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  • Subject: Shooting At Connecticut Elementary School
Subject: Shooting At Connecticut Elementary School
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I like Cheese


Posted by: Kivell
Sad news, awful right before Chrismas.

  • 12.14.2012 9:45 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: AnonymousF22

You don't need a gun, no one does.

Says you. I need a gun if I want to put enough deer in my freezer to last a while. Same goes for hogs.

You and everyone else who has a gun just want them, you and them don't need a gun to live.
In fact, I do. Most of my food I get I kill with my .270 or .22, and a few with my shotgun. So yes, a gun is good for my survival.


Just because a bunch of old guys wrote on a piece of paper "the right to bare arms" doesn't mean that that "right" should still stand.


Those 'old guys' build the foundation upon which the USA stands. The Supreme Court disagrees with you too, bro.


Times have changed that "right" doesn't need to and shouldn't apply today.


Funny ,the Supreme Court ruled that it does.


There are a lot of people who use that outdated and backwards quote to own guns, even when they shouldn't ever be allowed to own a gun.


Who are you to say who should and shouldn't own a weapon? The current system in place for the purchase and sale of weapons isn't perfect, but it's not abhorrent either. Nothing we do is ever perfect, and there are always bound to be a few idiots bent on violence, and there's no law that';s going to stop them from doing evil. You should start looking at the human part of the violence equation; Alleviate that, and you're good. Don't keep blaming a forged piece of plastic and steel for the evils of man.

  • 12.14.2012 9:49 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: slayer2142
The homicide rate in USA is 4.2. Very close to the international average for developed countries.
Some countries less than the US by more than 1 homicide per capita:

Iran (3.0)
AFGHANISTAN (2.4)
Iraq (2.0)
Canada (1.6)
UK (1.2)
Ireland (1.2)
Portugal (1.2)
France (1.1)
China (1.0)
New Zealand (0.9)
Spain (0.8)
Germany (0.8)
Switzerland (0.7)
Japan (0.3)

You were saying?

  • 12.14.2012 9:54 PM PDT

Please do not send me group invites.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: slayer2142
The homicide rate in USA is 4.2. Very close to the international average for developed countries.
Some countries less than the US by more than 1 homicide per capita:

Iran (3.0)
AFGHANISTAN (2.4)
Iraq (2.0)
Canada (1.6)
UK (1.2)
Ireland (1.2)
Portugal (1.2)
France (1.1)
China (1.0)
New Zealand (0.9)
Spain (0.8)
Germany (0.8)
Switzerland (0.7)
Japan (0.3)

You were saying?
Do you not understand what "average" is? of course there are some with less.

  • 12.14.2012 9:58 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: MadMax888

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: slayer2142
The homicide rate in USA is 4.2. Very close to the international average for developed countries.
Some countries less than the US by more than 1 homicide per capita:

Iran (3.0)
AFGHANISTAN (2.4)
Iraq (2.0)
Canada (1.6)
UK (1.2)
Ireland (1.2)
Portugal (1.2)
France (1.1)
China (1.0)
New Zealand (0.9)
Spain (0.8)
Germany (0.8)
Switzerland (0.7)
Japan (0.3)

You were saying?
Do you not understand what "average" is? of course there are some with less.
I'm looking specifically at more developed nations, as the argument brought up was that the US is average for developed nations, which it is not.

  • 12.14.2012 9:59 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: xGHOST270x

Says you. I need a gun if I want to put enough deer in my freezer to last a while. Same goes for hogs.

I know lots of people who hunt game with bows and bring lots of them down.

People who hunt for game with guns would easily get permits anyway, so I don't know what your worrried about.

Sure here in Canada criminals get guns. However they shoot other criminals for a share of the drug prohibition pie. Hells Angles don't associate with loners, or disturbed kids with mental health issues, or psychopaths. They want smart people who can keep a low profile and not draw attention to their organization.

Few people say get rid of ALL guns, obviously people use them to hunt animals. But some restrictions on who can buy them might decrease the instances of shooting rampages by generally young, male, outcast depressed or sociopathic people in the community. If it could have made those 20 kids today not die wouldn't it be worth a shot?

