Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Just watched all Halo Reach cutscenes
  • Subject: Just watched all Halo Reach cutscenes
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: Just watched all Halo Reach cutscenes
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

I love Reach's cutscenes; Staten did a great job directing them.

  • 12.04.2012 11:54 AM PDT

Two makes there more than speakers.

The only thing worth mentioning about the Halo: Reach Campaign was the beginning of TLNoS, Jorge, and Winter Contingency.

  • 12.04.2012 11:57 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
The scene where you receive Cortana, the scene where Jun takes Halsey away and the scene where Carter is getting shot are all pretty damn awesome. And I don't think you can put more personality in characters that are losing a war and who have lost comrades in the process. They're soldiers, not entertainers.

They get the job done. And that's what mattered to me, at least when I judged each Noble Team character.


The whole thing with Cortana was nothing but a ploy to inject the nostalgia factor into the game by shoehorning in imagery from the first game (Keyes, the Autumn etc). The game had no plot until you were told to take Cortana to the Autumn, yet that plot itself was completely contrived because there is absolutely no explanation on why the Cortana fragment was at this "latchkey" artefact, nor what the artefact even did beyond the hint that it had something to do with Halo - which it couldn't have because Cortana already had the coordinates to Installation 04.

The scene where Jun takes Halsey away just leads into... nothing. He was just written out of the story without any kind of conclusion, all evidence pointing to him being dead since he's not at CASTLE Base when Red Team arrive and doesn't evacuate the planet when the Chief returns in the Ascendant Justice after Halo CE. The whole game could have just not had Jun in it and absolutely no difference would have been made to the 'story'.

You never see Carter get shot. One minute he's absolutely fine as you fly away from Sword Base, the next he's got his guts spilled all over the Pelican's cockpit. Why was this necessary? What difference did it make? He'd still have crashed the Pelican into the Scarab since he didn't have enough firepower, so what was the point in bloodying him up without showing the progression of events?

Noble Team had no personality, the occasional banter they had was cringe-worthy at times - worse even than Mickey's "son of a gun!" ejaculation in ODST and Romeo's remarks. And the only Spartans in Noble Team who even did anything important were Six and Kat, the rest sort of bumble along with no real role because there's no plot until the end of The package - at which point the two most interesting characters have already been killed off and Jun gets written out, while Six gets stuck with the 2 people who could have not been in the game and no difference would have been made.

  • 12.04.2012 11:57 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

english is not my first language ;)

been here since 2006

Sry tl;dr
But remember the glory days of halo reach LOL
I knew that this was coming

  • 12.04.2012 12:01 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
ODST.

So no, just no. Hell, Halo 2 has more than Halo 4 if you ask me.


ODST's character were entertaining, but like Noble Team, Bungie just couldn't get past the archetypes they based those characters around. While characters in Halo 4 like Del Rio are certainly poorly presented, the rest receive a substantial amount of development in the campaign and beyond.

The only characters that see any actual development in Halo 2 were Thel and Cortana...

The Characters in ODST were dynamic. Noble Team was bland, though I didn't think the game was that terrible. Reach picked up steam half-way through, as did Halo 3. But the climax of Reach (IMO) was LNoS. The rest seemed like falling action right up until the last third of The Package. Story-wise, the only missions that mattered to the grand scheme of things were that last 1 and 1/3 missions of the game. The rest was filler (IMO).

Halo 3 seemed to build with each mission to a great climax and conclusion to the trilogy. ODST was more about the characters, and again, only the last mission seemed to have an actual plot, that really 343 hasn't really addressed. Halo 4 improved upon most of this but I just hate the direction they're going. Each mission had a point, except for maybe Shutdown (Which felt like New Alexandria for obvious reasons). Palmer served no purpose in the campaign. The spartan IVs weren't really addressed in the game. I guess they expected Spartan OPS to fill in the gaps.

  • 12.04.2012 12:02 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
Truth, Tartarus, the Arbiter and even Johnson are far more developed than any new Halo 4 character, and that's in Halo 2 alone.


Do tell me how exactly Truth, Tartarus and Johnson are developed... I'm itching to know, because the only time Truth is developed as a character is in Staten's Contact Harvest. The rest of the time he's just the head of this alien conglomerate who wants to kill humanity for a reason that is only explored in the novels, the only explanation the games give us is "humanity are heretics", while the massive plot twist in Contact harvest where Truth justifies his genocidal campaign against humanity through what he learns from Mendicant Bias on the Keyship.

