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Subject: Why do socialists ignore basic economics?

Posted by: Lambdadelta
Posted by: harlowOO197
*starts hacking with machete*

good luck hitting me im behind 7 proxies.


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Posted by: Zon The Great

Posted by: Caragnafog dog
profiting from medical care is immoral

Tell that to any doctor who has spent 12 years in extra schooling and has a huge debt from college to pay off.
I don't have to take that from a unicorn

  • 12.02.2012 4:03 PM PDT
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Yup.


Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: FloodPsychologis
The waiting lines are so long in Canada many people die before they were even close to receiving a transplant.
[source needed]


Here

"A recent government study indicated that 4.3 million Canadian adults or 18 percent of those who saw a doctor in 2001 reported they had difficulty seeing a doctor or getting a test or surgery done in a timely fashion. Three million Canadians are unable to find a family physician, according to several private studies, producing a situation all the more serious since it is the family doctor who refers patients to specialists and medical testing."

"Waiting can occur at every step of treatment. A study by the conservative Fraser Institute concluded that patients across Canada experienced average waiting times of 16.5 weeks between receiving a referral from a general practitioner and undergoing treatment in 2001-2002, a rate 77 percent longer than in 1993. The recent Senate report noted that waiting times for M.R.I., C.T. and ultrasound scans grew by 40 percent since 1994."

I'm not saying it's all bad, but the waiting lines ARE a problem. I will redact my original statement because I don't have evidence to support it at the moment, I have to study for exams (I suppose that sounds like an excuse).

  • 12.02.2012 4:04 PM PDT

If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friends.

The Flood Theory of Deterioration: q(p)=(qi)e^(-p/r)

Where q(p) is the quality of the thread as a function of p posts, (qi) is the inital quality of the first post, p is the amount of posts and r is the e-peen of the original poster.


Posted by: Silent Midnight
You obviously didn't read my links.

But I did. How else would I have known the one about the longest wait times was from 2007? Also the main reason for that is lack of doctors not a fault with the system.

  • 12.02.2012 4:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: Silent Midnight

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: Silent Midnight

Posted by: Jagdflieger
I dunno, maybe this crazy thing called real-world examples where it works in other countries?

Because the US is like other countries. Not to mentioned in failed miserably in Europe. Hence the huge issues the EU is having. Pay attention.


Yeah, Germany's sure wallowing...

I like how you ignore Greece and Italy.


Ah the irony it burns.

You ignored Germany, I pointed it out.

Then you accused me of ignoring the rest of your original statement which I did not contest.

  • 12.02.2012 4:05 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.

Posted by: Silent Midnight
You're an idiot. The quality of medical care is everything. Stop trying to make excuses because socialized healthcare degrades the entire system.


If only 25% of a society gets this "Superb" treatment you're prone to drone on about, then it's useless to the other 75%.

Everyone needs to be covered

  • 12.02.2012 4:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: ParagonRenegade
Posted by: Silent Midnight
You're an idiot. The quality of medical care is everything. Stop trying to make excuses because socialized healthcare degrades the entire system.


If only 25% of a society gets this "Superb" treatment you're prone to drone on about, then it's useless to the other 75%.

Everyone needs to be covered


NO! Despite income disparity and obscene prices it has to be every man for himself and his entire family!!!! CAPITALISM LET THE POOR DIE!!!!

  • 12.02.2012 4:08 PM PDT

Why does OP ignore basic rules?

Seriously, though: Socialism is good for the country.

[Edited on 12.02.2012 4:09 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2012 4:09 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.

...

Mods should just lock this before it gets out of control...

  • 12.02.2012 4:09 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: Zon The Great

Posted by: Caragnafog dog
profiting from medical care is immoral

Tell that to any doctor who has spent 12 years in extra schooling and has a huge debt from college to pay off.
I think he means the health insurance companies.

  • 12.02.2012 4:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Lambdadelta
Posted by: harlowOO197
*starts hacking with machete*

good luck hitting me im behind 7 proxies.


☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭


Posted by: Makko Mace
LET THE POOR DIE!!!!

  • 12.02.2012 4:10 PM PDT

The strongest Rivals are also the strongest allies.


