Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?
  • Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?
Subject: Why do people think socialized healthcare is a good thing?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: CND AAA Beef

Posted by: George S Patton

Posted by: Distant Dawn

Posted by: Sgt Drifter
The quality is not horrible by any means.

I can't believe you are stupid enough to even suggest this.

More people die from not being able to afford healthcare than because they are on a waiting list.

I can't argue against an opinion that has no factual basis.

I like how you resort to name calling because you're not smart enough to make valid claims. The fact of the matter is Canadian healthcare is worse that American healthcare, and that's still regarding the fact that your taxes are significantly higher to support that failed system. More people may die, but at least people who can afford healthcare are guaranteed valid care instead of a long wait time for lower quality healthcare.

I'm canadian and I've gotta say, that is really wrong. Us Canadians love socialism healthcare, and we constantly laugh at you you americans.
We like the equity behind it. I've worked a stint in health care, and their is much that needs to change within the system to solve some of its flaws.

However, I find it hard to understand why so many Americans cling to the half-truths and outright lies tossed out by Republicans and other right wingers who can't even locate Canada on a map!

Funny how you try to insult republicans because they show how flawed your system is.
And I showed you how flawed your system is.

The fact is that the standard of care between US and Canadian hospitals is for the most part nearly identical. The average person will get roughly the same treatment.

Both systems are flawed. The US system suffers from a lack of equity and overbilling for services due to the insurance industry. The Canadian system has a logistical problem primarily stemming from staffing problems.

The root cause of most of the problems facing Canadian hospitals has nothing to do with the funding being public or private. The main problem is that we just aren't graduating enough techs, nurses, doctors and specialists.

I've worked in hospital administration. I've seen the actual funding numbers coming in, month and year budgets and variances. And it's staffing problems that are causing the issues with the system right now.

And this is why I get annoyed when people who know jack -blam!- about the way the system works and the reasons for the problems it has decide to open their mouths and say it's "broken" because it's "socialist". That's just a bunch of US politicians and media taking a complex problem and working it down to a buzzword that they can use to scare the -blam!- out of their own ideological supporters.

  • 12.06.2012 8:45 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Somehow I don't think people understand how socialized medicine actually works. Most of your posts make that pretty clear. Looking this thread over, and I see the most intelligent posts look like they are written by 20 year olds, to the worst looking like they are from 12 year olds.

The actual problem with any healthcare system is waste. People are willing to pay more for a system that works. The problem is that too few systems around the world work. From the "Barefoot Medics" (roaming nurses) in China, to the NHS is the UK. And the US system somewhere mixed in that.

Some facts about the US system:

Its inefficient. There is very little communication between the payment organizations and the doctors themselves. When there is, the communication doesn't work because you find doctors talking about procedures to high school drop outs. This adds time between the services rendered and payment for those services. Doctors have to keep their lights on, so they jack the rates up to cover this. It also leads to miscommunications, which causes people to get billed for the wrong things, and things not to be covered.

Not Everyone is covered. We still treat these patients. The hospitals can't turn anyone away from an ER. Its a law. When they dodge their bill, where do you suppose that money gets pulled from? Do you think the hospital eats the cost? Nope, they pass it along in higher prices. That's why a $3 catheter gets billed at $300. Those higher prices get passed to the insurance companies, and then on to the consumer.

Hospital Administration often times don't know what happens in their hospitals. It sounds strange, but often there are 2 or more organizations within one hospital building. I don't mean small solo practitioners or specialists. I mean different departments with different administrations. This often mean they don't communicate between the two (or more) sides. That often leads to doubled costs, as they take care of their own resources. Not to mention the payroll...

Now, these are just 3 reasons why costs are so high. There are hundreds more. I won't say that I am for or against socialized medicine. I am saying our system is breaking, and we should be discussing ways to fix it, and looking at the problems with it.

I do like this thread, as it keeps the conversation going. The problem is that the mix of ignorance and anonymity will mean it will inevitably get locked for some reason. That's too bad.



