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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?
  • Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: MadMax888

Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: MadMax888
Economics aside, I think everyone deserves to get proper care. When they get hurt/sick, their first thought shouldn't be "can I afford this?"

Well that's too bad. In a perfect world, everyone can have quality healthcare, but it doesn't work like that. Frankly, people need to handle their insurance situation.
But why CAN'T it work like that? Plenty of countries handle it successfully.


Insurance, like education, is not exactly by any means affordable to the greater population.

  • 12.06.2012 4:36 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Posted by: DatDudeBV
clowns

LOL

10/10

  • 12.06.2012 4:37 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 4:38 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 4:37 PM PDT

Please do not send me group invites.


Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: MadMax888

Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: MadMax888
Economics aside, I think everyone deserves to get proper care. When they get hurt/sick, their first thought shouldn't be "can I afford this?"

Well that's too bad. In a perfect world, everyone can have quality healthcare, but it doesn't work like that. Frankly, people need to handle their insurance situation.
But why CAN'T it work like that? Plenty of countries handle it successfully.

Do you really think we're like other countries?
How are we different? Why is it possible for them to run a socialized healthcare program, but not us?

  • 12.06.2012 4:37 PM PDT
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Okay, I'll bite.

50.7 million Americans don't have health insurance.

Estimated US 2011 population: 311,591,917

Percentage of population without health insurance: 16%

In the world's largest economy, 16% of its population does not have access to affordable health care. In countries with socialized health care, all you have to do is sign up for a health card, which takes about an hour. And that's it, you have full access to primary care anywhere in your province/country.

  • 12.06.2012 4:38 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Sgt Drifter

Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: MadMax888
Economics aside, I think everyone deserves to get proper care. When they get hurt/sick, their first thought shouldn't be "can I afford this?"


Why should I have to pay for someone elses medical bills?

If you cant afford something, you shouldnt get it


So you would rather see people die than to see tax dollars spent on them?

And this is the problem, folks.


Yes I would.

I think its a joke that my tax dollars go toward clowns who dont work and cant afford their lifestyle.

I want my taxes going towards things that matter. like schools, police, fireman


The other issue is those like you who have this stupid idea in their heads that everyone, or even the smallest majority of people who can't afford basic needs don't work or live wastefully.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you should hang your head in shame with those generalisations.

  • 12.06.2012 4:38 PM PDT


Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.


So if someone doesnt make as much money, should they be able to walk into the walmart and have whatever they want?

  • 12.06.2012 4:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Sgt Drifter

The other issue is those like you who have this stupid idea in their heads that everyone, or even the smallest majority of people who can't afford basic needs don't work or live wastefully.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you should hang your head in shame with those generalisations.


I dont? I grew up in Innercity Philly. Ive seen thousands of people abuse the system.

  • 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It sounded like that you did not there was no moral basis behind socialised healthcare.

I'm saying that the moral in it is access to healthcare for everyone.

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It's not economically a wise decision- or morally.

That doesn't quite relate to what you said...

  • 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Use your head. The one on your shoulders. No really, just try. Please?

˙sɹǝʇndɯoɔ ɥʇıʍ pooƃ os ʇou ɯ,ı 'ǝɹǝɥ ʇǝƃ sıɥʇ pıp ʍoɥ 'lol

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
Insurance, like education, is not exactly by any means affordable to the greater population.

Not only that but insurance and student loans begin to have an adverse effect by allowing the demand and the price to stay high instead of allowing the market to correct itself, which will/has lead to a crisis.

  • 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.


So if someone doesnt make as much money, should they be able to walk into the walmart and have whatever they want?


Are you stupid?

Really?

Buying things at Walmart =/= healthcare.

To even compare the two on the same level makes me think you are completely daft.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PDT
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Also, LOL at quoting the Fraser Institute.

They're the most hard right organization in the country. There is plenty of bias in those reports.

  • 12.06.2012 4:39 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It sounded like that you did not there was no moral basis behind socialised healthcare.

I'm saying that the moral in it is access to healthcare for everyone.

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It's not economically a wise decision- or morally.

That doesn't quite relate to what you said...


Yes it does.

  • 12.06.2012 4:40 PM PDT


Posted by: CND AAA Beef
Okay, I'll bite.

50.7 million Americans don't have health insurance.

Estimated US 2011 population: 311,591,917

Percentage of population without health insurance: 16%

In the world's largest economy, 16% of its population does not have access to affordable health care. In countries with socialized health care, all you have to do is sign up for a health card, which takes about an hour. And that's it, you have full access to primary care anywhere in your province/country.


Who pays for that 16%'s healthcare?

Me.

My taxes are high enough. Sorry, I already give 30-40% of my paycheck away. I dont want to give anymore away.

  • 12.06.2012 4:40 PM PDT

Major props to my hommie Sheeef. He made Recon possible for me. Long time recovering emails and passwords. And it was his. lol.

iTz R B4ds!

  • 12.06.2012 4:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Sgt Drifter

Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.


So if someone doesnt make as much money, should they be able to walk into the walmart and have whatever they want?


Are you stupid?

Really?

Buying things at Walmart =/= healthcare.

To even compare the two on the same level makes me think you are completely daft.


Its the same.

