Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Shooting At Connecticut Elementary School
  • Subject: Shooting At Connecticut Elementary School
Subject: Shooting At Connecticut Elementary School
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Bungie doesn't like French on their site.


Posted by: italian templar
Something has to change here, how did we get to this point where a man can walk into a school loaded with guns and kills little kids?
This isn't the first time, sadly, school shootings aren't new. If someone wants to get a gun, they will get one. An estimated 2,000,000+ guns are in the US. This will happen again.

:\

  • 12.15.2012 8:14 AM PDT


Posted by: italian templar
What's the point then?
I'm just stating a fact that something needs to change. People in this world are getting more and more messed up. They are acting out in the worst possible ways. I did not bring up anything about banning guns, I don't care for all the politics that arguments brings up. All I said is something has to change, we need a change otherwise this kind of crap will keep happening.
Posted by: The U2 RoKKeR
The gun nuts are missing the point.


Posted by: italian templar
Something has to change here, how did we get to this point where a man can walk into a school loaded with guns and kills little kids?

Calm down, I'm agreeing with you. ]

[Edited on 12.15.2012 8:36 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2012 8:36 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

I'm not going to propose a master plan on how to get rid of guns, but all pro-gun people in this thread need to hear this, because they're shutting their ears on this topic.

If an insane person can walk into a store and buy a gun, there is something wrong with our system. I said this after the Gabby Giffords shooting, I said it after the Batman Shooting, and I'll say it again.

I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.

  • 12.15.2012 9:00 AM PDT


Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I'm not going to propose a master plan on how to get rid of guns, but all pro-gun people in this thread need to hear this, because they're shutting their ears on this topic.

If an insane person can walk into a store and buy a gun, there is something wrong with our system. I said this after the Gabby Giffords shooting, I said it after the Batman Shooting, and I'll say it again.

I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


Don't let crazy people have guns is already a thing but they can still get guns off the black market or the shady dude in the alleyway. Laws don't really put off people crazy enough to murder young children.

  • 12.15.2012 9:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


If we're going by this, where do we draw the line? How can we police this?

  • 12.15.2012 9:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: Mitochondrion

Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I'm not going to propose a master plan on how to get rid of guns, but all pro-gun people in this thread need to hear this, because they're shutting their ears on this topic.

If an insane person can walk into a store and buy a gun, there is something wrong with our system. I said this after the Gabby Giffords shooting, I said it after the Batman Shooting, and I'll say it again.

I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


Don't let crazy people have guns is already a thing but they can still get guns off the black market or the shady dude in the alleyway. Laws don't really put off people crazy enough to murder young children.
I haven't heard about the last two, but in the Gabby Giffords shooting, the gun was 100% legal. I also doubt that the Batman shooter bought an AR-15 off the black market.

Also, the whole "black market" excuse is a cop-out. Its easy to say that they got it from the black market, when in some of these cases they don't.

  • 12.15.2012 9:04 AM PDT

Join The Reach Asset a group I am very proud to be a leader of.


Posted by: Unanimate Objec

Posted by: sims3k
The people that shoot up these schools arent criminals anyway, theyre just mentally unstable people that happen to have got a hold of a few guns because they had some spare cash lying around.


The people that shoot up these schools arent criminals anyway, theyre just mentally unstable people



theyre just mentally unstable people



I will debate to death this claim. You can't use 'mentally unstable' as a failsafe point. This man could have had perfect control of his faculties, but only the Lord knows what possessed him to commit the mass murder spree that he did.

You think Hitler was 'mentally unstable'? If that were true, there's no way he could have gotten away with what he did. The non-Jewish Germans would've kicked him out of their country if they thought he was mentally unstable.

Everyone who infringes on someone else's rights is a criminal in some way or form. Period.


You're joking right? If you think Hitler wasn't mentally unstable then you've been greatly misinformed.

  • 12.15.2012 9:17 AM PDT

Guns aren't the problem, they're are a symptom of the problem.

  • 12.15.2012 9:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-u s-39-in-uk.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-la nd-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-d eaths/260189/




nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.

  • 12.15.2012 9:26 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: IcyWind

Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


If we're going by this, where do we draw the line? How can we police this?
I don't know what would work, but I know it needs to start with the process of when they got the gun, rather than when he is already shooting in the school, store, movie theater, etc.

We also can't blame American society. We can't blame video games, and we sure as hell can't blame the victims. There are people this crazy in every country. The problem lies with the guns.

A few ideas would be very intrusive background checks, interviews with federal officials before the gun is bought, etc.