Thinking that anyone should be able to buy a gun as some kind of 'human right' seems completely idiotic to me. Maybe 150 years ago when America was a frontier the right to bear arms made sense. Stubbornly clinging to 150 year old laws and being proud of it? That's like someone thinking being called a neanderthal is a complement.

  • 12.14.2012 10:01 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: xGHOST270x

Says you. I need a gun if I want to put enough deer in my freezer to last a while. Same goes for hogs.

I know lots of people who hunt game with bows and bring lots of them down.

People who hunt for game with guns would easily get permits anyway, so I don't know what your worrried about.

Sure here in Canada criminals get guns. However they shoot other criminals for a share of the drug prohibition pie. Hells Angles don't associate with loners, or disturbed kids with mental health issues, or psychopaths. They want smart people who can keep a low profile and not draw attention to their organization.

Few people say get rid of ALL guns, obviously people use them to hunt animals. But some restrictions on who can buy them might decrease the instances of shooting rampages by generally young, male, outcast depressed or sociopathic people in the community. If it could have made those 20 kids today not die wouldn't it be worth a shot?

Thinking that anyone should be able to buy a gun as some kind of 'human right' seems completely idiotic to me. Maybe 150 years ago when America was a frontier the right to bear arms made sense. Stubbornly clinging to 150 year old laws and being proud of it? That's like someone thinking being called a neanderthal is a complement.


Bows are only good out to 50-60 yards maximum. I have one, i should know.

You say we'd be able to 'easily' get permits. The way things are looking, even that is under the gun, so to speak, with current events and public outcry. People are viewing every gun as a menace to society, when that is blatantly false.

If you say that the problem lies with the people, why go after the tools they use. Fix the problem at the root with counseling and education, don't treat the aftermath with a knee-jerk reaction to ban certain types of weapons.

I agree that allowing anyone and everyone with two legs and a pulse the ability to buy firearm is ludicrous. That's exactly the last thing I'd ask for.

I sell firearms at work, and there's a pretty rigorous process in buying a gun, and even then, it's up to our discretion whether or not to sell the rifle to the individual. I've denied plenty of people the ability to buy a weapon in my store based on little things from how they act, to what they say, and even bad vibrations I get off of them. I try my damnedest to keep guns out of the hands of unstable or evil individuals.

I beleive it should be a right to own and operate a firearm, if you meet the criteria to do so. Aside from that , I see no benefit any new laws can give us regarding firearms, only a detriment that they will cause. Limiting the kind of firearms people have isn't going to stop people from doing evil, and banning ones that look scary, a la The Federal Assault Weapons Ban in the 90's, didn't do squat to alleviate gun violence.

I still beleive that focusing on the people and those like them causing these acts will be much more beneficial than banning firearms.

EDIT: Relevant Video is extremely relevant. This was posted yesterday.

[Edited on 12.14.2012 10:19 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2012 10:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: xGHOST270x

Says you. I need a gun if I want to put enough deer in my freezer to last a while. Same goes for hogs.


Few people say get rid of ALL guns, obviously people use them to hunt animals. But some restrictions on who can buy them might decrease the instances of shooting rampages by generally young, male, outcast depressed or sociopathic people in the community. If it could have made those 20 kids today not die wouldn't it be worth a shot?
Actually the guy stole the gun from his mother and shot up the school. This was a situation that would have really been impossible to prevent other then if his psychopathy was diagnosed and if he got help.

  • 12.14.2012 10:17 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: slayer2142

Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: xGHOST270x

Says you. I need a gun if I want to put enough deer in my freezer to last a while. Same goes for hogs.


Few people say get rid of ALL guns, obviously people use them to hunt animals. But some restrictions on who can buy them might decrease the instances of shooting rampages by generally young, male, outcast depressed or sociopathic people in the community. If it could have made those 20 kids today not die wouldn't it be worth a shot?
Actually the guy stole the gun from his mother and shot up the school. This was a situation that would have really been impossible to prevent other then if his psychopathy was diagnosed and if he got help.
Why would a kindergarden teacher need a gun?

Anyway, it's all good. If everyone shoots everyone else that's fine by me.

  • 12.14.2012 10:19 PM PDT

UnitedBands.net

My band and artist networking/information site. Check it out!

I think everyone is in this thread is missing the point that these were illegally acquired guns on the gunman's part.