^^This quoted post is highly inaccurate.

To say there is very little communication in a hospital is absurd.

Hospital administrators know exactly what is going on in their hospitals.

Hospitals don't raise prices just because they had a bad quarterly...



Also, those "high school drop outs" that communicate with doctors are called "coders". They actually have to get a college degree in "coding" so they know exactly what some doctor is talking about, slap a code on the bill for whatever diagnosis the doctor gave the patient, and then send the bill to whatever insurance company it needs to go to.

Prices aren't high because hospitals don't want to eat the cost, it's because insurance companies don't like forking over money, and because people don't read their crappy health care policies before they sign them.


Hospital administrators are always meeting together, to communicate and to solve problems that arise in a quick and efficient manner...


For costs, blame pharmaceutical and insurance companies... A lot of doctors waive their fees when they work in hospitals anyway.








[Edited on 12.06.2012 8:57 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 8:49 PM PDT

"If you want to test a man's character, give him power" -- Abraham Lincoln


Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.

  • 12.06.2012 8:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: ArchNinja64

Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.
Because the 50.7 million Americans who don't even have health coverage are doing much better.

  • 12.06.2012 8:53 PM PDT

Please do not send me group invites.


Posted by: ArchNinja64

Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.
that's a canadian problem, not a socialized healthcare problem.

  • 12.06.2012 9:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
A real test of a man is if he is willing to scrape a sharpened razor up and down his junk just to please a woman.


Posted by: Egerspurge
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
2. Every person has the rights to life, liberty, and property.


How is healthcare apart of that?
2. Every person has the rights to lifeHurrrrrr.

  • 12.06.2012 9:05 PM PDT

(V)!_!(V) crab


Posted by: ArchNinja64

Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.


You do realize that if push comes to shove any Canadian can cross the boarder for healthcare. I know for a fact that OHIP (Ontario health Insurance policy) will cover some cost. You can even go to a non OHIP GP and skip all the lines but you will have to somehow find a way to pay for it yourself.

Are Canadas wait times longer in emerge? Yes but that is because people arent afraid to go to the hospital for something that could be minor. Plus if you have a serious illness they will bump you ahead of the line.

  • 12.06.2012 9:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
A real test of a man is if he is willing to scrape a sharpened razor up and down his junk just to please a woman.


Posted by: ArchNinja64

Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.
How long are wait times in European countries?

  • 12.06.2012 9:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: xMaJoR cRaBsx

Posted by: ArchNinja64

Posted by: A Blind Wolf

Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.


Prove how it isn't a wise decision. You provide NO proof for your claim. Canada has it and they're doing fantastic. Explain that, retard.


They're doing fantastic, except all of the people who are on the wait list slowly dying.


You do realize that if push comes to shove any Canadian can cross the boarder for healthcare. I know for a fact that OHIP (Ontario health Insurance policy) will cover some cost. You can even go to a non OHIP GP and skip all the lines but you will have to somehow find a way to pay for it yourself.

Are Canadas wait times longer in emerge? Yes but that is because people arent afraid to go to the hospital for something that could be minor. Plus if you have a serious illness they will bump you ahead of the line.
Yeah. A lot of hospitals are trying to push the less serious emergency cases out to urgent care centres, leaving the ER for critical ones. Problem is that people haven't really picked up on that yet and are still crowding up the ER.

  • 12.06.2012 9:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

-Gandalf

Posted by: Garem
Posted by: Garem
0/10

  • 12.06.2012 9:09 PM PDT

Halo 3 is where the morons of the universe congregates.

I am thinking of an old story. "Three Billy Goats Gruff" (hint the troll dies at the end)

Posted by: zarrowsmith
If you had an electron microscope, you still couldn't find the -blam!- I don't give.

for this thread i forgive you for your Jersey Shore thread

  • 12.06.2012 9:09 PM PDT

I know my ways. So just stay back.