  • 12.15.2012 9:26 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: puck88
nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.
Be careful using the words "assault rifle". Gun nuts will try to convince you that there is no such thing as an assault rifle, making these two guns the same.


http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/springfield_trapdoor_ca rbine_lg.jpg
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/ferfrans/FERFRANS_Piston _SOAR_LaRue_Tactical_Mounts_8_30_08.jpg

  • 12.15.2012 9:32 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: IcyWind

Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


If we're going by this, where do we draw the line? How can we police this?
I don't know what would work, but I know it needs to start with the process of when they got the gun, rather than when he is already shooting in the school, store, movie theater, etc.

We also can't blame American society. We can't blame video games, and we sure as hell can't blame the victims. There are people this crazy in every country. The problem lies with the guns.

A few ideas would be very intrusive background checks, interviews with federal officials before the gun is bought, etc.



I think you can in the sense we treat each other like trash. Not just the suspect devaluing the kids lives down to nothing, but at some point I'd bet he wasn't like this. After enough abuse and neglect its possible to turn out like that.

  • 12.15.2012 9:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: puck88

Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: IcyWind

Posted by: Gruntzilla24
I think mentally healthy, well intentioned Americans should be able to defend themselves, but we can't ignore an obvious problem in the system. Don't be ignorant.


If we're going by this, where do we draw the line? How can we police this?
I don't know what would work, but I know it needs to start with the process of when they got the gun, rather than when he is already shooting in the school, store, movie theater, etc.

We also can't blame American society. We can't blame video games, and we sure as hell can't blame the victims. There are people this crazy in every country. The problem lies with the guns.

A few ideas would be very intrusive background checks, interviews with federal officials before the gun is bought, etc.



I think you can in the sense we treat each other like trash. Not just the suspect devaluing the kids lives down to nothing, but at some point I'd bet he wasn't like this. [b]After enough abuse and neglect its possible to turn out like that.[b]
He also killed his mom, so its very possible that is true.

  • 12.15.2012 9:44 AM PDT


Posted by: puck88
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-u s-39-in-uk.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-la nd-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-d eaths/260189/




nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.


Wouldn't work in the US. Most of our gun related deaths are from suicide, then gang related violence. And gangs don't use legal weapons usually so they can't be linked to the crime.

  • 12.15.2012 9:48 AM PDT

Original Account-Sargeantomeg4-Intrepid Mythic Member-01/06/08 to 02/29/12


Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: puck88
nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.
Be careful using the words "assault rifle". Gun nuts will try to convince you that there is no such thing as an assault rifle, making these two guns the same.


http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/springfield_trapdoor_ca rbine_lg.jpg
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/ferfrans/FERFRANS_Piston _SOAR_LaRue_Tactical_Mounts_8_30_08.jpg
Let's go through this again.

This isn't an assault rifle.

This is an assault rifle.

Can you tell me the difference?

  • 12.15.2012 10:03 AM PDT


Posted by: puck88
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-u s-39-in-uk.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-la nd-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-d eaths/260189/




nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.

Hardly any crime is committed with automatic weapons, let alone legal ones. There is less than 500 automatic weapon kills a year, most of which are illegally bought or stolen. They are really hard to conceal unless used in a gang war or in a car

[Edited on 12.15.2012 10:15 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2012 10:14 AM PDT


Posted by: GohanRules 12

Posted by: puck88
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-u s-39-in-uk.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-la nd-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-d eaths/260189/




nobody needs to be armed with an assault rifle; the restrictions at hand right now are way too loose.

Hardly any crime is committed with automatic weapons, let alone legal ones. There is less than 500 automatic weapon kills a year, most of which are illegally bought or stolen. They are really hard to conceal unless used in a gang war or in a car

There have only been 2 crimes with legally bought automatic weapons in the last 75 years. Both were single homicides.

  • 12.15.2012 10:50 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: RockdaleRooster
Guns aren't the problem, they're are a symptom of the problem.
Really? Show me the last time someone knifed 30 people to death in a day in America. Or the last time someone knifed 20 people to death in a day in America. Even if you can find one instance, it's most likely an exception to the rule that those are not nearly as common as mass shootings.

  • 12.15.2012 11:28 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: Rayzor1995

Posted by: DeclinedA1

Posted by: Rayzor1995

Posted by: dazarobbo
Map of Mass Shootings In U.S. Since 2005.

There's so many...
They are almost all on the east coast or in California...

Not a single mass shooting in South Dakota. (At least since 05)



Probably because there is a greater density of population near the coasts.
Showing that it's the people who are creating the problem, not the guns.
Nope. Show me the map of mass murders not involving guns. Is it nearly as dotted? The answer is no.

