Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: No one should hate Tim Tebow
  • Subject: No one should hate Tim Tebow
Subject: No one should hate Tim Tebow
  •  | 
  • Honorable Heroic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Your 'beliefs' mean less than dick to me.

Posted by: roman arrow12
Again, you're completely ignoring that you are treating both players as the same kind of quarterback. Tebow is not your traditional pass-only quarterback. So if you use those kinds of statistics (interceptions and completion percentage), then you will come to the conclusion that Tebow is not a good quarterback.

That's a QB's job! If he sucks at the things that a QB is supposed to do, then he sucks. Period.

But what if you look at the leadership factor?
What is that? Quantify it.

What if you look at rushing yards and touchdowns?
Isn't that why I pay running backs?

What if you look at how differently defenses had to prepare and play against Tebow than they did for any other quarterback?
You have to prepare just as rigorously against the likes of Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, and I don't see them dropping 40% completion bombs in half their games.

This is like defending a center in basketball with little strength, zero rebounding ability, zero shot blocking ability, no post moves, and has trouble setting clean screens, because he can hit 18 foot jump shots, can pass like a point guard, and happens to play on a 50 win team. It doesn't mean anything, he's still a terrible center, because he doesn't do what his team actually needs him to do.

[Edited on 12.04.2012 10:33 AM PST]

  • 12.04.2012 10:29 AM PDT


Posted by: roman arrow12
Posted by: RockdaleRooster
I have no problem with him as a person. I don't like him as a football player because he went to Florida and beat my Game[cocks] 4 years in a row. :(

:)

I remember that game... It was a looooooong night...

  • 12.04.2012 10:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Dback139

Posted by: DatDudeBV
You think Ravens fans care that Trent Dilfer sucks? No, They got a superbowl.
That's a horrific argument. Wins don't dictate skill, or contribution to the team. It happened, and Tebow deserves little to no credit, when statistically speaking, he fails to do his job more than half the time.

By your logic, you would say that Macho Harris was a good safety because the Eagles were a playoff team with him? Of course you wouldn't, you're not that dumb. It's the same argument with Tebow; the Broncos defense was very good last season to even give Tebow the chance to win the game. Tebow was not, or the team wouldn't have gone after Manning. Why would the Broncos be interested in overpaying for Peyton, when they already had a "winning" QB in Tebow?


Uh, Because its Peyton. Hes won of the best of all time.

Im not trying to say Tebow is a top 15 or even top 20 QB.

But hes a starter in this league.

Also, How'd his Defense do in that playoff game vs Pitt? Gave up what? Like 23 or 24 points? Yeah, thats a shut down D. Its like the 85 bears all over again.

  • 12.04.2012 10:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
But theyre still gonna make the Playoffs....So how are they in a serious decline?

They were a 5 seed last year. Theyll be a 5 or 6 this year
Key players getting old & injured more often, no longer dominating their division, failing to win against completely terrible teams, etc. They're seeded 6th right now, but the Bengals are right on their ass, and now they won't have Ike Taylor to shut down A.J. Green in week 16.


Yeah, theyre in a decline. But not a serious decline.

Plus, Ike Taylor wouldnt matter aganist AJ anyway. AJ is a top 2 wideout right now. Ike Taylors old ass wasnt shutting him down anyway

  • 12.04.2012 10:32 AM PDT

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Nietzsche

Posted by: DatDudeBV
Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
But theyre still gonna make the Playoffs....So how are they in a serious decline?

They were a 5 seed last year. Theyll be a 5 or 6 this year
Key players getting old & injured more often, no longer dominating their division, failing to win against completely terrible teams, etc. They're seeded 6th right now, but the Bengals are right on their ass, and now they won't have Ike Taylor to shut down A.J. Green in week 16.


Yeah, theyre in a decline. But not a serious decline.