You have to be 21 to even purchase a handgun...how did he get the gun?...if anything he got it from a criminal or the parents should be blamed for not keeping their guns locked up safely.



I own a couple of guns, including hand guns. I enjoy shooting for sport and occasionally hunting. If you walk into my house though, they are locked up, within reach if I ever needed them, but locked up. My handguns have individual locks on them they prevent them from being loaded, and I have the keys in a separate safe inside my gun cabinet.

People need to start taking more personal responsibility as apposed to blaming the system.

  • 12.14.2012 10:21 PM PDT

The Arizona massacre was only four months ago. The US needs to realize that people interpret teh second amendment as the right to bear AND fire arms. Their gun policies need serious reform and fast. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families who are suffering from the Connecticut shooting.

  • 12.14.2012 10:21 PM PDT

The Spartan Special Ops - Now with more LOLgasms!

Posted by: EnragedElite67
"The problem with quotes on the internet is 95% are made up." - Socrates

With how this thread is going, I am going to quote someone.

This person spoke in Denver after the Columbine in 1999.

America must stop this predictable pattern of reaction. When an isolated, terrible event occurs, our phones ring, demanding that the NRA explain the inexplicable.

Why us? Because their story needs a villain. They want us to play the heavy in their drama of packaged grief, to provide riveting programming to run between commercials for cars and cat food.

The dirty secret of this day and age is that political gain and media ratings all too often bloom upon fresh graves.

I remember a better day, when no one dared politicize or profiteer on trauma, We kept a respectful distance then, as NRA has tried to do now. Simply being silent is so often the right thing to do.

But today, carnage comes with a catchy title, splashy graphics, regular promos and a reactionary package of legislation. Reporters perch like vultures on the balconies of hotels for a hundred miles around. Cameras jockey for shocking angles, as news anchors race to drench their microphones in the tears of victims.

Injury, shock, grief and despair shouldn't be "brought-to-you by sponsors." That's Pronzography. It trivializes the tragedy, it abuses vulnerable people, and maybe worst of all, it makes the unspeakable seem commonplace.

And we're often cast as the villain.

That is not our role in American society, and we will not be forced to play it. Our mission is to remain a steady beacon of strength and support for the Second Amendment, even if it has no other friend on the planet. We cannot let tragedy lay waste to the most rare and hard-won human right in history

A nation cannot gain safety by giving up freedom. This truth is older than our country Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety Ben Franklin said that.

If you like your freedoms of speech and of religion, freedom from search and seizure, freedom of the press and of privacy, to assemble and to redress grievances, then you'd better give them that eternal bodyguard called the Second Amendment. The individual right to bear arms is freedom's insurance policy, not just for your children but for infinite generations to come.

That is its singular, sacred beauty, and why we preserve it so fiercely. - Charlston Heston


[Edited on 12.14.2012 10:23 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2012 10:22 PM PDT

Key

Something else to note to people who talk about the fact that "clearly these people aren't sociopaths or insane when they kill people because most people who get tried don't get an insanity plea": lots of the people who are sociopaths and insane who go on mass shootings either get shot by someone in the process or commit suicide at the end. Happens all the time. Just something to think about.

  • 12.14.2012 10:24 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: xGHOST270x

I beleive it should be a right to own and operate a firearm, if you meet the criteria to do so. Aside from that , I see no benefit any new laws can give us regarding firearms, only a detriment that they will cause. Limiting the kind of firearms people have isn't going to stop people from doing evil, and banning ones that look scary, a la The Federal Assault Weapons Ban in the 90's, didn't do squat to alleviate gun violence.

I still beleive that focusing on the people and those like them causing these acts will be much more beneficial than banning firearms.

EDIT: Relevant Video is extremely relevant. This was posted yesterday.
I agree with your words. Sadly I can't watch the video on this outdated computer at work.

I agree if the government put more money into mental health and mental health issues things may never have gotten to the point they did.

However, when you have a government that spends more on military (guns, equiptment, troops ect) than any other country (I heard more than the next 20 countries put together most of whom are allies), then where is the money for mental health awareness going to come from?

I love America and have always felt fairly safe when I go down, but seeing heavy military presence after the NFL draft and seeing all the drafted players put through military style drills churned my stomach. The integration of war with sports was so obviouis to me being from outside, but I doubt many Americans would think that's strange at all.

