Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Pokemon has taken a huge change for the worse (Personal theories)
  • Subject: Pokemon has taken a huge change for the worse (Personal theories)
Subject: Pokemon has taken a huge change for the worse (Personal theories)

Roll the dice, try again.

Referenced picture on what my discussion is about

Pokémon is a pretty successful franchise - thirteen years and it's still running strong. However, Pokémon as a game - and we're talking main-series adventure games here, not Mysterious Dungeon, Ranger, Pinball, or the various other spin-offs - sucks. There are various reasons for this, many of which I'll detail below.

Stagnation
The Pokémon games I'm talking about are traditional slooooooow JRPGs. Standard turn-based battle system, level-grinding, square grid-based overworld, incredibly linear - come on, even Dragon Quest has deviated a bit from that ancient formula for a while now!

Legendaries
Everyone knows about the special class of Pokémon usually referred to as "legendaries" - a bird trio and two incredible psychics in first-gen; a beast trio, two birds, and a grass elemental with control over time in second-gen; a trio of golems, a trio of powerful monsters with control over the weather, two playful dragons, a elusive wish-granter, and an alien in third-gen; and God knows what in fourth-gen. There are thirty-five legendaries in all, almost all of which can now be caught through regular gameplay throughout the five fourth-gen games (including some as part of the main storyline). Shouldn't legendaries be, y'know, legendary? In a way other than stats?

Too Many Pokémon, Can't Catch 'Em All
As of fourth-gen, there are 493 unique Pokémon species. In third-gen, to be able to complete the Pokédex (a major post-game goal for many players) without trading with other players, one had to own all five main-series third-gen releases, two GameCube games, and a GBA-to-GCN cable. A player wishing to complete the Pokédex in fourth-gen (again, without trading with other players, including WFC) must own all three major releases, plus a spin-off and two games that haven't been released in the US yet. Pokémon stopped being fun (or inexpensive) for completionists after first-gen.

Hacking And Piracy
Using cheating devices or otherwise hacking to obtain advantages is present in most games, but it's especially prominent in Pokémon, enough so that out-of-the-box compatibility with the latest Pokémon release is a commonly-advertised feature of many cheating devices. Additionally, no copy-protection has been implemented in a main-series Pokémon game yet, so they're easily among the most pirated games on Nintendo's handhelds in addition to being some of the best-selling games.

Multiplayer
Can you honestly say you'd praise a Pokémon game for its multiplayer? This isn't a well-crafted fighting game, real-time-strategy game, or first-person shooter. It's a turn-based RPG (and, in fourth-gen, a boring form of capture-the-flag). They somehow hold serious-business tournaments for these games, despite being largely unbalanced (enough that seventeen monsters are banned outright from standard tournament use, the equivalent of one out of twenty-nine selectable characters in a fighting game being hard-banned) and not particularly fun in multiplayer.

All some pretty glaring problems. At least two of them plague almost any long-running popular series, but Pokémon has this problem where the developers have made no effort to even slightly fix most of these problems. And why should they? As long as people keep buying these games, they don't need to change the formula, right? So they'll never make the following changes...

Change Up The Formula, Just A Little Bit
This isn't even that hard. Keeping it turn-based is fine. Ditch the grid, though. Use a better leveling system, or make grinding more rewarding - even rare loot drops from defeating monsters that carry items would be an improvement, as long as it doesn't lead to the inclusion of fetch quests. Open the world up a bit - instead of roadblocks and the HM system preventing you from getting to the next city, why not just allow you to go wherever you want (the Surf requirement to get to islands excluded), but not compensate for your lower level at all? (The system with unresponsive Pokémon if you don't have a badge allowing you to control them would definitely need to remain in place.) Just take some inspiration from other JRPGs.