Plus, Ike Taylor wouldnt matter aganist AJ anyway. AJ is a top 2 wideout right now. Ike Taylors old ass wasnt shutting him down anyway
Probably true, but losing their top corner isn't going to help the situation. The only thing they'll have going for them is being at home and probably having Roethlisberger back by then.

[Edited on 12.04.2012 10:34 AM PST]

  • 12.04.2012 10:32 AM PDT

Halo3Planet, the place for all things Halo 3..

Need help finding skulls, make sure to go here.

Posted by: MrR46
That's a QB's job! If he sucks at the things that a QB is supposed to do, then he sucks. Period.

Do you know what the word "paradigm" means? Why do you assume that that's all a quarterback can do is pass?

What is that? Quantify it.
Why does it have to be quantifiable? It's a qualitative factor, which many people (including the best scouts) value just as much as raw numbers. He got more out of that team than anybody else (besides a top-5 QB like Manning) could.

Isn't that why I pay running backs?
Running from the quarterback position =/= running from the RB position. I thought you knew football?

You have to prepare just as rigorously against the likes of Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, and I don't see them dropping 40% completion bombs in half their games.

I wasn't being clear. Because teams have to prepare for Tebow as a runner, they don't have as much time to work on special blitz/coverage packages or just stopping the regular running game as they would against any other team. Because they spend so much time focusing on Tebow, it opens the game up in other ways.

  • 12.04.2012 10:34 AM PDT

Gamertag - Rdog 11

Call me Rdog, not RdOG or RdOG1507. I made that username when I thought it was cool to use alternating capital and lowercase letters...

Man, ESPN loves Christian Ponder. You can't watch a Vikings game without them constantly talking about him. (then again, they don't show many Vikings games on TV)

Screw him and his hot girlfriends...

  • 12.04.2012 10:38 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Heroic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Your 'beliefs' mean less than dick to me.

Posted by: roman arrow12
Do you know what the word "paradigm" means? Why do you assume that that's all a quarterback can do is pass?

Because he's worthless doing anything else.

Why does it have to be quantifiable?
Because otherwise it doesn't exist.

It's a qualitative factor, which many people (including the best scouts) value just as much as raw numbers. He got more out of that team than anybody else (besides a top-5 QB like Manning) could.
You mean that team got more out of him. 'Quarterbacks' who drop 40% completion bombs in half their games aren't the ones who draw production of other people.

Running from the quarterback position =/= running from the RB position. I thought you knew football?
I do. A lot better than you do, it appears.

I wasn't being clear. Because teams have to prepare for Tebow as a runner, they don't have as much time to work on special blitz/coverage packages or just stopping the regular running game as they would against any other team. Because they spend so much time focusing on Tebow, it opens the game up in other ways.
It's adorable that you believe this. Yeah, I'm sure every coach in the league was quivering in their hoodie over those 40% completion bombs.

  • 12.04.2012 10:39 AM PDT

I am a pharmaceutical scientist. I received my Masters degree in Pharmaceutics from the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia in 2010, after working as a Pharmacist for 4 years. I currently work in King of Prussia, PA, and focus on the analytical chemistry of small molecule APIs. My clients include some of the most well known big pharma companies in the world.


Posted by: DatDudeBV
Uh, Because its Peyton. Hes won of the best of all time.

Im not trying to say Tebow is a top 15 or even top 20 QB.

But hes a starter in this league.

Also, How'd his Defense do in that playoff game vs Pitt? Gave up what? Like 23 or 24 points? Yeah, thats a shut down D. Its like the 85 bears all over again.
You're contradicting your own argument then. "Because it's Peyton". There's no logic there. If the team has a winning QB, then why pay substantially more money for another QB who wins and hadn't played in over a year?

