDK). UDK is nice because it's free to use and download, but it only works on windows so be warned. Also, it's not backwards compatible, so always start a project on the most recent version.

Very nice links. I didn't actually know about polycount. Yeah I didn't go into nearly enough detail about the game process because before people learn about that they have a lot more to learn about the basics and they shouldn't be diving into a game making program if they can't model, texture, and animate first. Plus I'm more ignorant on making games than other subjects because I've never been into programming.

*Edit added your quote to my original post.

Yea I agree. They should definitely focus more on getting to know their programs before they get into how to put their projects in an engine. I just wish someone would have told me to look into these things when I was first starting off. My degree kind of just threw the students into UDK and expected some awesome results without a whole lot of knowledge. My biggest regret is not looking into these kinds of things early.

Yeah I've heard a lot of people that have said similar things which is why I consider myself lucky to have started learning this stuff when I was 12. I anticipate that it will make things a lot easier for me when I get to a university level.

  • 12.02.2012 4:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: The Coffee Boy
How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?


I've done traditional frame-by-frame for a mid term before but it's very basic stuff. I'm more of a director/character designer at this point but the current absence of a team means 1-man-band.

If I could find a website with animators looking for projects I'd be all over that. It'd probably be better for me to outsource the animation and just work on the story/direction myself.

  • 12.02.2012 4:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: The Coffee Boy
How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?


I've done traditional frame-by-frame for a mid term before but it's very basic stuff. I'm more of a director/character designer at this point but the current absence of a team means 1-man-band.

If I could find a website with animators looking for projects I'd be all over that. It'd probably be better for me to outsource the animation and just work on the story/direction myself.


Some tips I've learned from my experience:
at least 90% of long term projects fail. In order to succeed you must be fully committed and do a lot of pre production things such as story boards, scripts, ect.
Also you need to have something to show off,like a trailer or something in order to get a team of people to help you. That will show that you're serious about it.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 4:29 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 4:28 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cats

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: The Coffee Boy
How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?


I've done traditional frame-by-frame for a mid term before but it's very basic stuff. I'm more of a director/character designer at this point but the current absence of a team means 1-man-band.

If I could find a website with animators looking for projects I'd be all over that. It'd probably be better for me to outsource the animation and just work on the story/direction myself.


Some tips I've learned from my experience:
at least 90% of long term projects fail. In order to succeed you must be fully committed and do a lot of pre production things such as story boards, scripts, ect.
Also you need to have something to show off,like a trailer or something in order to get a team of people to help you. That will show that you're serious about it.


Currently working on a script and poster and after that the trailer. If I buckle down all of that should be done by the new year.

At that point though, where would said 'team' be coming from? What sort of websites would have free lancing or potential voluntary animators at the ready?

Appreciate the help from you guys by the way. I think I'll be posting in this thread for quite a while.

  • 12.02.2012 4:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: Cats

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: The Coffee Boy
How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?


I've done traditional frame-by-frame for a mid term before but it's very basic stuff. I'm more of a director/character designer at this point but the current absence of a team means 1-man-band.

If I could find a website with animators looking for projects I'd be all over that. It'd probably be better for me to outsource the animation and just work on the story/direction myself.


Some tips I've learned from my experience:
at least 90% of long term projects fail. In order to succeed you must be fully committed and do a lot of pre production things such as story boards, scripts, ect.
Also you need to have something to show off,like a trailer or something in order to get a team of people to help you. That will show that you're serious about it.


Currently working on a script and poster and after that the trailer. If I buckle down all of that should be done by the new year.

At that point though, where would said 'team' be coming from? What sort of websites would have free lancing or potential voluntary animators at the ready?

Appreciate the help from you guys by the way. I think I'll be posting in this thread for quite a while.

Post your stuff on youtube, in the video ask for help in text or voice recording at the end. You can try deviantart if you have a bunch of art laying around on your computer but that site is just a giant popularity contest so its not easy to find people that would help. There are irc channels. although the only one I know that a good amount of people use is #blender Frankly your best bet would be advertising on forums. http://blenderartists.org/forum/forum.php is an active forum full of artists. You would have to ask someone or google around for 2d or maya/max options though.

  • 12.02.2012 4:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: The Coffee Boy
How much experience do you have with traditional 2D animation?


I've done traditional frame-by-frame for a mid term before but it's very basic stuff. I'm more of a director/character designer at this point but the current absence of a team means 1-man-band.

If I could find a website with animators looking for projects I'd be all over that. It'd probably be better for me to outsource the animation and just work on the story/direction myself.


Well I ask, because if you have a basic understanding of 2D animation you can use some of the Tools Maya has to offer, and can understand them a little better. They have this thing called the graph editor, which allows you to manipulate the curves between keyframes that you set (keyframes being the major points of movement.) It also has a dopesheet that allows the movement of the key frames.

I don't know how much you know about 3D animation, so imma just do a simple explanation. The thing that differs between 3D and 2D animation is that in 3D you don't have to make a movement every frame. You can do a simple arm movement with 2-3 keys, rather than say, 7 in 2D. Manipulating the arcs in the graph editor will allow you to change the degree of the arcs you keyed, making clean up work nice and easy. A lot of programs have something similar to maya's graph editor, but I have yet to see a program have something better than maya's graph editor.