Well it's working pretty well in England.

  • 12.06.2012 9:10 PM PDT

Who am I?

mah twitter

Member Since: 11.30.2012

I can't give you a 0/10 though, because apparently lots of people took you seriously. I say it's a solid 2/10, for getting so many replies and actually having a little more complicated subject than most trolls here.

  • 12.06.2012 9:11 PM PDT

(V)!_!(V) crab


Posted by: hal0l

Posted by: xMaJoR cRaBsx
Plus if you have a serious illness they will bump you ahead of the line.


Or, you know, you could get what you pay for, instead of making the payers wait behind non-payers.

Seems like a pretty -blam!- system to me.


Uhh everyone pays through taxes. There is no such thing as non-payers. Plus it is fairly standard everywhere. Who would go first?

1. A kid with vomiting and a fever who has been waiting for an hour
2. A woman who went into cardiac arrest.

  • 12.06.2012 9:13 PM PDT

Halo 3 is where the morons of the universe congregates.

I am thinking of an old story. "Three Billy Goats Gruff" (hint the troll dies at the end)

Posted by: zarrowsmith
If you had an electron microscope, you still couldn't find the -blam!- I don't give.


Posted by: Cheesusslice

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Somehow I don't think people understand how socialized medicine actually works. Most of your posts make that pretty clear. Looking this thread over, and I see the most intelligent posts look like they are written by 20 year olds, to the worst looking like they are from 12 year olds.

The actual problem with any healthcare system is waste. People are willing to pay more for a system that works. The problem is that too few systems around the world work. From the "Barefoot Medics" (roaming nurses) in China, to the NHS is the UK. And the US system somewhere mixed in that.

Some facts about the US system:

Its inefficient. There is very little communication between the payment organizations and the doctors themselves. When there is, the communication doesn't work because you find doctors talking about procedures to high school drop outs. This adds time between the services rendered and payment for those services. Doctors have to keep their lights on, so they jack the rates up to cover this. It also leads to miscommunications, which causes people to get billed for the wrong things, and things not to be covered.

Not Everyone is covered. We still treat these patients. The hospitals can't turn anyone away from an ER. Its a law. When they dodge their bill, where do you suppose that money gets pulled from? Do you think the hospital eats the cost? Nope, they pass it along in higher prices. That's why a $3 catheter gets billed at $300. Those higher prices get passed to the insurance companies, and then on to the consumer.

Hospital Administration often times don't know what happens in their hospitals. It sounds strange, but often there are 2 or more organizations within one hospital building. I don't mean small solo practitioners or specialists. I mean different departments with different administrations. This often mean they don't communicate between the two (or more) sides. That often leads to doubled costs, as they take care of their own resources. Not to mention the payroll...

Now, these are just 3 reasons why costs are so high. There are hundreds more. I won't say that I am for or against socialized medicine. I am saying our system is breaking, and we should be discussing ways to fix it, and looking at the problems with it.

I do like this thread, as it keeps the conversation going. The problem is that the mix of ignorance and anonymity will mean it will inevitably get locked for some reason. That's too bad.



^^This quoted post is highly inaccurate.

To say there is very little communication in a hospital is absurd.


he said between hospitals and the insurance companies. this is because everything is in paper form and not digital. so a hospital has to physically call someone else to have your health records FAXED to them, its like whisper down the lane, it will get changed from time to time

  • 12.06.2012 9:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Yourself 332AGN

Posted by: Cheesusslice

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Somehow I don't think people understand how socialized medicine actually works. Most of your posts make that pretty clear. Looking this thread over, and I see the most intelligent posts look like they are written by 20 year olds, to the worst looking like they are from 12 year olds.

The actual problem with any healthcare system is waste. People are willing to pay more for a system that works. The problem is that too few systems around the world work. From the "Barefoot Medics" (roaming nurses) in China, to the NHS is the UK. And the US system somewhere mixed in that.