And Tartarus is just Truth's lap-dog he keeps on a leash, he just follows orders and doesn't like Elites. There's no character growth at all in Halo 2 for him, again his character is only explored in Contact Harvest.

Likewise with Johnson, he just sticks around to make the occasional one-liner and play the role of the badass, loyal soldier - the Sergeant Apone clone. Once again, he's mainly developed in Contact Harvest, but starts to get more development as Halo 3 progresses.

You can't call Palmer's constant complaining and nagging "character development". Del Rio's lines were only there to make him look like an ass. And Lasky falls short for not putting Palmer in her place.

As I said, Del Rio is shaped from the same mould of other terrible characters like Noble Team. Lasky starts shouting at Del Rio and deliberately disobeys orders to help John go after the Didact, before being the one to convey the ultimate message of Halo 4's story that John has been struggling with - man and machine, human and soldier, what are they? Are they the same?

The Prologue starts off with the questioning of whether John was successful because he was, at his core, broken. It's continued throughout the game, Cortana asking John to find out which one of them is really the machine, and culminates in Lasky's dialogue at the end where he states that soldiers and humanity (machine and man) are no different.

John removing his armour in the Epilogue symbolises the exposure of his humanity for what's really the first time in the series - and it took a machine who really was more human than him to make him realise who he is. The conclusion has finally been drawn that he wasn't successful because he was broken at his core, but the "tools" which Halsey supplied (calling Cortana a tool itself being ironic) helped bring out the humanity in John and turned it into his greatest strength.

it's beautifully poetic and shows a level of depth and substance the Halo games have been distinctively lacking over the past 11 years.

  • 12.04.2012 12:07 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
The scene where you receive Cortana, the scene where Jun takes Halsey away and the scene where Carter is getting shot are all pretty damn awesome. And I don't think you can put more personality in characters that are losing a war and who have lost comrades in the process. They're soldiers, not entertainers.

They get the job done. And that's what mattered to me, at least when I judged each Noble Team character.


The whole thing with Cortana was nothing but a ploy to inject the nostalgia factor into the game by shoehorning in imagery from the first game (Keyes, the Autumn etc). The game had no plot until you were told to take Cortana to the Autumn, yet that plot itself was completely contrived because there is absolutely no explanation on why the Cortana fragment was at this "latchkey" artefact, nor what the artefact even did beyond the hint that it had something to do with Halo - which it couldn't have because Cortana already had the coordinates to Installation 04.

The scene where Jun takes Halsey away just leads into... nothing. He was just written out of the story without any kind of conclusion, all evidence pointing to him being dead since he's not at CASTLE Base when Red Team arrive and doesn't evacuate the planet when the Chief returns in the Ascendant Justice after Halo CE. The whole game could have just not had Jun in it and absolutely no difference would have been made to the 'story'.

You never see Carter get shot. One minute he's absolutely fine as you fly away from Sword Base, the next he's got his guts spilled all over the Pelican's cockpit. Why was this necessary? What difference did it make? He'd still have crashed the Pelican into the Scarab since he didn't have enough firepower, so what was the point in bloodying him up without showing the progression of events?

Noble Team had no personality, the occasional banter they had was cringe-worthy at times - worse even than Mickey's "son of a gun!" ejaculation in ODST and Romeo's remarks. And the only Spartans in Noble Team who even did anything important were Six and Kat, the rest sort of bumble along with no real role because there's no plot until the end of The package - at which point the two most interesting characters have already been killed off and Jun gets written out, while Six gets stuck with the 2 people who could have not been in the game and no difference would have been made.

I think you're over analysing stuff. Noble Team wasn't meant to be this charismatic and charming team that you were meant to immediately fall in love with.

You can easily fill in the gaps with a little imagination. The game never leaves you blatantly wondering what the hell is going on (although Kat's death could have used that visual effect that MJOLNR armor makes when unshielded), and the few plot holes don't matter, since I believe Bungie was trying to capture that sense of wonder and despair, of things not being solved because of a losing war.

I don't know. The game is presented very damn well if you only judge it by the cutscenes. Your post reminds me of a claim someone else made about Harry Potter not being good because the source of magic is never explained.

  • 12.04.2012 12:08 PM PDT

I gaze upon the stars and see the majesty that is the universe.


EGO mos bulla astrum.

I don't love to hate Reach. I love Reach. I agree the cutscenes become amazing as the game progresses.

