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Subject: So.... Lord of the rings...

Take me into your heart! Accept me as your savior! Nail me to the -blam!- cross, and let me be reborn!

Posted by: ArcGuard
This is what I'm seeing from you guys "They couldn't send the eagles in, they would have been seen and the nazguls would have gone after them" "they distracted the nazguls"


So... What's the problem? They could distract the nazguls, but couldn't fly in because they would have gained the attention of the nazguls....?????
Uh. When Frodo and Sam were in Mordor, Aragorn decided that they will distract Sauron and his forces from Frodo and Sam. So, Aragorn and Co. along with the Eagles, attacked Baradur and kept Saurons gaze away from Frodo and Sam.

When Sauron was destroyed, and there was no threat left anywhere around Mordor (save for the mountain), Gandalf flew in and rescued them. He couldn't have done that any other time because he would have been taken down with ease from Sauron.

This is so easily explained in the movies.

  • 12.11.2012 12:40 PM PDT

"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings; always darker, emptier, and simpler."

The entire time I read The Hobbit I was like "Oh, that's where that came from," or "Hey, look, it's that person!" Hopefully the movie will give me a similar experience.

  • 12.11.2012 12:42 PM PDT

Take me into your heart! Accept me as your savior! Nail me to the -blam!- cross, and let me be reborn!

Posted by: ArcGuard
But from what I've heard, hobbit movies don't stand up to the original trilogy. Which is unfortunate. The moves were very decent. I've watched them quite a few times.
MovieS? Only one is out so far, and it has received praise. Maybe not as high as the LotR trilogy, but still praise. Doesn't mean it's a bad movie because it doesn't live up to hype or LotR. And there are two more movies to go, with more characters and more events. More Sauron/Necromancer and more Smaug.

  • 12.11.2012 12:42 PM PDT


Posted by: God Of Men
Posted by: ArcGuard
This is what I'm seeing from you guys "They couldn't send the eagles in, they would have been seen and the nazguls would have gone after them" "they distracted the nazguls"


So... What's the problem? They could distract the nazguls, but couldn't fly in because they would have gained the attention of the nazguls....?????
Uh. When Frodo and Sam were in Mordor, Aragorn decided that they will distract Sauron and his forces from Frodo and Sam. So, Aragorn and Co. along with the Eagles, attacked Baradur and kept Saurons gaze away from Frodo and Sam.

When Sauron was destroyed, and there was no threat left anywhere around Mordor (save for the mountain), Gandalf flew in and rescued them. He couldn't have done that any other time because he would have been taken down with ease from Sauron.

This is so easily explained in the movies.

So clearly, two packs of eagles, one to distract sauron, and one to fly frodo to the mountain is just out of the question?


Sauron is so easily distracted that he wasn't constantly watching the only place the ring could be destroyed anyway? Why were there not GIANT guards at all of the entrances to any location to where the ring could be destroyed?

  • 12.11.2012 12:46 PM PDT


Posted by: ArcGuard
Might not be a plot hole in the books - is unexplained in the movies.


Am I to take it you must read the books to understand the events of the movies then?
Not necessarily, but I would say Peter Jackson left out about half of what was in the books. I mean, In the Fellowship there was no mention of Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs, but in the books, that was a pretty large part that took up several long chapters.

The detail you had mentioned just happened to be left out of the movies (I don't know why though, that seemed pretty obvious).

  • 12.11.2012 12:47 PM PDT

Take me into your heart! Accept me as your savior! Nail me to the -blam!- cross, and let me be reborn!

Posted by: ArcGuard

Posted by: God Of Men
Posted by: ArcGuard
This is what I'm seeing from you guys "They couldn't send the eagles in, they would have been seen and the nazguls would have gone after them" "they distracted the nazguls"


So... What's the problem? They could distract the nazguls, but couldn't fly in because they would have gained the attention of the nazguls....?????
Uh. When Frodo and Sam were in Mordor, Aragorn decided that they will distract Sauron and his forces from Frodo and Sam. So, Aragorn and Co. along with the Eagles, attacked Baradur and kept Saurons gaze away from Frodo and Sam.

When Sauron was destroyed, and there was no threat left anywhere around Mordor (save for the mountain), Gandalf flew in and rescued them. He couldn't have done that any other time because he would have been taken down with ease from Sauron.

This is so easily explained in the movies.

So clearly, two packs of eagles, one to distract sauron, and one to fly frodo to the mountain is just out of the question?