Some facts about the US system:

Its inefficient. There is very little communication between the payment organizations and the doctors themselves. When there is, the communication doesn't work because you find doctors talking about procedures to high school drop outs. This adds time between the services rendered and payment for those services. Doctors have to keep their lights on, so they jack the rates up to cover this. It also leads to miscommunications, which causes people to get billed for the wrong things, and things not to be covered.

Not Everyone is covered. We still treat these patients. The hospitals can't turn anyone away from an ER. Its a law. When they dodge their bill, where do you suppose that money gets pulled from? Do you think the hospital eats the cost? Nope, they pass it along in higher prices. That's why a $3 catheter gets billed at $300. Those higher prices get passed to the insurance companies, and then on to the consumer.

Hospital Administration often times don't know what happens in their hospitals. It sounds strange, but often there are 2 or more organizations within one hospital building. I don't mean small solo practitioners or specialists. I mean different departments with different administrations. This often mean they don't communicate between the two (or more) sides. That often leads to doubled costs, as they take care of their own resources. Not to mention the payroll...

Now, these are just 3 reasons why costs are so high. There are hundreds more. I won't say that I am for or against socialized medicine. I am saying our system is breaking, and we should be discussing ways to fix it, and looking at the problems with it.

I do like this thread, as it keeps the conversation going. The problem is that the mix of ignorance and anonymity will mean it will inevitably get locked for some reason. That's too bad.



^^This quoted post is highly inaccurate.

To say there is very little communication in a hospital is absurd.


he said between hospitals and the insurance companies. this is because everything is in paper form and not digital. so a hospital has to physically call someone else to have your health records FAXED to them, its like whisper down the lane, it will get changed from time to time


I re-read and didn't see him mention anything about hospitals to insurance companies... He said doctors to payment organizations, which goes through hospital channels first. Until he comes back to clear this up, we'll never know.

Also, I've never faxed any kind of billing information... It's all done electronically at both the hospitals I've worked at.

[Edited on 12.06.2012 9:21 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2012 9:19 PM PDT

Halo 3 is where the morons of the universe congregates.

I am thinking of an old story. "Three Billy Goats Gruff" (hint the troll dies at the end)

Posted by: zarrowsmith
If you had an electron microscope, you still couldn't find the -blam!- I don't give.


Posted by: Cheesusslice

Also, I've never faxed any kind of billing information... It's all done electronically at both the hospitals I've worked at.
not the billing records, the medical records

  • 12.06.2012 9:27 PM PDT


Posted by: Yourself 332AGN

Posted by: Cheesusslice

Also, I've never faxed any kind of billing information... It's all done electronically at both the hospitals I've worked at.
not the billing records, the medical records



Oh!

Yeah, a lot of that can be a big hassle. Although the new thing is to have electronic medical records.

Most times it isn't that complicated to send/receive medical records. Normally, it's the Doctor that messes it up because they are in such a hurry.

  • 12.06.2012 9:43 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Because it increase the health of those who otherwise could not afford extensive health care.

  • 12.06.2012 9:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Distant Dawn
Explain, because based on economics, it's not a very wise decision.

Based on quality of life, it is. Quit being biased and look at it from other points of view, in your current state I cannot take you seriously at all. I have a friend who has extreme, long-lasting pain recurring every several months, but he can't afford to go to the hospital because the costs would wreck his family.

  • 12.06.2012 9:57 PM PDT

Because life isn't all about the individual. It's about the other.
It's affordable and the responsible thing to do.

  • 12.06.2012 10:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

GT: Clerks

I pay for healthcare now; I will pay for healthcare when it is socialized...

I fail to see the difference.

  • 12.06.2012 10:15 PM PDT

Please do not send me group invites.


Posted by: Adamantiumind
I pay for healthcare now; I will pay for healthcare when it is socialized...

I fail to see the difference.
socialism!

  • 12.06.2012 10:16 PM PDT