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Subject: Progress

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...

The other day I made a poll and topic thread of "Can you define progress" and that was without the verb or noun definition.

I found it interesting that on this particular website, the majority of the Flood answered with the elementary definition of "I set a goal, I complete said goal= progress"
The poll leaned in favor of- Yes, progress can be defined. I did assume that it would lean that way due to the nature of scientific domination in video game culture. I was not surprised to find explanations that resorted to claim humans as eventual Gods, or technocracy bound systems of management.

However, I released the same topic on two other forum sites. One being a politics forum and the other a biological forum.
They leaned on the side of NO. Progress can't be defined because of the subjective translation. I myself sided with that explanation. They argue that due to the finite supply of technology and the infinite demand of society, progress, it self cannot be a sustained formulation. Thus always ending on a negative notion in which a fall of empire of death of a cell comes with the passing through time and space.

Just thought it all to be interesting with such contrast between forums.
I'd appreciate no "cool story bro" since I know most of you are inclined to said degeneration. I'd also like to further the argument for progress to be defined, since there are two sides of this coin

[Edited on 12.06.2012 1:33 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 1:28 PM PDT

Blind luck always prevails.

Progress is a green bar that sits at 99% full for 20 minutes only to be replaced by another bar when it is complete. Which forum's description of progress does that match?

  • 12.06.2012 1:34 PM PDT

I like shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear.

If I set a goal and complete it, how have I not made progress?

  • 12.06.2012 1:35 PM PDT

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...


Posted by: SonOfTheShire
If I set a goal and complete it, how have I not made progress?
That is the typical definition.
But your arbitrary goal has no relevance to the universe besides your own individual satisfaction of hunter gathering instincts. Your ancestors thought they made your definition of progress when they went on the hunt and came back with the kill. Yet, did they not have to hunt again and kill again? Seems like no progress is made there

But technology is only resource relocation, derived from planetary materials. There is a finite resource, but an infinite demand by the society technology helped develop. So if we are only moving atoms and energy, but never creating our own matter... How can progress be defined?

Of course progress in society's spectrum is the compounding/accumulation of generations with their ideas. Yet, if any one of us were born without our predecessors knowledge/proper education- what progress would continue and carry on? Im saying that the hardware we use as individual think tanks is outdated and dependent on software to advance our compounding/accumulations.

And until we find a solution to turn the negative equation into a positive... The way we have lived the past 200+ years is not sustainable and therefor not progress. If you really want to plot progress on a plus and minus line- unfortunately- its always on the negative side of said line, because we cannot substitute our reliance on matter that originated in our solar system, in which we take carelessly... Kinda like an inheritance and the one who got it is spending it all without making any of their own wealth.

  • 12.06.2012 1:39 PM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra

Progress is finishing a task that takes you to higher aspirations.

  • 12.06.2012 1:43 PM PDT

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...


Posted by: Bungie Sam
Progress is finishing a task that takes you to higher aspirations.
Yeah, I get it. I understand this definition of progress. What I don't understand is why is this the only explanation I receive from this forum. Not to sound condescending, but I believe I have offered reason why your individual task completion is null, since your organism will perish one day by the means of decay through space and time. Also, do you really think that there is infinite opportunity to always be gaining higher aspirations? Yet history and science have shown us that there is rise and fall scenarios.

If I take your definition for face value, then my next question would be... Do you see our humanity in a race against time to solidify our species command upon the universe? There needs to be some ground-breaking evolution using what resources we have left today or in the future to make sure humans do not perish into dust, making progress a fantasy. I am also not saying we are low or have an abundance of resources at this current time. I don't know how anyone can calculate what we actually have left. plus the possibility that new sources of energy do come along

[Edited on 12.06.2012 1:54 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 1:51 PM PDT

I like shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear.

Posted by: Chuck berry22
Posted by: SonOfTheShire
If I set a goal and complete it, how have I not made progress?
That is the typical definition.
But your arbitrary goal has no relevance to the universe-

Then screw the universe.

We don't need to affect it in any significant way to make progress. That's not the goal. When our ancestors gathered food, it was so they wouldn't starve. They didn't, and here we are.