And you're going based off the playoff game the Broncos lost, so clearly Tebow wasn't good enough to win. But ohhhh it's the defense fault, and you're citing stats....so it clearly is more about the stats and not just the wins and losses, because you're pointing fingers as to why they lost. Well, my finger is pointed at Tebow's NFL resume. It's pathetic and he will give ZERO TEAMS a better chance to win in the NFL. It's truth. I get paid to broadcast football games and it's not even my day job. So, if I continue to get paid when the company gets dozens and dozens of resumes, I must not be doing a bad job at my football analysis.

  • 12.04.2012 10:40 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

I don't hate anyone.

Except spiders. F**k spiders.

  • 12.04.2012 10:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Dback139

Posted by: DatDudeBV
Uh, Because its Peyton. Hes won of the best of all time.

Im not trying to say Tebow is a top 15 or even top 20 QB.

But hes a starter in this league.

Also, How'd his Defense do in that playoff game vs Pitt? Gave up what? Like 23 or 24 points? Yeah, thats a shut down D. Its like the 85 bears all over again.
You're contradicting your own argument then. "Because it's Peyton". There's no logic there. If the team has a winning QB, then why pay substantially more money for another QB who wins and hadn't played in over a year?

And you're going based off the playoff game the Broncos lost, so clearly Tebow wasn't good enough to win. But ohhhh it's the defense fault, and you're citing stats....so it clearly is more about the stats and not just the wins and losses, because you're pointing fingers as to why they lost. Well, my finger is pointed at Tebow's NFL resume. It's pathetic and he will give ZERO TEAMS a better chance to win in the NFL. It's truth. I get paid to broadcast football games and it's not even my day job. So, if I continue to get paid when the company gets dozens and dozens of resumes, I must not be doing a bad job at my football analysis.


Tebow is a winner in my eyes yes. But they had a chance to get Peyton Manning. One of the best OF ALL TIME. Sure, I think they should have kept Tebow as a Backup but whatever.

No Im not? They won in OT when they played Pittsburgh? The D played terrible and gave up 23 points. Tebows resume speaks for itself last year. Took over a 1-4 team, and went 7-4 with a playoff win..

Well I really didnt ask for your credentials but thats cool. I'm a sports writer myself. Which IS my day job.

We're not going to change each others minds. We have to agree to disagree. But honestly, Im happy that there are people on the flood who love sports as much as me. This debate was refreshing haha.

  • 12.04.2012 10:45 AM PDT

--------------------------------------------------------------------
|..X..X..............Achievement unlocked.........................|
|....X........1000G - 1,000,000 Repeated Post............|
|..X..X...................................................... .........................|
--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://admin.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?postID=13810409

I am glad others on this forum hate Christian Ponder, if he simple does not play stupid, my team would have at least 2 more wins this season. He makes such terrible decisions for being a "smart QB" and has almost no physical skills compared to every other QB.

Also Tebow is a crappy QB, good guy for anything else. Just wish the media would get off his schlong.

  • 12.04.2012 11:12 AM PDT


Posted by: Sir Skill
Just wish the media would get off his schlong.


Even being a Tebow fan, I agree with this.

Hes a backup QB (Right now), No reason for all the media hype.

  • 12.04.2012 11:13 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Ah, I see, you don't actually have to watch Ponder, or the Vikings play. No wonder you think Ponder is good.


I do watch them. I'm not a Vikings fan or anything, but I still watch the games.

Did I say Ponder was good? No, I said he has the POTENTIAL to be good. Which he does.

Hes a top 20 QB.

I don't see it. It's obvious Vikings have a very solid lineup outside of the passing game. After a year and a half, to be going 40 minutes of play between completions, and blowing games in such monumental Favre fashion, I'm not seeing any improvement. He has had good starts a long time ago, but has proven he cannot recover from mistakes, even from game to game, let alone from one play to the next. He just isn't an NFL quarterback. Any decent looking stats he does have are from AP or Harvin working miracles rushing after a short pass. I don't see any reason to waste further time trying to develop him. Admit he's another in a long line of MN front office blunders and move on. I would honestly prefer any QB on any NFL roster to Ponder, he is consistently forcing losses the team doesn't deserve.

