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This topic has moved here: Subject: TrueSkill and other ELO Rating Systems are flawed
  • Subject: TrueSkill and other ELO Rating Systems are flawed
Subject: TrueSkill and other ELO Rating Systems are flawed

Lol

This is a long post. TLDR: ELO Ratings skill systems do not provide variety in matches. And unless someone plans to go compete in tournaments, punishes players above average skill levels.

This is probably the biggest issue that I see people have with current online games. Both companies and players are trying too hard to make games where people only play similar skilled players. But this doesn't benefit the majority, it only benefits the two opposites of the spectrum. It benefits the top competitive who treat games similar to a job and hope to make money from the game and it benefits the players who absolutely have no idea what they are doing. For anyone in between it's an absolute nightmare. For the rest it just makes games frustrating.

In older games everything was random. Sometimes you won. Sometimes you lost. Some games were easy and some games were hard. If you were really good you knew it because you destroyed in almost every match. If you were bad, you lost almost every match and thus you knew you had to improve. What I don't understand is why are companies and players from opposite spectrum's are so against this. What is so wrong with having a true natural skill gap where people are rewarded just like in real life if they put in a lot of work and effort.

From what I've seen since Halo 2 made the original true skill matchmaking system is that people are much angrier and ultimately aren't having much of a good time. They keep playing the game because they have these few moments where they dominate the other team or get a really nice multi kill. Most likely because the ELO Rating system gave them easier opponents after losing and raging for awhile. This kind of system just makes it where being good or even above average means absolutely nothing because guess what, the skills that made you better won't make you anymore kills than before.

ELO Rating systems kind of remind me of Communism. On paper, it sounds nice everyone being equal and playing people their own levels all the time. But ultimately it becomes abused and doesn't reward players for making any kind of improvement in their game except facing harder opponents.

  • 12.11.2012 12:13 PM PDT
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Foman is my favorite moderator. <3

There isn't anything wrong with ELO systems - if you keep playlists separate.

There should be both casual playlists with just random matching and competitive playlists with ELO/rank-based matching.

I agree - ELO based matches every game can get stressful for those that care about winning. There needs to be an area to blow off steam - you can even ignore K/D tracking or something in there to keep good players from retreating there all the time to stat pad.

  • 12.11.2012 12:16 PM PDT
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Well, it might have something to do with the fact that Elo was designed for chess.

Though I kinda agree. The problem with matchmaking is that it often sticks a somewhat above average player on a team of dumbasses, while the other team is composed of decent players. I'm looking at you, COD!

At least in BF, you just get dropped in an empty slot.

  • 12.11.2012 12:17 PM PDT

Play Social if you don't want to play competent opponents.

I can guarantee I would not have played nearly as much Halo 3 if there were only Social playlists. As relaxing as it can be to wreck mentally challenged opponents, the aspiration of most gamers is to face a constantly improving opponent in order to improve their skills.

You can sit around shooting rockets at AFK multis for days on end and get no better at a game.

If you're looking for a game where you can get 20-30 kills per life with ease, go load up an old game and square off with a bunch of easy bots.

  • 12.11.2012 12:17 PM PDT
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It seems that your understanding of the goal of such systems is flawed, OP. They aren't designed with the intent to reward you for getting better. They're designed specifically so that even matches can be created for the players. That was part of the problem with Halo 3's setup. People misinterpreted their rank as a reward, which led to a lot of boosting and a few stolen accounts.

  • 12.11.2012 12:20 PM PDT

Lol

I'm not saying I want play against lesser skilled players all the time. All I'm saying is that playing a variety of skill levels is much better than just playing players your skill level all the time.

  • 12.11.2012 12:20 PM PDT

Lol


Posted by: L00
It seems that your understanding of the goal of such systems is flawed, OP. They aren't designed with the intent to reward you for getting better. They're designed specifically so that even matches can be created for the players. That was part of the problem with Halo 3's setup. People misinterpreted their rank as a reward, which led to a lot of boosting and a few stolen accounts.


Even matches all the time make the game feel more like a job than a game if your above average. There needs to be a reason to improve. Better competition isn't enough to satisfy players time.

  • 12.11.2012 12:22 PM PDT

A competitive players main goal is to win.
A casuals main goal is to have fun regardless of whether that results in a win or loss.
It has nothing to do with individual skill or knowledge, it has to do with the reason you play.

No kidding? I see nothing wrong with them, as long as there is social playlist. My friends aren't as experienced and skilled Halo players as I am, you can imagine what it's like to play Halo 4 with them when they get matched against team of people of my skill level. This is exactly why I put Halo 4 back on shelf and went back to BF3, if I can't play with my friends, the game isn't worth my time or money.

Was ranked/social system so damn hard to implement for 343i?

  • 12.11.2012 12:23 PM PDT

Lol


Posted by: Metalignus
No kidding? I see nothing wrong with them, as long as there is social playlist. My friends aren't as experienced and skilled Halo players as I am, you can imagine what it's like to play Halo 4 with them when they get matched against team of people of my skill level. This is exactly why I put Halo 4 back on shelf and went back to BF3, if I can't play with my friends, the game isn't worth my time or money.

Was ranked/social system so damn hard to implement for 343i?


Agreed, most of my friends already quit H4 for that reason alone.

  • 12.11.2012 12:57 PM PDT