Their progress ensured the survival of our species. Even if humanity had become extinct, our ancestors would have still made progress, whether it mattered in the long run or not. Because progress does not matter in the long run because the long run is what is subjective. There is always a bigger picture.

Progress should not be defined by importance or "relevance".

[Edited on 12.06.2012 2:09 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 2:00 PM PDT

Currently studying Computer Science & Software engineering. Hope to work on mobile devices of the future! When a certain game's credits roll, look out for my name! ;)

You will -blam!- bricks when you see what game it is! =)

Progress: Base 1 -> Base 2 -> Base 3.

/thread.

  • 12.06.2012 2:01 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Progress can't be defined......?

That makes no sense.......

I just raised my pre-calc grade up from a B to an A-. How is that not progress? If humanity puts men on mars for the first time, how is that not progress? We are progressing towards space civilization and to a greater understanding of the universe.

  • 12.06.2012 2:04 PM PDT

Many people say humanity is progressing, nobody ever said we are progressing the right way.

/wisesaying

  • 12.06.2012 2:06 PM PDT

Posted by: TrussingDoor
Posted by: DAS B00T x2
You know what's even worse?

When the boy you like has a girlfriend.
#gheyworldproblems

Op, you're trying too hard to be deep and intellectual.

  • 12.06.2012 2:07 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: DAS B00T x2
Op, you're trying too hard to be deep and intellectual.

Yeah OP, you're overthinking this to the extreme. Progress is just simply a word that we use to describe a better of state of being than before. Why are you trying in vain to prove that there is no such thing as progress? IT'S JUST A FREAKING CONCEPT. It really doesn't matter that much.

  • 12.06.2012 2:09 PM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra

Posted by: Chuck berry22
I have offered reason why your individual task completion is null, since your organism will perish one day by the means of decay through space and time. Also, do you really think that there is infinite opportunity to always be gaining higher aspirations?
Progress can be relative to an individual or multiple people. It can also be relative to a certain amount of time.

Research is made over the decades and the original creators die.
Their progress does not end when they perish by the means of decay as the next generation continues the work they could not finish.

  • 12.06.2012 2:10 PM PDT


Posted by: SonOfTheShire
If I set a goal and complete it, how have I not made progress?


However, if you fail, what is to say that the learning from the mistakes you made didnt create another sense of progress?

  • 12.06.2012 2:22 PM PDT

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...

Many people say humanity is progressing, nobody ever said we are progressing the right way.

I like this. Good point. The sense that there could be Bad progress and Good progress. If everyone is keen to everything we do is some form of progress, and that there is a universally defined sense of the word progress. My next question would be simple. Will all this be good or bad progress? I once again can care little for the individual completing one task. Im talking about the species plethora of interactions in the universe to collectively form our collective progress. Could it be too radical to suggest that there could be a cap and collapse, or that all of our progress drives us down an incorrect path that could not be reversed even when mistakes are to be learned promptly?

For instance, what if the Atom bomb did destroy our atmosphere. Scientists had a degree of opinion that suggested that it was entirely plausible... But in the name of progress (and fear of enemies obtaining WMD before us) we took it to the test. Or maybe CERN forming their own Blackhole
I can't see how something similar in nature, but with more drastic consequences could not come along in the future.
Then again I suppose our life is nothing but a gamble.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 11:39 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 11:33 PM PDT

"Except we, we're the zebras. All fenced in...and ready for the slaughter!"

| Eighth Column |

This might not make sense as it's 2:49am EST.

The connotation of progress is a positive one. I presume this is the case because the diction of its definition is positive. "Forward or onward movement toward a destination". Forward or onward movement is a relative idea. My forward is different then yours which is different then any other human. This, however, does not mean that we cannot conclude something general about progress.

Due to the relative nature of 'forward', we perceive it on a spectrum that spans from positive to negative infinity. Perception of 'positive forward' agrees with our relitive understanding of positive outcomes and we name the concept forward. Perception of 'negative forward' agrees with our relative understanding of negative outcomes and we name it backwards. Forwards and backwards are two sides of the same coin.