  • 12.15.2012 11:32 AM PDT

So you went to the trouble of clicking on my profile, either to send a group invite or hate message, or to check my Halo stats and call me a BK. I like Peanut Butter Waffles.

Absolutely horrible. My condolences go out to all who are affected.

  • 12.15.2012 11:40 AM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: RockdaleRooster
Guns aren't the problem, they're are a symptom of the problem.
Really? Show me the last time someone knifed 30 people to death in a day in America. Or the last time someone knifed 20 people to death in a day in America. Even if you can find one instance, it's most likely an exception to the rule that those are not nearly as common as mass shootings.

Knives aren't the problem, they're a symptom of the problem. The problem is we have a society where it is easy to obtain anything that can make killing a person easier. A gun by itself is not a sentient killing machine. It is just a tool. It is the people that commit these crimes. 99.999999% of people with guns will not go out an shoot people at random just for fun. Those that would have some kind of a mental problem. They cannot seek mental healthcare because they do not see it as a viable option. We need to make mental healthcare as easily accessible as guns are.

We also need to advance our society to the point where we remove the stigma associated with mental problems. We view those who suffer from them as different from us and believe them to be violent murderers. While some mental disorders can cause violence most do not. We need to allow those with mental disorders the same role we'd grant a person sick with the flu. However one can recover from the flu relatively quickly while a mental disorder can last a life time. Something needs to be done to make mental health care more accessible as well as furthering what it can do.

Guns, knives, videogames, and TV are not the problem. The problem is we are a society that does not want to take blame; we want to place it. It's so much easier to blame the guy who takes his rifle to the range and shoots off some rounds ever Sunday, and even the gun itself. But the problem is we as a society are quick to blame it on things that are symptoms of the problem while ignoring the problem that is mental health and how easily we sweep these events under the rug. It's like we expect this kind of behavior from people afflicted with mental disorders. We need to stop blaming these things and blame ourselves for making it expected that mentally challenged people will do this, and instead try to teach everyone that no one should do things like this.

  • 12.15.2012 11:49 AM PDT

If you completely eliminate guns in the midwest at least there will be an increase in deer. Then more and more people will hit them and can die. Most shootings are with illegal guns anyways.

  • 12.15.2012 11:49 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: RockdaleRooster

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: RockdaleRooster
Guns aren't the problem, they're are a symptom of the problem.
Really? Show me the last time someone knifed 30 people to death in a day in America. Or the last time someone knifed 20 people to death in a day in America. Even if you can find one instance, it's most likely an exception to the rule that those are not nearly as common as mass shootings.

Knives aren't the problem, they're a symptom of the problem. The problem is we have a society where it is easy to obtain anything that can make killing a person easier. A gun by itself is not a sentient killing machine. It is just a tool. It is the people that commit these crimes. 99.999999% of people with guns will not go out an shoot people at random just for fun. Those that would have some kind of a mental problem. They cannot seek mental healthcare because they do not see it as a viable option. We need to make mental healthcare as easily accessible as guns are.
Completely and 100% agreed with this portion. They are a tool. And yes, people obviously kill people. But guns still facilitate murder. There is a direct and obvious causal link between guns and the people that die because a bullet was shot out of a gun and into their bodies (in case anyone rages at the phrase "and the people they kill"). Guns do NOT kill people, people DO kill people, but as I said, guns facilitate the increased amount of people killed.

Look at a place like England. Their gun restrictions are tenfold that of the US, and their homicide per capita rate is nearly 3 less than the US's. That's a significant amount. Then look at all these other developed countries in Europe. Portugal, Germany, France, Spain. All of them have stricter gun laws than the US and all of them have significantly lower homicide rates per capita.

I know correlation != causation, but that doesn't mean it's not a relevant statistic. Correlation still means something even if it doesn't lend a definitive answer to a query or problem.

  • 12.15.2012 12:01 PM PDT

You're mocking me, aren't you?

Here are the names of those killed at the school, as provided by state police: Charlotte, 6; Daniel, 7; Rachel Davino, 29; Olivia, 6; Josephine, 7; Ana, 6; Dylan, 6; Dawn Hocksprung, 47; Madeleine, 6; Catherine, 6; Chase, 7; Jesse, 6; James, 6; Grace, 7; Anne Marie Murphy, 52; Emilie Parker, 6; Jack, 6; Noah, 6; Caroline, 6; Jessica, 6; Avielle, 6; Lauren Russeau, 30; Mary Sherlach, 56; Victoria Soto, 27; Benjamin, 6; Allison, 6.

  • 12.15.2012 4:04 PM PDT

Anyone see the picture of the killer? I would not expect someone like him to do that.

  • 12.15.2012 4:22 PM PDT