So, it's all fine and good to say more has to be done for mental health and more rescources need to be available for peoople but right now I can't see where these rescources are going to come from in America when they're still focused on the military and solving other peoples problems overseas.

  • 12.14.2012 10:25 PM PDT
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If they're not going to have stricter gun laws, only give civilians only very weak rifles/pistols. Nobody needs a bushmaster that is akin to an M16. Nobody needs that at all. I wish there was a weapon that could just freeze a human being, like some sort of electric paralyzing shock. Then that way you could defend yourself without killing.

  • 12.14.2012 10:29 PM PDT

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted.

Ní thagann ciall roimh aois.

Gach rud mo creideamh ea etfilu Dia.


Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: derka derka
And people are still against gun control.
I dont think it will ever happen. But does the average civilian really need assault weapons that can fire 100 rounds a minute? No the average shooter needs one so they can murder school children

You're an idiot. It's funny how people who intend on breaking the law i.e. murder don't really pay attention to laws i.e. making assault weapons illegal. Funny story really.

  • 12.14.2012 10:31 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: Godshatter
I agree with your words. Sadly I can't watch the video on this outdated computer at work.

I agree if the government put more money into mental health and mental health issues things may never have gotten to the point they did.

However, when you have a government that spends more on military (guns, equiptment, troops ect) than any other country (I heard more than the next 20 countries put together most of whom are allies), then where is the money for mental health awareness going to come from?

I love America and have always felt fairly safe when I go down, but seeing heavy military presence after the NFL draft and seeing all the drafted players put through military style drills churned my stomach. The integration of war with sports was so obviouis to me being from outside, but I doubt many Americans would think that's strange at all.

So, it's all fine and good to say more has to be done for mental health and more rescources need to be available for peoople but right now I can't see where these rescources are going to come from in America when they're still focused on the military and solving other peoples problems overseas.


I think our politicians still think we're in an arms race with Russia. We chould cut military spending in half, divert it to much worthier causes and still have the most badass and well-armed fighting force the world has ever seen. Alas, that is a rant for another thread on another day.

I'll be glad when we pull our happy ass out of Afghanistan and Iraq and start fixing the problems here at home, as they are plenty.

EDIT: Damn son, it's 12:30 where I'm at, what Job do you have that requires such hours, assuming you're CST, MT, EST, or PST times.

[Edited on 12.14.2012 10:34 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2012 10:32 PM PDT

The Spartan Special Ops - Now with more LOLgasms!

Posted by: EnragedElite67
"The problem with quotes on the internet is 95% are made up." - Socrates


Posted by: IlluminatiNWO
If they're not going to have stricter gun laws, only give civilians only very weak rifles/pistols. Nobody needs a bushmaster that is akin to an M16. Nobody needs that at all. I wish there was a weapon that could just freeze a human being, like some sort of electric paralyzing shock. Then that way you could defend yourself without killing.


You do know that compared to most hunting rifles, the round that the M-16 fires is relatively low power?

It fires a .223 caliber bullet, which is just slightly larger than a .22 long rifle.

Most hunting rifles are chambered in larger rounds that are far more devastating to flesh than what an M-16 can fire.

Even the AR-10 which is chambered in 7.62x51mm or .308 is bare minumum for Elk hunting.

Most people prefer to take a rifle chambered in 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 7.62x54r, or 8mm Mauser when hunting. All of these are exponentially more powerful than the round that M-16s/AR-15s fire.

  • 12.14.2012 10:33 PM PDT

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted.

Ní thagann ciall roimh aois.

Gach rud mo creideamh ea etfilu Dia.


Posted by: xGHOST270x

Posted by: Godshatter
I agree with your words. Sadly I can't watch the video on this outdated computer at work.

I agree if the government put more money into mental health and mental health issues things may never have gotten to the point they did.

However, when you have a government that spends more on military (guns, equiptment, troops ect) than any other country (I heard more than the next 20 countries put together most of whom are allies), then where is the money for mental health awareness going to come from?

I love America and have always felt fairly safe when I go down, but seeing heavy military presence after the NFL draft and seeing all the drafted players put through military style drills churned my stomach. The integration of war with sports was so obviouis to me being from outside, but I doubt many Americans would think that's strange at all.