Make Legendaries Legendary (And Change The Save System While You're At It)
Another easy fix. First off, ditch the Master Ball entirely. No more "oh, hey, I don't want to bother with fighting this guy, I'll just use the item with a 100% catch rate" going on. You have to work for your legendaries. Second, make it so legendaries aren't always there. To use the set-up from the first-gen games as an example, when you reach a legendary Pokémon's den, it'll be there, and you have one chance to face it; there was also one Pokémon that could only be legitimately obtained through a special Nintendo event. Scrap all that. Instead, with the bird trio, you have a 25% chance of that particular bird being there on that playthrough. If it's there, that's the bird you'll have a chance at getting; otherwise, you get a Nugget. Have it be even lower for Mewtwo (let's say 10% chance of it being there, and a Rare Candy or something otherwise), and have Mew roam the land with a one-in-67,108,864 encounter rate. In that example, there's a chance at getting exactly one bird (not your choice which), a lower chance at exactly one Mewtwo, and a very slim chance (but always a chance) of obtaining a Mew. This is the part of this scenario where everyone complains about it really being impossible to complete the Pokédex without trading. Three words: New. Game. Plus. You'd be able to start a new file in which your Pokémon from the previous game are locked away until you defeat the Elite Four Champion (added bonus if the game is programmed so that the Champion uses the exact party used to defeat the previous Elite Four). Reroll for legendaries and make it so that everything can be accomplished with a single copy of the game with enough time and effort. Also: you can only load from a particular save once (Diablo-style, not NetHack-style) - try to load from it again and it starts you back at the last Pokémon Center (with some sort of other punishment, though definitely not the "you lose all your money" thing Diablo II does). Also also: it autosaves for legendary battles (as with secret base battles in third-gen), so whatever happens happens regardless of whatever you might try to do to get out of an undesirable outcome.

Just Introduce A New Land Next Time, And Bring Back All Of The Old Pokémon
No more new Pokémon, or keep it under fifty if you absolutely have to include them, and make sure every single one uses a type combination we've never seen before if that's the case. Instead of crafting all sorts of new Pokémon, craft yet another new world, and make it so that every single Pokémon can be caught in this new world. Put it a decade or more after second- and fourth-gen. Connect it to the old lands with news clippings, television stories, books, and other sorts of things that show that the old places still exist, but they're way different from here (and make sure to document the kinds of things that might have changed there during the elapsed time). The only things that could be compared to the other lands would be the gym system (though it could have a lot more than eight badges) and the Elite Four (which could also be increased for a harder boss gauntlet).

Anti-Hacking And Anti-Piracy
This is where suddenly a lot of people get overly defensive about cheating in a video game. My standpoint? If the game detects that the save file has been altered by outside forces (such as a Pokésav equivalent or an Action Replay)? Have it corrupt the save file and scold the player. (If you really think this is too harsh a punishment - though it's seriously not - the game can warn the player the first time they do it and then corrupt the save file if more changes are detected.) Put in a copy-protection check at the file creation screen and after every gym leader battle (and code each check slightly differently as to make it harder to get around the protection); if a check fails at the new game screen, put a BAD EGG (or equivalent) in the player's party and fill every storage box with BAD EGGs (so that the player can't just dump the BAD EGG into a box to deal with it), and if it fails elsewhere, turn every Pokémon in the player's party except one into a BAD EGG and do as before with the storage boxes (and transform every Pokémon already in storage into a BAD EGG). Program it in such a way that if one tries to hack it out of the game (whether through an Action Replay code or hex-editing the ROM) it activates the anti-hacking stuff and automatically corrupts the save file. Figure out some way to code it so that it would be so much work to crack as to not be worth it. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story's copy-protection was a big deal because it checked twice (once at the file select screen and once at the first boss fight), so take that even further.

Conclusion
So yeah, none of those changes would probably ever be introduced into an official Pokémon release, though change is all but necessary at this point. For a fan game, though, or yet another game to try to compete with Pokémon? Many of these changes (excepting the anti-piracy for a fan game, obviously) could make for something really great.

TL;DR: Look at this picture.

[Edited on 12.08.2012 4:23 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2012 4:20 PM PDT
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First 2 generations > everything else.
/Thread

  • 12.08.2012 4:21 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

>linking to a funnyjunk image url
>2012

  • 12.08.2012 4:21 PM PDT

The black wind begins to blow... Okay... give me your best shot... If you're prepared for the void!

Ummm funnyjunk doesn't work here.

  • 12.08.2012 4:21 PM PDT


Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
>linking to a funnyjunk image url
>2012

  • 12.08.2012 4:21 PM PDT

were together now friends forever now, whatever comes our way we wont run away


hnnnnngggggg

  • 12.08.2012 4:22 PM PDT
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"The hero is the one who kindles a great light in the world, who sets up blazing torches in the dark streets of life for men to see by.
The saint is the man who walks through the dark paths of the world, himself a light."
-Felix Adler

>Is not a wizard
>tries to link funnyjunk on b.net anyway
Srsly?


