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  • Subject: Could America successfully invade/siege China?
Subject: Could America successfully invade/siege China?

Good old hypocrisy, what humanity does best.

No, invasion of a nuclear power is suicidal.

All other -blam!- means nothing to a country with ICBM's.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:02 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:00 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: Alpha Prime
No, invasion of a nuclear power is suicidal.


The Chinese are on the "no first use" policy. They pinky promised us they wouldn't use their nukes! Haha.

  • 12.05.2012 5:02 PM PDT

China? It would be near impossible to contain a population of well over 1.3 billion. They would ALL riot. We simply do not have the manpower. They have over 100 cities with at least 1 million people in them. Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy. You forget that they are one of the biggest farming nations in the world, and it would in fact cripple the United States more than China. China has nukes as well, and hundreds of them. This would never happen. The economy wouldn't allow it.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:04 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:03 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
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Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.

  • 12.05.2012 5:04 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: mojeda101
China? It would be near impossible to contain a population of well over 1.3 billion. They would ALL riot. We simply do not have the manpower. They have over 100 cities with at least 1 million people in them. Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy. You forget that they are one of the biggest farming nations in the world, and it would in fact cripple the United States more than China. China has nukes as well, and hundreds of them. This would never happen. The economy wouldn't allow it.


China is the polar opposite of a self-sustaining nation. They rely on imports just as much as exports. The United States, on the other hand, has the potential to be the most self-reliant nation on the planet. We just haven't used those resources yet.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:05 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:04 PM PDT

Door Kickers Inc.


Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.

  • 12.05.2012 5:05 PM PDT

I r guy who gun to teach u lesson

No Nukes and Allies for both sides: Yes, they could wipe out all organized military. If they had to make sure not to harm citizens and to capture the land in the name of MURRIC'...no. China has too many people.

The powers that would be fighting in this war have nukes though, so it would probably mean the end of the world once one nuke gets launched.


So basically:
Yes to torching the place and killing all the Chinese (awful...)

No to controlling it.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:07 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:06 PM PDT

Good old hypocrisy, what humanity does best.

Posted by: Sgt Mag1
Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Maybe before but not now. It's economy is moving away from a purely export driven one to one based on the domestic consumer. Hence why the Chinese have stopped buying huge quantities of US treasuries in order to manipulate the exchange rate so their exports are favoured in the world market.

  • 12.05.2012 5:07 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: Alpha Prime
Posted by: Sgt Mag1
Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Maybe before but not now. It's economy is moving away from a purely export driven one to one based on the domestic consumer. Hence why the Chinese have stopped buying huge quantities of US treasuries in order to manipulate the exchange rate so their exports are favoured in the world market.


The average salary in China is 4,000 dollars, compared to the American salary of over 48k smackers a year. The majority of Chinese items are luxury based, relying on a consumer that has money to spend on such products. Obviously, a person with 4k dollars doesn't have the money to actually spend on non essential items.

Moreover, even if what you're saying is true, which it isn't, China imports 50% of its oil. It wouldn't sustain such high production rates for very long without the energy source to support manufacturing.

  • 12.05.2012 5:11 PM PDT


Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Go on, elaborate. Check the numbers yourself. They're past their incredible reliance on oversea trade. It's much broader than that now. There is a reason the Chinese have been buying smaller portions from our side. One day, we will have to pay them the 1 trillion dollars back.

Concerning oil MilitaryTheorist, Isn't Iran still being sanctioned for theirs? They could transfer them over air/land with talks with the nations in between.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:13 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:11 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: Alpha Prime
Posted by: Sgt Mag1
Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Maybe before but not now. It's economy is moving away from a purely export driven one to one based on the domestic consumer. Hence why the Chinese have stopped buying huge quantities of US treasuries in order to manipulate the exchange rate so their exports are favoured in the world market.


China is having a crisis right now because they have almost no domestic resources to call upon. Most economists are in complete agreement that China's economic "boom" was an entirely temporary one.

They spent a bunch of time and manpower boosting their economy through building entire cities with no one to live in them. I'm not making it up, go ahead and do some research on Chinese ghost cities.

