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Subject: America, open your eyes

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Posted by: DarkBen64
UK:

Guns are banned unless you have explicit licences explaining that you use them for hunting, farming or sport.

Works so far.


You're a beautiful person, this was my exact response to this thread, and it was sat there, as the first comment, waiting for me to quote.

<3

  • 12.16.2012 8:47 AM PDT

Great minds discuss ideas

Average minds discuss events

Small minds discuss people

No, most of the people who don't want gun control use the Constitution as a sheild for their cause. They just want to have their guns for their own purposes.
Posted by: Cheeseoid
It's just ridiculous to think that there are people in the country who don't want any gun restrictions because it goes against a 200+ year old document written in mind for people in that time.

Also, generalizations aren't a smart tactic for a debate. I seriously doubt that every person who is religious wants no gun control. There's probably a good chunk of them who want strict gun control, and some who want no guns at all.
Then again, most of these people follow the bible...

  • 12.16.2012 8:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Garshne
Which is why I keep saying you need a more capable police force and better border security.


Wow, you and I agree on something.

Look, I agree that we need better border security, a more capable police force, and maybe 1 or 2 armed security guards for schools.

But the type of gun control most people talk about is insane/pointless
Well the thing I see you Americans complain about is how the police can't be trusted and the government can't be trusted.

Well okay, it seems like the best solution here is to get a better police force so that you don't feel so unsafe as to need a gun; so that there isn't this implied undercurrent of crime, corruption and violence.

It's only after the criminal culture has been abolished can America seriously consider viable strategies to introduce sensible and effective gun laws that are an improvement on the current laws. Without the fear of threat we can think clearly on the purpose of firearms and decide what is needed and what isn't, and how to control these weapons so as to prevent their misuse.

Trust me, I'm a geographer.

  • 12.16.2012 8:49 AM PDT

BrAdLeY

Wow great thread. Good read

  • 12.16.2012 8:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.
I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered


I'd say this is pretty bad.
And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening


No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?
I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse

[Edited on 12.16.2012 8:53 AM PST]

  • 12.16.2012 8:52 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Garshne
Which is why I keep saying you need a more capable police force and better border security.


Wow, you and I agree on something.

Look, I agree that we need better border security, a more capable police force, and maybe 1 or 2 armed security guards for schools.

But the type of gun control most people talk about is insane/pointless
Well the thing I see you Americans complain about is how the police can't be trusted and the government can't be trusted.

Well okay, it seems like the best solution here is to get a better police force so that you don't feel so unsafe as to need a gun; so that there isn't this implied undercurrent of crime, corruption and violence.

It's only after the criminal culture has been abolished can America seriously consider viable strategies to introduce sensible and effective gun laws that are an improvement on the current laws. Without the fear of threat we can think clearly on the purpose of firearms and decide what is needed and what isn't, and how to control these weapons so as to prevent their misuse.

Trust me, I'm a geographer.


And here's where we disagree, There will always be crime therefor we will always need guns.

There are hundreds of millions of people in the US and only a few thousand cops, and even if we had more cops you know what they say: "When seconds count police are minutes away.

In my opinion I think gun control in America is pretty good with a few very minor changes needed.

  • 12.16.2012 8:56 AM PDT

"You are the last of your kind: bred for combat, built for war. You're the master of any weapon, pilot of any vehicle, and fear no enemy"

Please tell me how criminals are going to obey the new laws.

[Edited on 12.16.2012 9:17 AM PST]

  • 12.16.2012 8:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Garshne
Which is why I keep saying you need a more capable police force and better border security.


Wow, you and I agree on something.

Look, I agree that we need better border security, a more capable police force, and maybe 1 or 2 armed security guards for schools.

But the type of gun control most people talk about is insane/pointless
Well the thing I see you Americans complain about is how the police can't be trusted and the government can't be trusted.

Well okay, it seems like the best solution here is to get a better police force so that you don't feel so unsafe as to need a gun; so that there isn't this implied undercurrent of crime, corruption and violence.

It's only after the criminal culture has been abolished can America seriously consider viable strategies to introduce sensible and effective gun laws that are an improvement on the current laws. Without the fear of threat we can think clearly on the purpose of firearms and decide what is needed and what isn't, and how to control these weapons so as to prevent their misuse.

Trust me, I'm a geographer.


And here's where we disagree, There will always be crime therefor we will always need guns.

There are hundreds of millions of people in the US and only a few thousand cops, and even if we had more cops you know what they say: "When seconds count police are minutes away.

In my opinion I think gun control in America is pretty good with a few very minor changes needed.
Like I said, as an improvement on existing laws in order to make sure they're not being misused.

That ratio of police officers to normal citizen is alarming, by the way. It is genuinely alarming.


go to bed garshne, its 3 am, ur drunk.