Say they need food. Can they just walk in walmart and get it for free?

  • 12.06.2012 4:41 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.


So if someone doesnt make as much money, should they be able to walk into the walmart and have whatever they want?


Except people don't choose to become sick.

You choose what job you want, you choose what you buy, etc. Those are your decisions and yours alone, and you accept whatever responsibilities and punishments that come with it.

But being sick/injured is different. It's outside your control.

You can't deny someone the right to life for things that are outside their control.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 4:42 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 4:42 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Sgt Drifter

The other issue is those like you who have this stupid idea in their heads that everyone, or even the smallest majority of people who can't afford basic needs don't work or live wastefully.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you should hang your head in shame with those generalisations.


I dont? I grew up in Innercity Philly. Ive seen thousands of people abuse the system.


Not thousands, no. Hundreds? I'll give you that.

Still, that is merely a fraction of the entire population that is in the same boat and a grossly incorrect generalisation you have made.

  • 12.06.2012 4:42 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.


Posted by: Sgt Drifter
Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It sounded like that you did not there was no moral basis behind socialised healthcare.

I'm saying that the moral in it is access to healthcare for everyone.

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It's not economically a wise decision- or morally.

That doesn't quite relate to what you said...


Yes it does.


In your first post it sounded like you said socialized health care is not a a wise economic or moral decision.

  • 12.06.2012 4:42 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Sgt Drifter

Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Distant Dawn

If someone cant afford their healthcare, they're probably not contributing much.


This is a dangerous way of thinking.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money, doesn't mean they have any fewer rights than you or I do.


So if someone doesnt make as much money, should they be able to walk into the walmart and have whatever they want?


Are you stupid?

Really?

Buying things at Walmart =/= healthcare.

To even compare the two on the same level makes me think you are completely daft.


Its the same.

Say they need food. Can they just walk in walmart and get it for free?


It's not the same at all, and there are these things called food stamps...

  • 12.06.2012 4:43 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)


Posted by: Telec
Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.
I am very nearly at the end of a college degree in Economics. Explain why Economics dictates that socialised healthcare is a bad thing, and then rationalise that against the empirical realities of healthcare quality in the US (both raw and per $ spent) compared to other countries which have socialised systems (just so you know, US healthcare provision is empirically worse)


Because the current reason why costs are so rediculously high in the US is that over regulation in the markets is driving up price, the most major cause being that insurance companies can't trade over state lines.

This in turn means that companies have far less competition, and as such, less customers, and much raise prices in order to gain enough revenue to stay in business.

Meanwhile, if a government run health program goes into effect, they don't have to deal with their insane regulation, because they invented it, and as such can easily under sell any private insurance or healthcare company. Thus, people go to the fed instead of a private company, which then goes out of business, or faces severe losses in revenue, and must either shut down, or fire a large amount of it's workers, leading to rapid increases in unemployment.

Effectively, it kills the private market.

So, the government over regulates something, driving up cost, then decides the only way to fix the over regulation is to regulate the over regulation.

Oh, and finally! Since we're $16 trillion in debt and have no money in the budget for such a plan, the only solution is to take $600 billion from the Medicare budget (not that the money was there in the first place). Meaning that the money that was supposed to pay for Grandma's knee replacement will be going to pay for the crack head's visit to the ER because he cut himself on a beer bottle. Great.

What kills the idea of socialized healthcare is that if the government would step back instead of raising predatory regulation, companies would have lower costs of care and more people could be insured. Believe it or not, corporations and companies are not evil fat cats who would run over their own parents for a dime. In fact, companies thrive on something called "reputation". If a company has a bad one, people won't buy stuff from them.

Companies would LOVE to adopt plans of people with pre-existing conditions, companies would love to pay 100% of someone's medical bill, it leads to good publicity. Unfortunately, they can't, because Uncle Sam is charging them so much for even existing.

And funnily enough, this is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT we're talking about here. Tried to file your income taxes lately? We really want the same group that recently filed a Report about Reports about Reports handling your health care? Really? How is this better and more efficient than letting people with DEGREES in business do it?

If you answered yes, then fine, whatever, I give up.

  • 12.06.2012 4:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Sgt Drifter

Posted by: DatDudeBV

Posted by: Sgt Drifter

The other issue is those like you who have this stupid idea in their heads that everyone, or even the smallest majority of people who can't afford basic needs don't work or live wastefully.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you should hang your head in shame with those generalisations.


I dont? I grew up in Innercity Philly. Ive seen thousands of people abuse the system.


Not thousands, no. Hundreds? I'll give you that.

Still, that is merely a fraction of the entire population that is in the same boat and a grossly incorrect generalisation you have made.


No, it was thousands. And that was just around me.

Theres probably a million people abusing the system.

  • 12.06.2012 4:43 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It sounded like that you did not there was no moral basis behind socialised healthcare.

I'm saying that the moral in it is access to healthcare for everyone.

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
It's not economically a wise decision- or morally.

That doesn't quite relate to what you said...


Yes it does.


In your first post it sounded like you said socialized health care is not a a wise economic or moral decision.


I just reread what I posted and I don't know how that happened, but I am in fact arguing that IT IS.

My bad.

  • 12.06.2012 4:44 PM PDT