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Subject: What happened to skill gaps in multiplayer games?

心の中に弱い風が吹いています。

Because money.

  • 12.08.2012 4:46 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: BetaXP
Games like that exist. Modern ones, no less. The following just isn't as large as it used to be.

Examples of such competitive, skillful modern games includes Counter Strike: GO, Tribes: Ascend, Dota 2, the Assassin's Creed games (usually, when someone just doesn't go around with the arm gun), etc.


I play Counter-Strike (or used to, anyway), Dota, StarCraft II, and Quake a lot. I was more referring to the game industry at large.

On a side note, I love the AC multiplayer! I don't think of it as competitive, but I find it really enjoyable and unique.

  • 12.08.2012 4:47 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: swvjdirector
The problem is that, after all the positioning, determining effective ranges, and so forth, the weapon basically rolls dice
No, it doesn't. It's just as simple as that. You've proposed a paradox.

There are two possibilities:

-If you have properly positioned, aimed, and fired after taking into account the effective range of your weapon with its spread from hip firing, then you will hit your target.
-If you have not roperly positioned, aimed, and fired after taking into account the effective range of your weapon with its spread from hip firing, then you will not hit your target.

It's extremely simple. The two are mutually exclusive, if you've missed your target then you haven't taken into account and acted based on all of the mechanics of the game. If the randomness of bullet distribution caused you to miss, you were not positioned close enough to your target. Moving to a point where you are guaranteed a hit even with the spread means that you have properly considered all the mechanics of the game.

As well, it's a moot point. Since the more skilled player is the one who can aim down their sights quickly and accurately to score the kill because it's the shortcut to a guaranteed kill.

That is the state of things.

  • 12.08.2012 4:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: swvjdirector

Posted by: BetaXP
Games like that exist. Modern ones, no less. The following just isn't as large as it used to be.

Examples of such competitive, skillful modern games includes Counter Strike: GO, Tribes: Ascend, Dota 2, the Assassin's Creed games (usually, when someone just doesn't go around with the arm gun), etc.


I play Counter-Strike (or used to, anyway), Dota, StarCraft II, and Quake a lot. I was more referring to the game industry at large.

On a side note, I love the AC multiplayer! I don't think of it as competitive, but I find it really enjoyable and unique.

The gaming industry is going through it's phases, just like it always does. In 10 years, things will be completely different then how they are now.

And I didn't necessarily mean that Assassin's Creed games are super-competitive; I don't really find them that way either. What I am saying, however, is the people who perform better are always the ones who win in Assassin's Creed games. There's very little luck factor into it.

  • 12.08.2012 4:50 PM PDT

Mediocre Backpacker
56% W\L
2.86 k\d
3.18 DMR
7.29 God Magnum
7.79 Sniper
5.34 Needle Rifle

Does Planetside 2 not count? Or Tribes: Ascend?

  • 12.08.2012 4:51 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: swvjdirector
The problem is that, after all the positioning, determining effective ranges, and so forth, the weapon basically rolls dice
No, it doesn't. It's just as simple as that. You've proposed a paradox.

There are two possibilities:

-If you have properly positioned, aimed, and fired after taking into account the effective range of your weapon with its spread from hip firing, then you will hit your target.
-If you have not roperly positioned, aimed, and fired after taking into account the effective range of your weapon with its spread from hip firing, then you will not hit your target.

It's extremely simple. The two are mutually exclusive, if you've missed your target then you haven't taken into account and acted based on all of the mechanics of the game. If the randomness of bullet distribution caused you to miss, you were not positioned close enough to your target. Moving to a point where you are guaranteed a hit even with the spread means that you have properly considered all the mechanics of the game.

As well, it's a moot point. Since the more skilled player is the one who can aim down their sights quickly and accurately to score the kill because it's the shortcut to a guaranteed kill.

That is the state of things.


Again, you're missing something clear: Let's say someone sprays at a distance. Even if they aren't using the most effective positioning, they can still end up getting a kill against someone aiming down their sights. Granted, it's rare, but it happens. If the kills weren't so quick, it might be okay, because the more accurate player would win out more. But the truth is, hipfire can accrue kills on occasion based on random shots. You say that you won't hit your target if you haven't properly positioned, but even that isn't really true. It's entirely possible to get kills at distances with hipfire. Even beyond the effective range of a weapon, on Hardcore, it's easy to hipfire for kills.

Sure, you could say "well don't play Hardcore then" but it's silly to be deprived of something otherwise enjoyable because of a design error.

  • 12.08.2012 4:51 PM PDT

The world is not beautiful: And that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty.

~Kino's Journey

Difficulty != sales

There may be some exceptions but for the most part people will rather buy something that they can be good at.

  • 12.08.2012 4:58 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: DarkJet7
Difficulty != sales

There may be some exceptions but for the most part people will rather buy something that they can be good at.


This is a fair point. I suppose most people play games to relax, so having to put in a great deal of effort in order to do that isn't particularly relaxing.

  • 12.08.2012 5:02 PM PDT

No thought required, just spawn and GOOOOOOOOOOO

Call of Duty happened

  • 12.08.2012 5:08 PM PDT

My Screenshots / My Group / Remember to follow the rules or you will get trapped in a box.

Battlefield 3 jet flying seems to have a pretty decent skill gap. I rarely get shot down. I find few people who can actually combat me. When I do we usually have trouble shooting each other down.

[Edited on 12.08.2012 5:13 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2012 5:09 PM PDT

Your mother is a very handsome man.

Ya'll haven't played Guild Wars 2 PVP

  • 12.08.2012 5:11 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Flaming Wombat
Because the 'competitive' audience is so small compared to the causal audience, so devs changed the way games work.

People may not like it, but...

  • 12.08.2012 5:41 PM PDT
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blame cod and money

Posted by: mvyorkie009
there hasnt been any since gears of war 2...sadly D:
yorkie


fixed

  • 12.08.2012 6:46 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0

This is why I usually play RPG's.

  • 12.08.2012 6:48 PM PDT

The human element always mucks things up.

People learned to stop being such tryhards and just played the damn games for what they were.

  • 12.08.2012 6:49 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Without The Flood, I wouldn't know what an opinion is.

Why OP, that's because you're still playing shooters!

If you're looking for games where skill-gapes are glaringly obvious, look no further than Fighting/RTS/MOBA. In pretty much any game within those genres. The difference between an experience player and a new one is night and day.

  • 12.08.2012 6:54 PM PDT
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I think people are confusing skill gap with learning curve.

  • 12.08.2012 7:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Suikoden
PC master race.

Oh please.

If you want skill gaps, play fighting games, RTS, or MOBA games, pretty simple.

A good player in Tekken, for example, will win over a bad one every single time.

  • 12.08.2012 7:41 PM PDT
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LeaveItYeah

Gaming evolved. More and more "casual" players appeared, they were the biggest target audience so companies went for that market.

  • 12.08.2012 7:43 PM PDT

Gear of War 3.

At least there is some skill gap.

  • 12.08.2012 7:44 PM PDT
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If you really want to be technical, Halo 2 kinda started the trend.

  • 12.08.2012 7:47 PM PDT

For a game to succeed, it must appeal to both gamers. Competitive and casual. If it doesn't, then the game is not good enough. Unfortunately games are one or the other anymore, not like Halo 3. Halo 3 had infection, and Action sack, and Social Playlists where you screwed around more and just had fun, then Ranked for Competitive gamers. It worked perfectly.

  • 12.08.2012 7:53 PM PDT

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