[Edited on 12.16.2012 9:02 AM PST]

  • 12.16.2012 9:00 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.
And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening


No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?
I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse


Nope Cumbria

  • 12.16.2012 9:00 AM PDT

Great minds discuss ideas

Average minds discuss events

Small minds discuss people

True, but guess what gets cut in every budget for us? The fact is, we spend so much money for healthcare (it accounts for 30-40% of our national budget) treating the terminally sick and old people who will die soon, yet we cut back spending on education, police, and fire departments. Fix the budget, fix our social problems.
Posted by: Garshne
That ratio of police officers to normal citizen is alarming, by the way. It is genuinely alarming.

  • 12.16.2012 9:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.[/quote]And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening


No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?
I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse


Nope Cumbria
Its still less than what goes on in the US and the nutjob who had the guns had a license. It is still extremely hard to get a gun in the UK

  • 12.16.2012 9:04 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake

Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Garshne
Which is why I keep saying you need a more capable police force and better border security.
[/quote]

Wow, you and I agree on something.

Look, I agree that we need better border security, a more capable police force, and maybe 1 or 2 armed security guards for schools.

But the type of gun control most people talk about is insane/pointless[/quote]Well the thing I see you Americans complain about is how the police can't be trusted and the government can't be trusted.

Well okay, it seems like the best solution here is to get a better police force so that you don't feel so unsafe as to need a gun; so that there isn't this implied undercurrent of crime, corruption and violence.

It's only after the criminal culture has been abolished can America seriously consider viable strategies to introduce sensible and effective gun laws that are an improvement on the current laws. Without the fear of threat we can think clearly on the purpose of firearms and decide what is needed and what isn't, and how to control these weapons so as to prevent their misuse.

Trust me, I'm a geographer.


And here's where we disagree, There will always be crime therefor we will always need guns.

There are hundreds of millions of people in the US and only a few thousand cops, and even if we had more cops you know what they say: "When seconds count police are minutes away.

In my opinion I think gun control in America is pretty good with a few very minor changes needed.
Like I said, as an improvement on existing laws in order to make sure they're not being misused.

That ratio of police officers to normal citizen is alarming, by the way. It is genuinely alarming.


Well one part of it is the downtrodden economy forcing local governments to cut back resulting in less law enforcement jobs.

I don't know what country you live in but we've got quite a bit of police here, I agree we need a little bit more but not much.

In all honesty its not gun control that will reduce crime its eliminating gangs and securing our border and public buildings.

  • 12.16.2012 9:05 AM PDT


Posted by: CND AAA Beef
Some good reading.

Here's a small sampling of the 2009 Homicides by Firearm:

Canada: 173.
Netherlands: 55.
Germany: 188.
Australia: 30.
UK: 46.
Denmark: 15.
USA: 10,300.
Columbia: 12,808.
Mexico: 8,804.
Venezuela: 11,115.

How the hell is the USA such an outlier compared to other developed countries? When your annual firearm homicides are closer to Columbia than Canada, it's pretty freaking clear that you have a serious gun violence problem.

And I hate to break it to you, but arming teachers is not going to stop school shootings. I can't comprehend how passing out 9mms to elementary school teachers can be considered a positive outcome to this horrible shooting by some people.

Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.

  • 12.16.2012 9:05 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.[/quote]And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening[/quote]

No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?[/quote]I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse


Nope Cumbria
Its still less than what goes on in the US and the nutjob who had the guns had a license. It is still extremely hard to get a gun in the UK


And lets not forget that the UK's normal crime rate is increasing whereas the US is decreasing.

I think you blokes over there need to do what I already recommended for the US, Secure your damn borders and focus on the criminals not the law abiding gun owners.

  • 12.16.2012 9:07 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: IonicWaif5269
Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.


US gun ownership has been increasing whereas crime has been decreasing.

  • 12.16.2012 9:08 AM PDT

it's just me against the world

Nope, because if your goddamned country ain't buyin' gun's, ain't buyin' cheeseburgers, and ain't prayin' to god erryday. yous gots lots to learn buddy.

  • 12.16.2012 9:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: IonicWaif5269
Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.


US gun ownership has been increasing whereas crime has been decreasing.


Just crime in general?

  • 12.16.2012 9:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.[/quote]And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening[/quote]

No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?[/quote]I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse


Nope Cumbria
Its still less than what goes on in the US and the nutjob who had the guns had a license. It is still extremely hard to get a gun in the UK


And lets not forget that the UK's normal crime rate is increasing whereas the US is decreasing.