Sauron is so easily distracted that he wasn't constantly watching the only place the ring could be destroyed anyway? Why were there not GIANT guards at all of the entrances to any location to where the ring could be destroyed?
There isn't enough Eagles to have to packs to distract and escort Frodo in.

Sauron was distracted because he saw Aragorn, who was the heir of Isildur, the person who destroyed Sauron in the first place. He probably saw him as a pretty big threat.

  • 12.11.2012 12:47 PM PDT

Supreme Dictator, Industrial Polluter, Megalomaniac, Corrupt Politician, Underhanded Reprobate, Rainforest Ravager, Puppy Kicker, Oil Spill Coordinator, Holiday Hater, and an Insurance Salesman.

The VERY last thing Sauron expects is for the Ring to be destroyed. He fully expects a grand attack because he thinks someone will claim the Ring. He's prepared for that kind of thing.

  • 12.11.2012 12:48 PM PDT

Posted by: God Of Men
There isn't enough Eagles to have to packs to distract and escort Frodo in.

Sauron was distracted because he saw Aragorn, who was the heir of Isildur, the person who destroyed Sauron in the first place. He probably saw him as a pretty big threat.

How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?

And if he was distracted then, why could the eagles not get away and take frodo in when he was diracted then? These are NOT explained in the movies.

Where these eagles come from, how many of them there are, etc. We are not told in the movies WHY the eagles could not have just carried them in.



And what about guarding mt. doom? Did Sauron honestly not know that the ring would heard there from the beginning? Did he not know it could be destroyed there? If he did know, WHY was it not GUARDED HEAVILY?

These are not explained in the movies.

  • 12.11.2012 12:51 PM PDT


Posted by: ArcGuard
Posted by: God Of Men
There isn't enough Eagles to have to packs to distract and escort Frodo in.

Sauron was distracted because he saw Aragorn, who was the heir of Isildur, the person who destroyed Sauron in the first place. He probably saw him as a pretty big threat.

How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?


And what about guarding mt. doom? Did Sauron honestly not know that the ring would heard there from the beginning? Did he not know it could be destroyed there? If he did know, WHY was it not GUARDED HEAVILY?

These are not explained in the movies.


Im not going to elaborate further about the eagles because you would just rebut everything with "BUT ITS NOT IN THE MOVIES!", so instead I will answer your "why was mt doom not guarded" question. Easy, Sauron didn't even know that they were trying to destroy the ring. Even in the movies (extended edition) Gandalf tells Aragorn that "the idea that we wish to destroy the ring hasn't even crossed his mind" (or something like like). Sauron thought that Aragorn (or Pippin) has the ring and were going to use it against him. Yes his forces caught Frodo but they didn't find the ring so they had no notion that he was anything else but some kind of spy.

  • 12.11.2012 12:57 PM PDT

I'm going to invade your heart like a barn swallow high on milk chocolate and grandma love.

Fairness is only possible within the limited powers of man. Elsewhere, there is only chance.

Thus I refute thee.

^ Thus when a relatively small group attacked the Black Gate, Sauron was even convinced further that one of them had the Ring of Power. That's how I see it.

  • 12.11.2012 12:59 PM PDT

Take me into your heart! Accept me as your savior! Nail me to the -blam!- cross, and let me be reborn!

Posted by: ArcGuard
How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?
It's explained in the book. Part of the mysteries of movies like LotR, is that to fully understand the world you need to go deeper than the movies. You can't expect to have every single detail given out to you.


Posted by: ArcGuard
And if he was distracted then, why could the eagles not get away and take frodo in when he was diracted then? These are NOT explained in the movies.
They didn't know where Frodo was. It would have been too long and a hassle to have some Eagles flying around looking for Frodo. By the time they would have found them, Frodo would have been in Mount Doom already.


Posted by: ArcGuard
And what about guarding mt. doom? Did Sauron honestly not know that the ring would heard there from the beginning? Did he not know it could be destroyed there? If he did know, WHY was it not GUARDED HEAVILY?
As someone said, Sauron doesn't expect the ring to come to Mordor. He expected someone to take the ring and use it for their own personal gain.

  • 12.11.2012 1:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Palien90
Im not going to elaborate further about the eagles because you would just rebut everything with "BUT ITS NOT IN THE MOVIES!", so instead I will answer your "why was mt doom not guarded" question. Easy, Sauron didn't even know that they were trying to destroy the ring. Even in the movies (extended edition) Gandalf tells Aragorn that "the idea that we wish to destroy the ring hasn't even crossed his mind" (or something like like). Sauron thought that Aragorn (or Pippin) has the ring and were going to use it against him. Yes his forces caught Frodo but they didn't find the ring so they had no notion that he was anything else but some kind of spy.

