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  • Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?
Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
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Posted by: ArtooFeva

Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
Posted by: Sgt Drifter
So you think we should turn down healthcare because they have no money?

Grow up kiddy.

I said that where?

And what?
You implied it which was very stupid.

Read through the thread.

  • 12.06.2012 7:08 PM PDT


Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
Actually, yes, it is. We have an incredible amount of "entitlement" spending that we simply cannot afford.

Elaborate. Because there are only two things that I can think of that have driven us into debt.

  • 12.06.2012 7:10 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

CUZ ITS FREE HURRRRR

  • 12.06.2012 7:11 PM PDT

>2012

>falling for genesis/rose alts

>lol

  • 12.06.2012 7:14 PM PDT

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EGO mos bulla astrum.

I love how we got so many idiots here who believe someone doesn't deserve healthcare if they don't have the money. Someone who's that heartless should be thrown into a garbage grinder.

  • 12.06.2012 7:16 PM PDT

Second acct: RC Zerg Rushes


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
Actually, yes, it is. We have an incredible amount of "entitlement" spending that we simply cannot afford.

Elaborate. Because there are only two things that I can think of that have driven us into debt.



Because lots of our entitlement spending is unfunded liabilities that are not part of the 16 trillion dollars in debt we already owe.


Here's an article that nicely explains the problem in terms of what people would have to play in taxes to fund our entitlements. Though it's from 2009, the value of the unfunded liabilities has only increased, so it's still just as valid in conceptual if not spreadsheet accuracy.


Here's another good one.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 7:30 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 7:21 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

Posted by: ArtooFeva
I love how we got so many idiots here who believe someone doesn't deserve healthcare if they don't have the money. Someone who's that heartless should be thrown into a garbage grinder.


You have the right to pursue happiness here in the states. You are not entitled to it.

  • 12.06.2012 7:23 PM PDT


Posted by: The 13th Arbiter

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
Actually, yes, it is. We have an incredible amount of "entitlement" spending that we simply cannot afford.

Elaborate. Because there are only two things that I can think of that have driven us into debt.



Because lots of our entitlement spending is unfunded liabilities that are not part of the 16 trillion dollars in debt we already owe.


Here's an article that nicely explains the problem in terms of what people would have to play in taxes to fund our entitlements. Though it's from 2009, the value of the unfunded liabilities has only increased, so it's still just as valid in conceptual if not spreadsheet accuracy.


Here's another good one.

Well, now I know more things.

  • 12.06.2012 7:35 PM PDT

I am the Troll King.


Posted by: chronicaddict420
There are positives and negatives to it, like all things.

  • 12.06.2012 7:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: spartanfornow
Posted by: Distant Dawn
because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.

How can you say this when the US healthcare system is the most expensive, and produces some of the worst results per dollar vs most modern countries, many of which have socialized medicine?

We actually have an incredibly high success rate, which is due to the fact that it's expensive. There's more money circulating in the system and it shows. Healthcare is readily available for anyone who can afford it.
And everyone who can't, dies. Rose, you need to stop trying.

  • 12.06.2012 7:36 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.

From the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


I would think keeping your citizens alive falls under "Promote the general welfare."

I think our current system needs a revamp of some kind. People die because they can't afford health care, that isn't right. The Germans have a great system that I think we should look into.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 7:41 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 7:38 PM PDT

Online ID: GriffGraff15


Posted by: chronicaddict420
There are positives and negatives to it, like all things.

  • 12.06.2012 7:40 PM PDT

Covan was here, December 20th.

Come back later, after he's out of Parris Island.

You simply have a misunderstanding of economics, based on what you originally said.

  • 12.06.2012 7:41 PM PDT

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It's fine if you can devote a significant amount of money to supporting it, but in country like America where the military is heavily funded (largely due to ally countries' unwillingness to help shoulder the burden of strategic deterrence through forward deployment and allocation of resources to global needs), it's simply impractical.

  • 12.06.2012 7:43 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
People die because they can't afford health care, that isn't right.


Too bad. That's how the real world works. If you can't afford something, you no get.

  • 12.06.2012 7:43 PM PDT
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KiLo SiErRa 13

socialised health care means a healthier population.