I think you blokes over there need to do what I already recommended for the US, Secure your damn borders and focus on the criminals not the law abiding gun owners.
Not by much i imagine. Crime will always be here. Its a worthy trade off to stop shootings. At least in the UK. It will be much harder for action to be taken in the US but something will get done eventually. Whether this recent shooting starts the plan of action or they wait until more people die. It is inevitable

  • 12.16.2012 9:10 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: Mastergee

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: IonicWaif5269
Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.


US gun ownership has been increasing whereas crime has been decreasing.


Just crime in general?


Yes.

  • 12.16.2012 9:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: Mastergee

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: IonicWaif5269
Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.


US gun ownership has been increasing whereas crime has been decreasing.


Just crime in general?


Yes.


We're not talking about crime in general, we're talking about people being murdered by guns.

  • 12.16.2012 9:11 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.[/quote]And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening[/quote]

No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?[/quote]I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse


Nope Cumbria
Its still less than what goes on in the US and the nutjob who had the guns had a license. It is still extremely hard to get a gun in the UK


And lets not forget that the UK's normal crime rate is increasing whereas the US is decreasing.

I think you blokes over there need to do what I already recommended for the US, Secure your damn borders and focus on the criminals not the law abiding gun owners.
Not by much i imagine. Crime will always be here. Its a worthy trade off to stop shootings. At least in the UK. It will be much harder for action to be taken in the US but something will get done eventually. Whether this recent shooting starts the plan of action or they wait until more people die. It is inevitable


Not really, Gun ownership is growing in the US, and despite what you see from the mass media and facebook, The majority of Americans don't favor gun control.

The NRA's subscriptions at an all time high and crime is at an all time low.

You may not agree with Americans on this, But were still the most tight-nit alliance in the world.

[Edited on 12.16.2012 9:14 AM PST]

  • 12.16.2012 9:14 AM PDT
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"The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. Politics are fickle, they change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in." - Snake


Posted by: Mastergee

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: Mastergee

Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: IonicWaif5269
Sorry dear Americans, but stats doesn't lie. Of course these numbers arent directly comparable because these countries have different populations, but the point still stands. America DOES have a big problem with weapons.


US gun ownership has been increasing whereas crime has been decreasing.


Just crime in general?


Yes.


We're not talking about crime in general, we're talking about people being murdered by guns.


Gun related homicides are included in "General crime"

  • 12.16.2012 9:15 AM PDT

"If you want to test a man's character, give him power" -- Abraham Lincoln

Your assumptions about government overthrow are wrong OP. First of all, the military is not permitted to fire on civilians. Second, even if they did, it is very unlikely that the entire military would be unified under and extreme enough government, I think.

  • 12.16.2012 9:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: Beyond hope
Gun related homicides are included in "General crime"


Your logic is so awesome I can't continue this discussion, there is just no contending with your logic relating to this argument.

  • 12.16.2012 9:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Posted by: Beyond hope

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Beyond hope
Why in the world do non-Americans care about our gun laws?

If you don't live here you probably don't know what your talking about.

I don't know or care about Germany's gun laws because I'm not German, So I suggest you do the same.[/quote]I don't think anybody cares about Germany's gun laws because they don't have events where 20 children are murdered[/quote]

I'd say this is pretty bad.[/quote]And the guns were legally acquired. Still doesn't happen as much as in the US and there are other countries in Europe that have stricter gun laws and you don't have these massacres happening[/quote]

No, The man stole them from his father.

Also, I can bet that I can find multiple mass shootings in pretty much every country on earth.

But what would you do to stop this?[/quote]I believe the last mass school shooting in the UK was Dunblane. Handguns were banned after that. And what would i do? i would try and slowly deglorify the gun culture and fetish that people in the US have . And Put stricter gun laws in slowly. Obviously taking every gun away immediately will not work. And better border security wouldn't hurt. If not this will only get worse[/quote]

Nope Cumbria
Its still less than what goes on in the US and the nutjob who had the guns had a license. It is still extremely hard to get a gun in the UK


And lets not forget that the UK's normal crime rate is increasing whereas the US is decreasing.

I think you blokes over there need to do what I already recommended for the US, Secure your damn borders and focus on the criminals not the law abiding gun owners.
Not by much i imagine. Crime will always be here. Its a worthy trade off to stop shootings. At least in the UK. It will be much harder for action to be taken in the US but something will get done eventually. Whether this recent shooting starts the plan of action or they wait until more people die. It is inevitable


Not really, Gun ownership is growing in the US, and despite what you see from the mass media and facebook, The majority of Americans don't favor gun control.

The NRA's subscriptions at an all time high and crime is at an all time low.

You may not agree with Americans on this, But were still the most tight-nit alliance in the world.
On a side note the NRA has not tweeted for 2 days. I thought they would at-least try to defend the second amendment. Silence doesn't really look good

  • 12.16.2012 9:17 AM PDT