Here, I'll link it for you.

In other words, they're the kid at the gym who claims he can bench 300 pounds but doesn't even bring the bar down to his chest.

  • 12.05.2012 5:12 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Go on, elaborate. Check the numbers yourself. They're past their incredible reliance on oversea trade. It's much broader than that now. There is a reason the Chinese have been buying smaller portions from our side. One day, we will have to pay them the 1 trillion dollars back.


Read my post above, and the post of the guy above me.

  • 12.05.2012 5:13 PM PDT

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"

Posted by: Viper Skills
To all those saying no...

China JUST now landed their first aircraft on their first aircraft carrier. The United States has eleven aircraft carriers, all of which are FAR more advanced than China's hand-me-down from Russia.

The Chinese are only now developing their first fifth generation fighter (J-20) while the United States already has over 200 of them. This is not even counting aircraft such as the F-18.

As with World War II, the fight in the Pacific would be an engagement between navies and, like World War II, he who controls the carriers controls the war. China would not be able to go on the offensive and their navy destroyed in weeks.

From there it doesn't matter how many men they have (which is their only advantage). They would be forced to blending in with the population to avoid bombings (like Vietnam).

In essence, the Chinese are in no way prepared to go toe-to-toe with Washington and they know it. Have they had a military buildup? Yes. Is it on par with the American military? Not even close. Not remotely. Even Chinese economic momentum is beginning to slow.

America needs an enemy of sorts. It seems people WANT to be scared of the big bad wolf out there who is going to invade and instill dirty, nasty Communism. The Red Scare after World War II and now this "China will rule all!" because they have had brief economic fortunes which, by the way, were compared to an America in the middle of a recession.

Who's GDP still outnumbers all other major global economies? America's. Who has the biggest military? America. Who has seen the quickest recovery from the recession? Brazil, Germany, and 'Murcah.

These are simple facts. It all sounds overly-patriotic but it's true anyway. There is a reason no country has fought us toe-to-toe in over 70 years.

It's not liable to be that way forever but it's certainly that way now.


You have no understanding of logistics.

How would we keep supplied?

The chinese people would fight for every inch, no matter how many aircraft we had.

  • 12.05.2012 5:13 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: Raptorx7
The chinese people would fight for every inch, no matter how many aircraft we had.


Again, winning a war and controlling their population are two different things. If the objective is to shatter their nation's military and cripple it's economy... yes, we could do that.

If the objective is to invade and to control the population, like I said in another post, it depends entirely on the popular opinion of the public.

  • 12.05.2012 5:15 PM PDT

I am the Troll King.

Yes as long as no foreign powers interrupt.

  • 12.05.2012 5:15 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

Assuming it's allies don't intervene (which they would), we could beat them, but holding them would be a logistical nightmare, and we would suffer massive casualties.

  • 12.05.2012 5:15 PM PDT

"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened."
- Dr. Seuss


Posted by: Darthbill99
Assuming it's allies don't intervene (which they would), we could beat them, but holding them would be a logistical nightmare, and we would suffer massive casualties.

  • 12.05.2012 5:18 PM PDT
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: mojeda101
Doing a blockade would slow them down, but wouldn't stop their economy.


It would stop their economy completely.
Go on, elaborate. Check the numbers yourself. They're past their incredible reliance on oversea trade. It's much broader than that now. There is a reason the Chinese have been buying smaller portions from our side. One day, we will have to pay them the 1 trillion dollars back.

Concerning oil MilitaryTheorist, Isn't Iran still being sanctioned for theirs? They could transfer them over air/land with talks with the nations in between.


Yes, but that still doesn't make up for the mass amount of oil that they would be losing. Moreover to that point, we could easily cripple the oil producing facilities of Iran if we wanted to. Along with many oil producing facilities of China.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:20 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:19 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link =BWU_072310
Made it into the update!

THE TWO "DON'T"S OF MILITARY STRATEGY

1: Never fight the Russian Winter
(ex: Napoleon, Hitler)

2: Never fight a land war in Asia
(ex: Vietnam War)

  • 12.05.2012 5:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

Posted by: Viper Skills
If the objective is to invade and to control the population, like I said in another post, it depends entirely on the popular opinion of the public.
Lol, nobody takes the "liberator" talk seriously, the public opinion could only go one way.