A healthy population works better for longer.

Being rich shouldnt be a requirement to health

  • 12.06.2012 7:44 PM PDT

Second acct: RC Zerg Rushes


Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
It's fine if you can devote a significant amount of money to supporting it, but in country like America where the military is heavily funded (largely due to ally countries' unwillingness to help shoulder the burden of strategic deterrence through forward deployment and allocation of resources to global needs), it's simply impractical.


Military spending is largely irrelevant as far as budgeting goes, accounting for 17% of the budget. Entitlement spending is easily 2x as much in terms of year to year budgeting and is an incredibly larger amount in terms of liabilities.

  • 12.06.2012 7:45 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: Egerspurge
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
People die because they can't afford health care, that isn't right.


Too bad. That's how the real world works. If you can't afford something, you no get.


1. Good luck getting elected with that view.
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.
3. I'm not saying socialized medicine is the answer. But our system is broken and we need to fix it.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 7:50 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 7:47 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.


How is healthcare apart of that?


[Edited on 12.06.2012 7:52 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 7:52 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: The 13th Arbiter


Posted by: Scoopicus

There are a lot of reasons the US is in debt.

That isn't one of them.


Actually, yes, it is. We have an incredible amount of "entitlement" spending that we simply cannot afford.


Much more is spend on subsidaries for coporations than welfare as a whole, as for an economics stand point?

1/3.

1/3 of all healthcare expenses is wasted money.

That is much less effective, an I don't know what makes you think that insurance companies will take people with pre-existing conditions that will cause the insurance company to LOSE money.

Even if they did take those people, the prices would be insanely high, again- the need for affordable healthcare which can only be provided by the social system.

  • 12.06.2012 7:54 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: Egerspurge
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.


How is healthcare apart of that?


Life.

The right to live.

  • 12.06.2012 7:54 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: Egerspurge
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.


How is healthcare apart of that?


Uh...well... life is how...

  • 12.06.2012 7:54 PM PDT

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Somehow I don't think people understand how socialized medicine actually works. Most of your posts make that pretty clear. Looking this thread over, and I see the most intelligent posts look like they are written by 20 year olds, to the worst looking like they are from 12 year olds.

The actual problem with any healthcare system is waste. People are willing to pay more for a system that works. The problem is that too few systems around the world work. From the "Barefoot Medics" (roaming nurses) in China, to the NHS is the UK. And the US system somewhere mixed in that.

Some facts about the US system:

Its inefficient. There is very little communication between the payment organizations and the doctors themselves. When there is, the communication doesn't work because you find doctors talking about procedures to high school drop outs. This adds time between the services rendered and payment for those services. Doctors have to keep their lights on, so they jack the rates up to cover this. It also leads to miscommunications, which causes people to get billed for the wrong things, and things not to be covered.

Not Everyone is covered. We still treat these patients. The hospitals can't turn anyone away from an ER. Its a law. When they dodge their bill, where do you suppose that money gets pulled from? Do you think the hospital eats the cost? Nope, they pass it along in higher prices. That's why a $3 catheter gets billed at $300. Those higher prices get passed to the insurance companies, and then on to the consumer.

Hospital Administration often times don't know what happens in their hospitals. It sounds strange, but often there are 2 or more organizations within one hospital building. I don't mean small solo practitioners or specialists. I mean different departments with different administrations. This often mean they don't communicate between the two (or more) sides. That often leads to doubled costs, as they take care of their own resources. Not to mention the payroll...

Now, these are just 3 reasons why costs are so high. There are hundreds more. I won't say that I am for or against socialized medicine. I am saying our system is breaking, and we should be discussing ways to fix it, and looking at the problems with it.

I do like this thread, as it keeps the conversation going. The problem is that the mix of ignorance and anonymity will mean it will inevitably get locked for some reason. That's too bad.

  • 12.06.2012 7:55 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: Egerspurge
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.


How is healthcare apart of that?


Life.

The right to live.


Cheeseburgers help keep me alive. Do I have a right to cheeseburgers now?

  • 12.06.2012 7:55 PM PDT