  • 12.04.2012 12:09 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

If only they hadnt throw The fall of reach in the trash in the FIRST MISSION! Maybe i would have liked it.

  • 12.04.2012 12:14 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307
The Prologue starts off with the questioning of whether John was successful because he was, at his core, broken. It's continued throughout the game, Cortana asking John to find out which one of them is really the machine, and culminates in Lasky's dialogue at the end where he states that soldiers and humanity (machine and man) are no different.

John removing his armour in the Epilogue symbolises the exposure of his humanity for what's really the first time in the series - and it took a machine who really was more human than him to make him realise who he is. The conclusion has finally been drawn that he wasn't successful because he was broken at his core, but the "tools" which Halsey supplied (calling Cortana a tool itself being ironic) helped bring out the humanity in John and turned it into his greatest strength.

it's beautifully poetic and shows a level of depth and substance the Halo games have been distinctively lacking over the past 11 years.

Yeah. John's story was cool. That's why I said "new Halo 4 characters".

  • 12.04.2012 12:15 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

I loved the Reach campaign, it was great!

  • 12.04.2012 12:16 PM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
Bungie


Nobody likes to hear the B-word.

  • 12.04.2012 12:17 PM PDT

Don't Pm me for groups, Cheers!


Posted by: Cheeseoid

Posted by: JFKES
Halo Reach was a great game.

Halo 4 is a great game.


0/10 try harder

I actually agree with him. They both have a somewhat equal amount of faults, if you ask me.

  • 12.04.2012 12:18 PM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
The game is presented very damn well if you only judge it by the cutscenes.


...

  • 12.04.2012 12:19 PM PDT

Online Gaming's pretty much like a zombie movie. There are a lot of mindless idiots roaming around but you find some survivors on the way.
My YouTube channel
If you're interested in vs threads, here's a sweet little group for you to join


Posted by: ajw34307
The scene where Jun takes Halsey away just leads into... nothing. He was just written out of the story without any kind of conclusion, all evidence pointing to him being dead since he's not at CASTLE Base when Red Team arrive and doesn't evacuate the planet when the Chief returns in the Ascendant Justice after Halo CE. The whole game could have just not had Jun in it and absolutely no difference would have been made to the 'story'.

This,

You never see Carter get shot. One minute he's absolutely fine as you fly away from Sword Base, the next he's got his guts spilled all over the Pelican's cockpit. Why was this necessary? What difference did it make? He'd still have crashed the Pelican into the Scarab since he didn't have enough firepower, so what was the point in bloodying him up without showing the progression of events?
this,

Noble Team had no personality, the occasional banter they had was cringe-worthy at times - worse even than Mickey's "son of a gun!" ejaculation in ODST and Romeo's remarks. And the only Spartans in Noble Team who even did anything important were Six and Kat, the rest sort of bumble along with no real role because there's no plot until the end of The package - at which point the two most interesting characters have already been killed off and Jun gets written out, while Six gets stuck with the 2 people who could have not been in the game and no difference would have been made.
and this.

  • 12.04.2012 12:20 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
I think you're over analysing stuff.


I think you're under analysing these things. A story has to be judged on its literary merits and devices, the story, plot and characters. Halo has usually managed to do this pretty well (otherwise I wouldn't have stuck with this series for 11 years), Halo 2 and ODST in particular.

Noble Team wasn't meant to be this charismatic and charming team that you were meant to immediately fall in love with.

Then how can I care for them as characters? How can any of their deaths carry any weight if they're not meant to be likable? Typically when i don't like a character then I'll want them to die, at which point any possible emotional impact dissipates beyond pure joy at finally being rid of them.

You can easily fill in the gaps with a little imagination.

No, this just promotes poor writing and the kind of bad character development Noble team had. Halo isn't a universe where you headcanon things, it's build on a solid foundation of fixed, linear narrative events.

The game never leaves you blatantly wondering what the hell is going on (although Kat's death could have used that visual effect that MJOLNR armor makes when unshielded), and the few plot holes don't matter, since I believe Bungie was trying to capture that sense of wonder and despair, of things not being solved because of a losing war.

Plot holes always matter. It's bad writing, it ruins the integrity of the story you have sculpted for 10 years when you start saying "actually we're going to do this" despite having years of fiction saying something else happened.

They could have captured the sense of wonder and despair through other means.

I don't know. The game is presented very damn well if you only judge it by the cutscenes.

Yet there's no plot for 8.9 missions, little-to-no character development, a story riddled with plot holes, generally poor voice acting at times and very little in the way of emotional weight.