  • 12.05.2012 5:22 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: monitor 16807
Posted by: Viper Skills
If the objective is to invade and to control the population, like I said in another post, it depends entirely on the popular opinion of the public.
Lol, nobody takes the "liberator" talk seriously, the public opinion could only go one way.


I think you'd be surprised. Once China's population realizes their government can't really take care of them I think you might see a different dynamic. (We've already seen it)

That's assuming a lot of things happen in the US' favor should a war break out, but yeah.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:24 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:24 PM PDT

Good old hypocrisy, what humanity does best.

Posted by: Viper Skills
China is having a crisis right now because they have almost no domestic resources to call upon. Most economists are in complete agreement that China's economic "boom" was an entirely temporary one.
Please name these most economists. Most economists I've read say that China may possibly slow down from 10% GDP growth per annum to something like 6-7% which is significantly higher than America could hope for. Also please clarify your statement a bit more because I hope you aren't implying that China's economy will massively contract soon. China can produce almost just as much as America can.

They spent a bunch of time and manpower boosting their economy through building entire cities with no one to live in them. I'm not making it up, go ahead and do some research on Chinese ghost cities.

Here, I'll link it for you.
Cities which people have then subsequently moved to live in. While this has not happened for all their cities they are still getting massive movement from the countryside into the cities. This is not all empty growth. They probably in their cities have a much better infrastructure than most of the US.

In other words, they're the kid at the gym who claims he can bench 300 pounds but doesn't even bring the bar down to his chest.China is set to and will easily pass the US in GDP terms soon. It's a natural consequence of how grow works based on the Solow growth model. They are not some rickety structure that will collapse with one kick.

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist
Moreover, even if what you're saying is true, which it isn't,
The communist party is trying to move away from an export based economy and they are purchasing significantly less US treasuries and not manipulating the exchange rate. What I said was perfectly true.

China imports 50% of its oil. It wouldn't sustain such high production rates for very long without the energy source to support manufacturing.
You do know that China runs off coal far more than oil? Plus it imports a large amount of it's oil through Russia. You are also ignoring the large and massively detrimental effects that China's removal from the world market would have. But anyway it production moves to a war footing China has more than enough resources to function.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:28 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:26 PM PDT
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F0ck the police

Alone? No

  • 12.05.2012 5:28 PM PDT

Good old hypocrisy, what humanity does best.


Posted by: MartinOfRedwall
THE TWO "DON'T"S OF MILITARY STRATEGY
2: Never fight a land war in Asia
(ex: Vietnam War)
That's why the British and the other European powers never won the Opium wars or the British never conquered and held India.

  • 12.05.2012 5:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: Alpha Prime
Posted by: Viper Skills
China is having a crisis right now because they have almost no domestic resources to call upon. Most economists are in complete agreement that China's economic "boom" was an entirely temporary one.
Please name these most economists. Most economists I've read say that China may possibly slow down from 10% GDP growth per annum to something like 6-7% which is significantly higher than America could hope for. Also please clarify your statement a bit more because I hope you aren't implying that China's economy will massively contract soon. China can produce almost just as much as America can.

They spent a bunch of time and manpower boosting their economy through building entire cities with no one to live in them. I'm not making it up, go ahead and do some research on Chinese ghost cities.

Here, I'll link it for you.
Cities which people have then subsequently moved to live in. While this has not happened for all their cities they are still getting massive movement from the countryside into the cities. This is not all empty growth. They probably in their cities have a much better infrastructure than most of the US.

In other words, they're the kid at the gym who claims he can bench 300 pounds but doesn't even bring the bar down to his chest.China is set to and will easily pass the US in GDP terms soon. It's a natural consequence of how grow works based on the Solow growth model. They are not some rickety structure that will collapse with one kick.


All that's fine and dandy, but without oil, all their production grinds to a halt. And so does their war effort.

[Edited on 12.05.2012 5:30 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2012 5:29 PM PDT