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This topic has moved here: Subject: The sex of a character, and stereotypes
  • Subject: The sex of a character, and stereotypes
Subject: The sex of a character, and stereotypes

Quick as a razor, sharp as a bullet.

Copypasted from Writers' Corner.

I've only ever written one female-led story, and that was Diggers, my contest entry of moons ago that won the dystopia/utopia contest. It irks me slightly that that's the only story with a female protagonist I've ever written, but usually the sex of a character is an afterthought, and doesn't play a significant role in their character and arc. If there are any women involved, their sex plays a major role in their arc, or at least that's how it's been for most of my major stuff.

Should a character's sex define much about them? In my fantasy series, women would play a slightly minor role to men, traditionally, so I don't have any major female characters right now... although Nina springs to mind, and she's a fantastic character, a kindly, old orc who helps Damon find his feet after he leaves his city, whose sex does not play an overt role in her character or arc.

This debate reminds me very strongly of a positively-discriminatory stereotype that pervades just about every art and media form these days: the strong woman. You name any piece of fiction with a female character in it, I can all but guarantee you her character traits are: headstrong, brave, fearless, but hiding a vulnerable side. I understand that this is a good role model for women to aspire to, and flies in the face of what was probably a bigger trope years before, of a weak-willed, incapable woman who played second fiddle to male protagonists. But it's just so frustratingly cliche, and the fact that it shapes most fictional women with any kind of prominence within their narratives is maddening. Stories aren't simply beacons whose Mary Sues (the trope of the flawless woman) and wise-cracking heroes are models, they are a means of analysis on a plethora of the broadest philosophical topics. It's time female characters starting reflecting all women rather than the paragons, just as male characters do.


On a final note, I think the only reason I would have a female main character in the world of The Prince would be to overcome sexist adversity. Surely that in itself is sexist, and something should be done about that. I, and perhaps we all, should strive to shatter that trope.


Thoughts?

  • 12.14.2012 4:10 PM PDT
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Inappropriate. Went a little to far with the butt hole tearing.

The gender role that a character adopts is pertinent to the story. It affects thoughts, actions, and relationships.

  • 12.14.2012 4:14 PM PDT

Wow, just wow!

In real life there are many differences between men and women, regardless of what is politically or socially acceptable.

Gender in a story should affect characters in similar ways. Women should (generally, there are exceptions that can be utilized if well-presented) be more emotional and more perceptive.

Men (once again, there are exceptions) should generally be more brash and independent.

It's not some sexism or discrimination, it's just the way it is. There are differences, and it would make a story unreal if it went radically against it without good reason.

  • 12.14.2012 4:20 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: Pyrotrain
In real life there are many differences between men and women, regardless of what is politically or socially acceptable.

Gender in a story should affect characters in similar ways. Women should (generally, there are exceptions that can be utilized if well-presented) be more emotional and more perceptive.

Men (once again, there are exceptions) should generally be more brash and independent.

It's not some sexism or discrimination, it's just the way it is. There are differences, and it would make a story unreal if it went radically against it without good reason.


He has a point. People say it's stereotypical, but, after all, stereotypes are there for a reason. Trying to change something that's fairly accurate for no other reason than to break "sexism" is almost sexism itself.

  • 12.14.2012 4:24 PM PDT

Quick as a razor, sharp as a bullet.

How many of you realise sex and gender are two different things?

Posted by: swvjdirector
It's not some sexism or discrimination, it's just the way it is. There are differences, and it would make a story unreal if it went radically against it without good reason.

I'd always have a good reason for a character acting differently after the beginning of the story. That's what character development is.

He has a point. People say it's stereotypical, but, after all, stereotypes are there for a reason. Trying to change something that's fairly accurate for no other reason than to break "sexism" is almost sexism itself.
It's not sexist. It's just an annoying trope. I would argue it's actually anti-sexist in the blurring of gender lines, but, as someone in one private group in which I posted this pointed out, it actually promotes masculinity in women, diminishing their femininity and insinuating that it's inferior.

  • 12.14.2012 4:31 PM PDT

My troll sense is tingling.

Might as well put my response here.

As someone whose protagonist for their major project is a woman, I have often thought about this. When I look back at when it began, the character was a lot like the cliche you describe (side-note: I hate the term Mary Sue. It's meaningless). Now the character has much more depth and also psychology interesting. Does her sex feed into her arc? Yes but it's really only a cause that roots to and from her story and one of the key themes; Humanity. It's definitely an arc not just about ideals.

There are quite a few other females in that project and really one has their gender played with as a shadow archetype to the protagonist.

This topic reminds me of a Q&A with Joss Whedon; When he was asked why he focuses so much on female characters, he responded with "Because you're still asking that question".

  • 12.14.2012 4:33 PM PDT

|\|||\|J4 5P4r74|\| 2

Well, the Hunger Games has a female protagonist and its doing pretty well, so I think it is more about the content of the book and if it is trying to portray the girl as too obsessed with proving themselves.

  • 12.14.2012 4:33 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

I think an awareness of gender and the way it affects the individual is really important for good characterisation, because it is one of the most dominant forces governing our day-to-day relationships. I struggle to see how anybody can relate to, appreciate or believe a character without gender.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 4:52 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 4:52 AM PDT