  • 12.02.2012 5:24 PM PDT

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So if I'm understanding this correctly, Maya anticipates the movement from one arc to another based on (what I'm assuming) bones? If so that would be similar to tweening from Flash, except obviously on a more sophisticated level. I have brief experience with bones but wire frames are outside of my understanding.

I can wrap my head around the concept but I just haven't delved into it myself. Ultimately, I want to get a stylized look but at the same time one of high fidelity (i.e. absolutely no tweening or shortcuts used to cheat perspective or movement).

I want the animation to be smooth and believable and at the same time caricatured, but not at the expense of its integrity as a respectable animation. Like, I want it to have a smooth anime-ish look where some frames are held or suspended, but running at a smooth enough framerate to where the viewer cannot tell that I am using holds. I don't want the movement to be too exaggerated, especially when foreshortening.

As it is an action flick, I'm sure you can imagine where they would become a problem as far as believably goes. I like to call it 'rubberbanding' in the sense that limbs [especially] stretch further than physically possible.

I'll try and dig up an example.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 5:39 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 5:36 PM PDT
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I just made a quick video to show you guys how animating in blender works. Ill link you once im done uploading.



*EDIT* Sorry guys had to close my youtube account. It seems that someone has gotten into it. Ill re upload it tomorrow if anyone is interested and this thread isnt completely dead.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 7:54 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 6:04 PM PDT
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Yes, this thread has so much yes!

  • 12.02.2012 6:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: AJ7188
Yes, this thread has so much yes!


Yes, OP and Coffee Boy are great.

Well done.

  • 12.02.2012 6:08 PM PDT
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Here ya go. I apologize for my weird voice and how I got mixed up a little. I was whispering close to my mic and tired. lol

*EDIT* Sorry guys had to close my youtube account. It seems that someone has gotten into it. Ill re upload it tomorrow if anyone is interested and this thread isnt completely dead.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 7:54 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 6:12 PM PDT

Halo 3 is where the morons of the universe congregates.

I am thinking of an old story. "Three Billy Goats Gruff" (hint the troll dies at the end)

Posted by: zarrowsmith
If you had an electron microscope, you still couldn't find the -blam!- I don't give.

A) what a wall, saved for future reading

B)

Posted by: Enormous Corgi
If you're a student, you can download almost all Autodesk products for free, after an agreement to not sell the content you make.
http://students.autodesk.com/

If I recall correctly, it doesn't even require an .edu email address for verification. It's a great opportunity to try 3ds Max/Maya out without taking the financial plunge.

These two are a mainstay of the industry, and an absolute must if you hope to pursue a career involving 3D art/design.

Ya, I got inventor from them for free for my engineering classes

  • 12.02.2012 6:16 PM PDT

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March 3, 2553


Posted by: Cats
I just made a quick video to show you guys how animating in blender works. Ill link you once im done uploading.


Ooo!! I'll check that out. I tried Blender years ago but I simply hated the way it worked and gave up. I know more about using these types of programs now so maybe I will give it a go again.

  • 12.02.2012 6:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: cameo_cream

Posted by: Cats
I just made a quick video to show you guys how animating in blender works. Ill link you once im done uploading.


Ooo!! I'll check that out. I tried Blender years ago but I simply hated the way it worked and gave up. I know more about using these types of programs now so maybe I will give it a go again.

posted

  • 12.02.2012 6:32 PM PDT
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TLDR

  • 12.02.2012 6:45 PM PDT


Posted by: CHOCOLOTE TACO
TLDR

Then don't bother posting.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 7:49 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 7:22 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cats
Here ya go. I apologize for my weird voice and how I got mixed up a little. I was whispering close to my mic and tired. lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naQlCJhh_Dc


Pretty neat thanks.

I get the gist of it but I'm still unsure whether to pursue the 2D realm or the 3D realm. 2D would be familiar territory and much simpler for modelling, but production will be more difficult since it's FBF and I'll need to get good with camera tricks. I can't imagine how I'm going to do this crane shot that I want on a 2D plane.

Otherwise, creating the scenes (especially lighting) should be much easier in 3D. But again, it's all about interface and modelling that has me worried at this point.

Ultimately though, I wont get very far without a solid story/theme to work on. I've been jumping back and forth between 3 stories that I want to tell and am having a hard time deciding which to pursue.

  • 12.02.2012 7:37 PM PDT
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I decided to follow Cats example, and uploaded a short video going over some simple animations in Maya. I apologize for the horrible sound quality (your going to want to use some headphones.) I saw Cats closed his youtube account due to someone being a douche, so hopefully the same will not happen to me.

Here's the link

Like I said in the video, if you got any questions just lemme know.

Also, sorry for the late reply. I have a pretty big project coming up and had to work.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 8:28 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 8:28 PM PDT

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I just stumbled upon this and I'm slightly leaning towards Maya and 3D animation in general over 2D now that I see modelling isn't as evil as I thought.

I mean, granted this is just a brief tut and animating/lighting is a whole other thing, but at least I know it wont take me a year to make one character.

[Edited on 12.03.2012 1:35 AM PST]

  • 12.03.2012 1:35 AM PDT
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You make out with midgets.

It's so nerdy in here Stephen Hawking couldn't resist the urge to make a joke...

  • 12.03.2012 2:04 AM PDT