So, you're telling me Sauron. The most evil of all evil bad guys, doesn't have a contingency plan?

A "Well, if this all fails, what do I fall back on" sort of situation?


If I have this valuable artifact. And it can only be destroyed in one way ever. Why would that NOT be on my agenda of things to take a look at and keep watch over?

He might not think that would be their plan, but SURELY he is aware that the ring COULD be destroyed that way, is he not? And if he is, why did he not have guards? And if he is not, that is a giant plot hole. Why is he not aware of this and gandolf is somehow?

  • 12.11.2012 1:02 PM PDT

Posted by: God Of Men
Posted by: ArcGuard
How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?
It's explained in the book. Part of the mysteries of movies like LotR, is that to fully understand the world you need to go deeper than the movies. You can't expect to have every single detail given out to you.

Then it is a plot hole in the movies, and there is nothing else to say. If something is not explained it is a hole. How can you possibly say otherwise?



Posted by: lI Maverick lI

Posted by: ArcGuard
This is what I'm seeing from you guys "They couldn't send the eagles in, they would have been seen and the nazguls would have gone after them" "they distracted the nazguls"


So... What's the problem? They could distract the nazguls, but couldn't fly in because they would have gained the attention of the nazguls....?????


The eagles were rather impartial and preferred to stay out of such affairs. From what I remember in The Hobbit, it took some convincing to get any cooperation.

Exactly my point. It is not explained in the movies. It is explained in the books. Therefore it is a hole in the plot of the movies.

[Edited on 12.11.2012 1:04 PM PST]

  • 12.11.2012 1:03 PM PDT

Take me into your heart! Accept me as your savior! Nail me to the -blam!- cross, and let me be reborn!

Posted by: ArcGuard
Posted by: God Of Men
Posted by: ArcGuard
How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?
It's explained in the book. Part of the mysteries of movies like LotR, is that to fully understand the world you need to go deeper than the movies. You can't expect to have every single detail given out to you.

Then it is a plot hole in the movies, and there is nothing else to say. If something is not explained it is a hole. How can you possibly say otherwise?
Because it's -blam!- common sense! Jesus, it's like talking to a -blam!- wall. The Eagles can't get in Mordor because Sauron will notice them and attack them on sight.

  • 12.11.2012 1:04 PM PDT

I'm going to invade your heart like a barn swallow high on milk chocolate and grandma love.

Fairness is only possible within the limited powers of man. Elsewhere, there is only chance.

Thus I refute thee.

Can't wait to see what "holes" people will develop from Tom Bombadil.

  • 12.11.2012 1:04 PM PDT

Supreme Dictator, Industrial Polluter, Megalomaniac, Corrupt Politician, Underhanded Reprobate, Rainforest Ravager, Puppy Kicker, Oil Spill Coordinator, Holiday Hater, and an Insurance Salesman.

Posted by: ArcGuard
Posted by: God Of Men
Posted by: ArcGuard
How do we KNOW there aren't enough eagles?
It's explained in the book. Part of the mysteries of movies like LotR, is that to fully understand the world you need to go deeper than the movies. You can't expect to have every single detail given out to you.

Then it is a plot hole in the movies, and there is nothing else to say. If something is not explained it is a hole. How can you possibly say otherwise?



Posted by: lI Maverick lI

Posted by: ArcGuard
This is what I'm seeing from you guys "They couldn't send the eagles in, they would have been seen and the nazguls would have gone after them" "they distracted the nazguls"


So... What's the problem? They could distract the nazguls, but couldn't fly in because they would have gained the attention of the nazguls....?????


The eagles were rather impartial and preferred to stay out of such affairs. From what I remember in The Hobbit, it took some convincing to get any cooperation.

Exactly my point. It is not explained in the movies. It is explained in the books. Therefore it is a hole in the plot of the movies.

This is going to happen any time you try to adapt a book for a movie. You simply cannot put everything in.

And Sauron not expecting the Ring to be destroyed is the WHOLE POINT! It's made abundantly clear that Sauron is completely unable to fathom someone being able to destroy the Ring. And he's completely right about that too.