Your post reminds me of a claim someone else made about Harry Potter not being good because the source of magic is never explained.

Harry Potter is, at times, not good because of how generally uninspired and poorly structured the plots are. The Goblet of Fire in particular.

  • 12.04.2012 12:20 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

Reach I agree is a fantastic standalone, though it felt hollow as a Halo game.
Posted by: Mysten
I've never felt anything but love for Reach, especially the campaign.

It would have made a far better standalone title though, set in its own universe. ODST fared much better because it was a huge departure from the Halo standard in both gameplay and presentation. By donning the MJOLNIR once again, Reach instead feels like a Master Chief story fallen flat.

That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the hell out of it, though.

  • 12.04.2012 12:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag: DHTH
  • user homepage:

I love the Reach campaign, I just don't like the multiplayer.

  • 12.04.2012 12:24 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
I think you're over analysing stuff.


I think you're under analysing these things. A story has to be judged on its literary merits and devices, the story, plot and characters. Halo has usually managed to do this pretty well (otherwise I wouldn't have stuck with this series for 11 years), Halo 2 and ODST in particular.

Noble Team wasn't meant to be this charismatic and charming team that you were meant to immediately fall in love with.

Then how can I care for them as characters? How can any of their deaths carry any weight if they're not meant to be likable? Typically when i don't like a character then I'll want them to die, at which point any possible emotional impact dissipates beyond pure joy at finally being rid of them.

You can easily fill in the gaps with a little imagination.

No, this just promotes poor writing and the kind of bad character development Noble team had. Halo isn't a universe where you headcanon things, it's build on a solid foundation of fixed, linear narrative events.

The game never leaves you blatantly wondering what the hell is going on (although Kat's death could have used that visual effect that MJOLNR armor makes when unshielded), and the few plot holes don't matter, since I believe Bungie was trying to capture that sense of wonder and despair, of things not being solved because of a losing war.

Plot holes always matter. It's bad writing, it ruins the integrity of the story you have sculpted for 10 years when you start saying "actually we're going to do this" despite having years of fiction saying something else happened.

They could have captured the sense of wonder and despair through other means.

I don't know. The game is presented very damn well if you only judge it by the cutscenes.

Yet there's no plot for 8.9 missions, little-to-no character development, a story riddled with plot holes, generally poor voice acting at times and very little in the way of emotional weight.

Your post reminds me of a claim someone else made about Harry Potter not being good because the source of magic is never explained.

Harry Potter is, at times, not good because of how generally uninspired and poorly structured the plots are. The Goblet of Fire in particular.

... maybe I like Reach for the wrong reasons... but I still like it...

Come on. What would you have done if you had to make an entire campaign based off a couple lines of text you wrote 10 years ago?

  • 12.04.2012 12:25 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
Well first i wouldn't trow the text i had writen in the trash and wrote a completely new story that ignores most of th details writen by me 10 years ago.

  • 12.04.2012 12:31 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
... maybe I like Reach for the wrong reasons... but I still like it...


Don't worry, I get it, I won't deny that it does have its merits but I personally do not think that they lie with the story or characters. New Alexandria is one of the best missions in the series IMO.

Come on. What would you have done if you had to make an entire campaign based off a couple lines of text you wrote 10 years ago?

Actually, I would. I'd have liked to see Bungie look at what they did right with ODST's narrative style (which was pretty much everything) and apply that to Reach where you'd play out the events of the novel.

You'd have 'flashback' missions as each Spartan-II from Red/Blue Team (Kelly, Fred, John etc) as they take part in their various missions. Starting out with the battle at Sigma Octanus IV where you get the coordinates for Installation 04, then going to Reach and taking part in events like the infiltration of the Circumference - seeing iconic scenes from the novel like James' death and the 30+ Spartans in freefall from the Pelican.

It would have also been a perfect example to explore more of the backstory of the Spartan-IIs in the game too, locating data files (like the Terminals/Audio Logs in the other games) which illustrate the childhood training of the Spartan-IIs leading up to the ultimate sacrifice many of them make in the end.

  • 12.04.2012 12:32 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
... maybe I like Reach for the wrong reasons... but I still like it...


Don't worry, I get it, I won't deny that it does have its merits but I personally do not think that they lie with the story or characters. New Alexandria is one of the best missions in the series IMO.

Come on. What would you have done if you had to make an entire campaign based off a couple lines of text you wrote 10 years ago?