OT: I would buy a Pokemon game if it sold on iOS.

  • 12.08.2012 4:23 PM PDT

Roll the dice, try again.

Alright, just fixed the picture links.

  • 12.08.2012 4:23 PM PDT

Rain, and Jazz.
Halo: Tactical

I'm either a fool or an inteligent man, depending on how sleepy or angry I am.

I originaly made an account on 07.27.2007 but I wanted to link my GT and made this account. Don't forget your passwords!

Umm. All I can really ask is what Pokemon game is the best in your opinion? (My thread)

[Edited on 12.08.2012 4:24 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2012 4:24 PM PDT

I remember when I used this space to put cool looking links to my chapters back in the day. I don't even know why I'm using it now. Why are you even reading this? You must be interested in me. Still reading?

Simple graphics are good graphics. Depth = bad.

And the only way to catch them all is too own all of the different versions and trade them to one game.

  • 12.08.2012 4:24 PM PDT

I like shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear.

Posted by: Marathon
and a very slim chance (but always a chance) of obtaining a Mew.

Slim?

Bearing in mind that Black and White sold fourteen million copies, I'd say a one-in-sixty-million chance of anyone catching a Mew would be a bit below "slim".

  • 12.08.2012 4:27 PM PDT

Why don't we just share the hill?


Posted by: Marathon

Hacking And Piracy
Using cheating devices or otherwise hacking to obtain advantages is present in most games, but it's especially prominent in Pokémon, enough so that out-of-the-box compatibility with the latest Pokémon release is a commonly-advertised feature of many cheating devices. Additionally, no copy-protection has been implemented in a main-series Pokémon game yet, so they're easily among the most pirated games on Nintendo's handhelds in addition to being some of the best-selling games.


I agree with this 100% Especially using hacked pokemon online. It makes the effort that other people put in pointless.

  • 12.08.2012 4:27 PM PDT

Vote for me for a free cookie.

Remake of Ruby and Sapphire please.

  • 12.08.2012 4:30 PM PDT

The only thing I'd really want out of Pokemon to add is the ability to learn more than four moves. It would be awesome if they could learn six or so moves so that I won't need at least two Pokemon as HM slaves.

I don't mind the legendary situation though I also feel the new ones hold less of a "legendary" status with there being so many. Nonetheless, I don't think they should limit the ones you can get during a play through (beyond version differences). They're legendary because you encounter them only once.

On the note of the Master Ball, I'm sure you still only get one in the entire game. It's hardly abusable.

Also, on the cheating part, I think it adds to the enjoyment of the single player experience. I've beaten the game and I don't think it's wrong if someone wants to cheat. If they try to spoil online competitive areas, that's another story. However, I've read that Game Freak has done a pretty good job at banning certain Pokemon (cheated ones as well) so that's not really an issue.

  • 12.08.2012 4:31 PM PDT

I just want a pokemon game were you can go to all the regions. Just combine all the pokemon games. Also make more than one save, I hate how you can only have one save.

  • 12.08.2012 4:34 PM PDT

Posted by: petarded2
but only a scant few of my hooker corpses are arranged in rectangles

the only thing i can agree with you with is the anti-hacking measures they should have and changing up the formula. legendaries are still legendaries because they're difficult to catch, part of the storyline for most of them and it's not like you get multiple master balls (unless you do a raffle thing, which is a pretty slim chance). there's nothing you can really do to fix the too many pokemon thing, but they've made it easier in gen. 5 to get all of them with the GTS and after the elite 4 in BW2 the game is designed to see all of the pokemon for the national dec to trade for in the GTS.

and for that picture, i hope you realize it just points out what's awesome about pokemon in a stupid way on accident. the only people that know of EV training are people that are really into pokemon; i'm volunteering at this pokemon club and the kids don't know anything about pokemon and they're still having a great time. even my friend has an awesome time with pokemon, and he just has a gyrados loaded up with special attacks despite being a physical attacker

  • 12.08.2012 4:47 PM PDT