Embedded in this evaluation of progress is a constant that all 'forwards' and 'onwards' share. That constant is motion. Progress, by this (il)logic, is any motion in the physical, mental and metaphysical realms.

Great thread. It's always fun to think about stuff like this, even if I go on an illogical tangent.

  • 12.07.2012 12:05 AM PDT


Posted by: DAS B00T x2
Op, you're trying too hard to be deep and intellectual.

  • 12.07.2012 12:11 AM PDT

Bones of my enemies.


Posted by: Grateful Zebra
This might not make sense as it's 2:49am EST.

Made sense.

  • 12.07.2012 12:14 AM PDT

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...

"Forward or onward movement toward a destination".What is your destination?

"Due to the relative nature of 'forward', we perceive it on a spectrum that spans from positive to negative infinity. Perception of 'positive forward' agrees with our relative understanding of positive outcomes and we name the concept forward. Perception of 'negative forward' agrees with our relative understanding of negative outcomes and we name it backwards. Forwards and backwards are two sides of the same coin." Gotcha, yes... Every motion is essentially forward or backwards which can be progress towards one end or the other. Still, if progress is the motion of all entities that live biologically, does this mean society is at large a randomly generated collision occurrence with concurrence to our random existence as the humans we currently use as physical shells of operation guided by a spontaneous nervous system and self motivated will power of the mind (billions of tangled webbed collisions forming thought)? That makes me an anomaly and progress my product.

[Edited on 12.07.2012 12:20 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2012 12:19 AM PDT

The Universe demands to be noticed, to be seen, and dutifully noted.

What use all those incredible firework dimensions if no eye fixes and reflects, no brain takes notes, no heart moves with passion at the display?

NASA answers the silent cry of the Cosmos for recognition.

NASA is the witness and we fellow witnesses to the endless deeps.


Posted by: Chuck berry22
They argue that due to the finite supply of technology and the infinite demand of society, progress, it self cannot be a sustained formulation. Thus always ending on a negative notion in which a fall of empire of death of a cell comes with the passing through time and space.



Progress does not have to be defined over an indefinite time scale. It can be measured between certain time intervals.

Entropy is unavoidable - it ensures that all systems in a closed universe will run down eventually, but the notion of progress does not necessarily have to be void because of this.

  • 12.07.2012 12:24 AM PDT

I am a "True" gamer advocate.
Halo 2
People are crazy, and times are strange...


Posted by: Muffin enforcer

Posted by: Chuck berry22
They argue that due to the finite supply of technology and the infinite demand of society, progress, it self cannot be a sustained formulation. Thus always ending on a negative notion in which a fall of empire of death of a cell comes with the passing through time and space.



Progress does not have to be defined over an indefinite time scale. It can be measured between certain time intervals.

Entropy is unavoidable - it ensures that all systems in a closed universe will run down eventually, but the notion of progress does not necessarily have to be void because of this.
Is it selfish to not want progress to be a silly little thing we think happens?

[Edited on 12.07.2012 12:27 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2012 12:27 AM PDT

GAAAAYYY


Posted by: DAS B00T x2
Op, you're trying too hard to be deep and intellectual.

  • 12.07.2012 12:44 AM PDT

A competitive players main goal is to win.
A casuals main goal is to have fun regardless of whether that results in a win or loss.
It has nothing to do with individual skill or knowledge, it has to do with the reason you play.

I think you're overthinking.

  • 12.07.2012 12:48 AM PDT

GAAAAYYY


Posted by: Metalignus
I think you're overthinking.

  • 12.07.2012 12:49 AM PDT

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

If you're interested in Halo's music, check this out.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Speaking of chuckles, let's all lol at IonicPaul, who makes friends with bugs to make up for his lack of human contact.

Posted by: Prototype117

Posted by: Metalignus
I think you're overthinking.

Exactly.

OP, you're saying that something subjective can't be defined. Of course it can't. It's subjective. So, when you ask for a definition of progress, people will give you the definition that they can give: The objective definition.

  • 12.07.2012 12:53 AM PDT

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