So, it's all fine and good to say more has to be done for mental health and more rescources need to be available for peoople but right now I can't see where these rescources are going to come from in America when they're still focused on the military and solving other peoples problems overseas.


I think our politicians still think we're in an arms race with Russia. We chould cut military spending in half, divert it to much worthier causes and still have the most badass and well-armed fighting force the world has ever seen. Alas, that is a rant for another thread on another day.

I'll be glad when we pull our happy ass out of Afghanistan and Iraq and start fixing the problems here at home, as they are plenty.

It's not gonna happen 'till 2015 now. Funny how people thought electing Obama was going to change that. LOL!

  • 12.14.2012 10:34 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: xGHOST270x

I think our politicians still think we're in an arms race with Russia. We chould cut military spending in half, divert it to much worthier causes and still have the most badass and well-armed fighting force the world has ever seen. Alas, that is a rant for another thread on another day.

I'll be glad when we pull our happy ass out of Afghanistan and Iraq and start fixing the problems here at home, as they are plenty.

EDIT: Damn son, it's 12:30 where I'm at, what Job do you have that requires such hours, assuming you're CST, MT, EST, or PST times.
Agreed, and thus we can depart as friends.

I do evening shift at a crisis intervention house on the west coast, so it's 2235 here.

  • 12.14.2012 10:36 PM PDT

Every time there's a tragedy, people just leap at the chance to give their rights away. Makes me sad.

[Edited on 12.14.2012 10:38 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2012 10:37 PM PDT
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You know who wanted to cut military spending? Ron Paul. Who wasn't a nominee? Ron Paul. Anyways, the US won't cut military spending. We're too afraid to not be every where in the world.

  • 12.14.2012 10:38 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: xGHOST270x

I think our politicians still think we're in an arms race with Russia. We chould cut military spending in half, divert it to much worthier causes and still have the most badass and well-armed fighting force the world has ever seen. Alas, that is a rant for another thread on another day.

I'll be glad when we pull our happy ass out of Afghanistan and Iraq and start fixing the problems here at home, as they are plenty.

EDIT: Damn son, it's 12:30 where I'm at, what Job do you have that requires such hours, assuming you're CST, MT, EST, or PST times.
Agreed, and thus we can depart as friends.

I do evening shift at a crisis intervention house on the west coast, so it's 2235 here.


Ahh, that explains it. I got off work over two hours ago, and I'm dead tired. Damn finals and work. I think I sold 10 firearms today, half of them being semi-auto civilian M4's. Busy day today. Need sleep. Why the hell am i still on my computer.

EDIT: Caffine tends to do this. Damn you Sonic and your Happy Hour!

[Edited on 12.14.2012 10:40 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2012 10:39 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: Technoxious
Every time there's a tragedy, people just leap at the chance to give their freedoms away. Makes me sad.
But if you live somewhere where you only have 2 choices for who forms government (perhaps neither of them very trustworthy), how much freedom do you REALLY have?

Sorry, I'll rant about that another day.

  • 12.14.2012 10:40 PM PDT

The Spartan Special Ops - Now with more LOLgasms!

Posted by: EnragedElite67
"The problem with quotes on the internet is 95% are made up." - Socrates


Posted by: xGHOST270x

Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: xGHOST270x

I think our politicians still think we're in an arms race with Russia. We chould cut military spending in half, divert it to much worthier causes and still have the most badass and well-armed fighting force the world has ever seen. Alas, that is a rant for another thread on another day.

I'll be glad when we pull our happy ass out of Afghanistan and Iraq and start fixing the problems here at home, as they are plenty.

EDIT: Damn son, it's 12:30 where I'm at, what Job do you have that requires such hours, assuming you're CST, MT, EST, or PST times.
Agreed, and thus we can depart as friends.

I do evening shift at a crisis intervention house on the west coast, so it's 2235 here.


Ahh, that explains it. I got off work over two hours ago, and I'm dead tired. Damn finals and work. I think I sold 10 firearms today, half of them being semi-auto civilian M4's. Busy day today. Need sleep. Why the hell am i still on my computer.

EDIT: Caffine tends to do this. Damn you Sonic and your Happy Hour!


Where do you live, and is your place hiring?

I need to get out of California...

  • 12.14.2012 10:40 PM PDT