Posted by: Zon The Great

Posted by: Caragnafog dog
profiting from medical care is immoral

Tell that to any doctor who has spent 12 years in extra schooling and has a huge debt from college to pay off.
implying its not their own fault for going into debt.

  • 12.02.2012 4:10 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.

Posted by: BOB THE DOCTER
implying its not their own fault for going into debt.


Student loans are almost unavoidable if you're not "Rich", as even the scholarships most people are eligible to buy have interest rates or are partial coverage

  • 12.02.2012 4:12 PM PDT

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3. Mass Effect 2
4. Tie between Halo 3 and CoD4
5. Medal of Honor or Spec Ops: The Line

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Posted by: Silent Midnight

Posted by: john5550

Posted by: Silent Midnight

Posted by: john5550

Posted by: Silent Midnight
I've noticed socialists or people who advocate socialism think that it's good for the country. Why?
*cough*Canada!*cough*

Because a place where basic medical care has a long wait list is a good thing.
And a country where people can die from lack of health insurance or suffer for years because the companies are selfish -blam!-s is preferable? I know about Canada's doctor problem. It also has to do with the fact that they don't have enough doctors. I've been suffering for years because of our incompetent medical system and it ain't fun. But atleast they aren't telling you to -blam!- off if you can't pay them.

People have to get decent insurance and pay for their health like everyone else, hence rationing. The healthcare here is phenomenal, and most likely you'll live if you're treated.
Oh no the Insurance was wonderful, at first. Then things got worse. And now cut to 5 years later, I'm still sick, can't take anymore antibiotics, both because the insurance is a pain and because my stomach is in throbbing pain when I take something for more than a couple weeks, and the CDC refuses to actually get decent sources to update their information on this disease. All the while the insurance company has still been a pain in the ass every step along the way and I may be getting worse. Go and learn more about how incompetent this country is with Lyme Disease. And how wide spread it is. And how many lives have been ruined by it. Considering they nearly took out my gallbladder and I'm pretty much just sitting around waiting for the meds to work I'm sure that people with less help than me are doing much worse. The medical system needs a complete overhaul. And anyone with this disease knows it.

  • 12.02.2012 4:12 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.

Posted by: Silent Midnight
Actually it is. If everyone can get treatment, then you're obviously going to have a shortage of resources, which is why the United States doesn't have that problem. We successfully ration out the medical resources we have, and subsequently get superb medical quality. If the demand is higher than the supply, then a shortage is simply going to happen.


If "Rationing" effectively means "Leaving out the large minority/small majority of our nation's citizens to the wolves" then something is being done wrong

  • 12.02.2012 4:13 PM PDT

Socialism is milder Communism.

  • 12.02.2012 4:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: FloodPsychologis

Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: FloodPsychologis
The waiting lines are so long in Canada many people die before they were even close to receiving a transplant.
[source needed]


Here

"A recent government study indicated that 4.3 million Canadian adults or 18 percent of those who saw a doctor in 2001 reported they had difficulty seeing a doctor or getting a test or surgery done in a timely fashion. Three million Canadians are unable to find a family physician, according to several private studies, producing a situation all the more serious since it is the family doctor who refers patients to specialists and medical testing."

"Waiting can occur at every step of treatment. A study by the conservative Fraser Institute concluded that patients across Canada experienced average waiting times of 16.5 weeks between receiving a referral from a general practitioner and undergoing treatment in 2001-2002, a rate 77 percent longer than in 1993. The recent Senate report noted that waiting times for M.R.I., C.T. and ultrasound scans grew by 40 percent since 1994."

I'm not saying it's all bad, but the waiting lines ARE a problem. I will redact my original statement because I don't have evidence to support it at the moment, I have to study for exams (I suppose that sounds like an excuse).
Still, that's data from ten years ago. Also, they were comparing figures from before the early-mid 90s recession, which saw the provinces heavily slash their health care budgets over the course of the 90s. They had only started increasing funding again by the early 2000s.

Since then, the "wait times" issue has been notably improved. Unless you're living way out in the sticks, you'll typically have your surgery within a couple weeks.

  • 12.02.2012 4:15 PM PDT

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