Actually, I would. I'd have liked to see Bungie look at what they did right with ODST's narrative style (which was pretty much everything) and apply that to Reach where you'd play out the events of the novel.

You'd have 'flashback' missions as each Spartan-II from Red/Blue Team (Kelly, Fred, John etc) as they take part in their various missions. Starting out with the battle at Sigma Octanus IV where you get the coordinates for Installation 04, then going to Reach and taking part in events like the infiltration of the Circumference - seeing iconic scenes from the novel like James' death and the 30+ Spartans in freefall from the Pelican.

It would have also been a perfect example to explore more of the backstory of the Spartan-IIs in the game too, locating data files (like the Terminals/Audio Logs in the other games) which illustrate the childhood training of the Spartan-IIs leading up to the ultimate sacrifice many of them make in the end.

I think the guys at 343 would like to have someone like you. In fact, I think I'd like the company a little better if someone like you was in charge of writting part of the story.

  • 12.04.2012 12:38 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.



Posted by: CharlesBrown33
Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
... maybe I like Reach for the wrong reasons... but I still like it...


Don't worry, I get it, I won't deny that it does have its merits but I personally do not think that they lie with the story or characters. New Alexandria is one of the best missions in the series IMO.

Come on. What would you have done if you had to make an entire campaign based off a couple lines of text you wrote 10 years ago?

Actually, I would. I'd have liked to see Bungie look at what they did right with ODST's narrative style (which was pretty much everything) and apply that to Reach where you'd play out the events of the novel.

You'd have 'flashback' missions as each Spartan-II from Red/Blue Team (Kelly, Fred, John etc) as they take part in their various missions. Starting out with the battle at Sigma Octanus IV where you get the coordinates for Installation 04, then going to Reach and taking part in events like the infiltration of the Circumference - seeing iconic scenes from the novel like James' death and the 30+ Spartans in freefall from the Pelican.

It would have also been a perfect example to explore more of the backstory of the Spartan-IIs in the game too, locating data files (like the Terminals/Audio Logs in the other games) which illustrate the childhood training of the Spartan-IIs leading up to the ultimate sacrifice many of them make in the end.

I think the guys at 343 would like to have someone like you. In fact, I think I'd like the company a little better if someone like you was in charge of writting part of the story.
Uhhhh, why? He just said what happened in the novel (the same novel the bungie completely ignored) what does this have to do with 343?
Edit: This is in no way meant to offend awj, i consider you one of the best and most knowlegble menbers of the community and have deep respect for you. (well that sounded like but kissing but anyway, i mean it)

[Edited on 12.04.2012 12:52 PM PST]

  • 12.04.2012 12:41 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CharlesBrown33
Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: CharlesBrown33
... maybe I like Reach for the wrong reasons... but I still like it...


Don't worry, I get it, I won't deny that it does have its merits but I personally do not think that they lie with the story or characters. New Alexandria is one of the best missions in the series IMO.

Come on. What would you have done if you had to make an entire campaign based off a couple lines of text you wrote 10 years ago?

Actually, I would. I'd have liked to see Bungie look at what they did right with ODST's narrative style (which was pretty much everything) and apply that to Reach where you'd play out the events of the novel.

You'd have 'flashback' missions as each Spartan-II from Red/Blue Team (Kelly, Fred, John etc) as they take part in their various missions. Starting out with the battle at Sigma Octanus IV where you get the coordinates for Installation 04, then going to Reach and taking part in events like the infiltration of the Circumference - seeing iconic scenes from the novel like James' death and the 30+ Spartans in freefall from the Pelican.

It would have also been a perfect example to explore more of the backstory of the Spartan-IIs in the game too, locating data files (like the Terminals/Audio Logs in the other games) which illustrate the childhood training of the Spartan-IIs leading up to the ultimate sacrifice many of them make in the end.

I think the guys at 343 would like to have someone like you. In fact, I think I'd like the company a little better if someone like you was in charge of writting part of the story.


A much appreciated compliment. :P

  • 12.04.2012 12:42 PM PDT

If I ever see anyone post in a thread "That's your opinion", I immediately lose all respect for them.

Also, if you're discussing a topic with me and you resort to name calling, pull "life checks", or just call anything you don't agree with retarded without giving legitimate reasons, don't expect me to take you serious in anyway what so ever.

Cutscenes are done and directed well sure, but it still breaks canon and no amount of film expertise is going to change that. Some may be able to look past that, but I can not.

  • 12.04.2012 12:44 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3