  • 12.11.2012 1:07 PM PDT

The Hobbit movie is the prequel to the LOTR trilogy that is already out. There will be 3 parts to the Hobbit. So what I would recommend is see the Hobbit then watch the other LOTR movies after.

  • 12.11.2012 1:12 PM PDT

Posted by: JamesLongstreet
This is going to happen any time you try to adapt a book for a movie. You simply cannot put everything in.

And Sauron not expecting the Ring to be destroyed is the WHOLE POINT! It's made abundantly clear that Sauron is completely unable to fathom someone being able to destroy the Ring. And he's completely right about that too.

Nothing wrong with it happening. But saying there are no holes in the Movie plot is just asinine. There are. Just because someone has read the books and can explain it, doesn't mean the plot of the movies doesn't have holes. Practically every story has holes.

And if that's the whole point, it's a bad point for the books to be built around. Because the biggest bad guy of them all should have planned for everything, should he not have? He should have lost because of something he couldn't account for, not something he didn't account for, I say.

  • 12.11.2012 1:12 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

incredible movies. 10/10 would bang.

  • 12.11.2012 1:15 PM PDT


Posted by: ArcGuard

Posted by: Palien90
Im not going to elaborate further about the eagles because you would just rebut everything with "BUT ITS NOT IN THE MOVIES!", so instead I will answer your "why was mt doom not guarded" question. Easy, Sauron didn't even know that they were trying to destroy the ring. Even in the movies (extended edition) Gandalf tells Aragorn that "the idea that we wish to destroy the ring hasn't even crossed his mind" (or something like like). Sauron thought that Aragorn (or Pippin) has the ring and were going to use it against him. Yes his forces caught Frodo but they didn't find the ring so they had no notion that he was anything else but some kind of spy.

So, you're telling me Sauron. The most evil of all evil bad guys, doesn't have a contingency plan?

A "Well, if this all fails, what do I fall back on" sort of situation?


If I have this valuable artifact. And it can only be destroyed in one way ever. Why would that NOT be on my agenda of things to take a look at and keep watch over?

He might not think that would be their plan, but SURELY he is aware that the ring COULD be destroyed that way, is he not? And if he is, why did he not have guards? And if he is not, that is a giant plot hole. Why is he not aware of this and gandolf is somehow?


Did you watch pay attention to anything that anyone said in the movies? Gandalf says MULTIPLE TIMES that Sauron is literally obsessed with the ring, its ALL HE THINKS ABOUT. Now remember that in ROTK Pippin picks up the Palantir and Sauron gleans information out of him. What information? Well because his contact with Pippin was cut short all he got was that he was a hobbit and something about the ring. From this info he assumed that Pippin had the ring and was giving it to/allying with Men. Now remember the battle at the Black Gate, Sauron (assuming that the ring was with the enemy) EMPTIED mordor so he could get it back.

  • 12.11.2012 1:17 PM PDT

A competitive players main goal is to win.
A casuals main goal is to have fun regardless of whether that results in a win or loss.
It has nothing to do with individual skill or knowledge, it has to do with the reason you play.

I'm one of the few people in the earth who think Lord Of The Rings movies were boring.

Also, Super heroes are -blam!-. I don't understand how people here hype Marvel characters and Batman so often.

And I better zip up flamesuit, for having an opinion.

  • 12.11.2012 1:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Palien90
Did you watch pay attention to anything that anyone said in the movies? Gandalf says MULTIPLE TIMES that Sauron is literally obsessed with the ring, its ALL HE THINKS ABOUT. Now remember that in ROTK Pippin picks up the Palantir and Sauron gleans information out of him. What information? Well because his contact with Pippin was cut short all he got was that he was a hobbit and something about the ring. From this info he assumed that Pippin had the ring and was giving it to/allying with Men. Now remember the battle at the Black Gate, Sauron (assuming that the ring was with the enemy) EMPTIED mordor so he could get it back.


So, admittedly, all he could think about was the ring... But he couldn't think about the fact that the ring could be destroyed? I don't buy it.

If I'm a bear, and some human in an orange coat is giving out free delicious bear treats, am I not going to be a little skeptical about that?

If that's your argument, then the plot is horrible because the villain was horrible.

  • 12.11.2012 1:22 PM PDT

Well then, you somehow found my signature, nice job, so time for your prize.............FLOODIANS! ATTACK! Also, those socks do NOT make you look handsome.

The whole trilogy was about Man taking the reins of Middle Earth, which means Elves and the Eagles/other creatures have to step aside.

  • 12.11.2012 1:25 PM PDT

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