  • 12.04.2012 11:29 AM PDT

Xbox LIVE gamertag: Dat3lessNutella
Steam username: TopWargamer
To look up my Halo stats...search for the gamertag TopWargamer.
SAVED THREAD PAGES: 283
One does not simply get rid of TopWargamer so easily.
You know this to be true.
ALL HAIL GABEN

I don't hate on him. There's no reason to hate on him.

  • 12.04.2012 11:29 AM PDT


Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi
I would honestly prefer any QB on any NFL roster to Ponder, he is consistently forcing losses the team doesn't deserve.


Well thats crazy lol.

But who would you want them to draft?

Trade up and get Barkley or Geno Smith?

Trade for Vick? Alex Smith?

  • 12.04.2012 11:31 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi
I would honestly prefer any QB on any NFL roster to Ponder, he is consistently forcing losses the team doesn't deserve.


Well thats crazy lol.

But who would you want them to draft?

Trade up and get Barkley or Geno Smith?

Trade for Vick? Alex Smith?

Well, ponder can't run, he can go an entire half without a completed pass, and lobs balls at defenders when he is pressured. So any QB that can complete at least one pass per half, can scramble, or won't throw cross-body into triple coverage on first down. Any one of those would be an improvement.

  • 12.04.2012 11:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Mzone7
  • user homepage:

While I do dislike Tebow, I would have to say that most of my hate is for his fanboys.

  • 12.04.2012 12:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi
I would honestly prefer any QB on any NFL roster to Ponder, he is consistently forcing losses the team doesn't deserve.


Well thats crazy lol.

But who would you want them to draft?

Trade up and get Barkley or Geno Smith?

Trade for Vick? Alex Smith?

Well, ponder can't run, he can go an entire half without a completed pass, and lobs balls at defenders when he is pressured. So any QB that can complete at least one pass per half, can scramble, or won't throw cross-body into triple coverage on first down. Any one of those would be an improvement.


Thats a little over the top. Ponder is an NFL QB

  • 12.04.2012 12:03 PM PDT

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Nietzsche

Posted by: DatDudeBV
Thats a little over the top. Ponder is an NFL QB
So was Ryan Leaf.

  • 12.04.2012 12:06 PM PDT


Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
Thats a little over the top. Ponder is an NFL QB
So was Ryan Leaf.


And he didnt perform and was gone.

Difference is, Ponder is performing.

  • 12.04.2012 12:07 PM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

Sanchez- Can't throw a ball over 5 yards
Tebow- Misses when he throws any more than 5 yards

  • 12.04.2012 12:09 PM PDT

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Nietzsche

Posted by: DatDudeBV
Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
Thats a little over the top. Ponder is an NFL QB
So was Ryan Leaf.


And he didnt perform and was gone.

Difference is, Ponder is performing.
Yup, he's right up there with Jake Locker and Mark Sanchez. The only top 10 category he's in is counting how many times he's been sacked.

[Edited on 12.04.2012 12:14 PM PST]

  • 12.04.2012 12:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
Posted by: Disambiguation
Posted by: DatDudeBV
Thats a little over the top. Ponder is an NFL QB
So was Ryan Leaf.


And he didnt perform and was gone.

Difference is, Ponder is performing.
Yup, he's right up there with Jake Locker and Mark Sanchez.


Jake locker has been hurt.

I hate mark sanchez, but he wins playoff games....

Ryan leaf was just terrible.

Do you really expect Ponder to be doing amazing in his 2nd season?

Not everyone can be RG3 or Luck...

  • 12.04.2012 12:13 PM PDT

_____ ____(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
--------____.`=====.-.~:_______\___|==============[oo
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)
Have Fai7h

My old Halo account: karsttheninja99

I like Tebow, I just think its dumb that the Jets picked him up and kept Sanchez.

  • 12.04.2012 12:14 PM PDT