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Subject: The thing you just DON'T UNDERSTAND

If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friends.

The Flood Theory of Deterioration: q(p)=(qi)e^(-p/r)

Where q(p) is the quality of the thread as a function of p posts, (qi) is the inital quality of the first post, p is the amount of posts and r is the e-peen of the original poster.

As I've stated in most gun threads. Banning isn't the answer for America. They should look to Canada more so. They aren't banned here. Some, such as fully-automatic rifles are heavily restricted, and others such as handguns require a special license and evaluation. You also require a license for basic semi-auto rifles, but the evaluation and testing is not as strict as handguns.

The main thing though that separates Canada from the U.S. on gun related crimes is the attitude towards them. Every Canadian I know that owns guns, and there are many, see them as a tool. A tool used for defence, hunting or sport. From my experience talking with Americans about it, many of them see it the same way.

The problem comes in, that there are also a disproportionate number of people that see them as solutions to problems. This is where the issue comes in. When people start to see a gun as a solution to them being wronged in some way by someone else. The reason banning wouldn't work is with this ideology behind them people have also used heavily armoured bulldozers, semi-trucks and various other things to do the job as well as firearms. This needs to be worked on. This is what needs to change. Restricting firearms more than they are may help, but banning them will not.

[Edited on 12.16.2012 11:46 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2012 11:45 PM PDT

You could use the old "Spoon Argument". Owning a spoon doesn't make you fat.

  • 12.16.2012 11:47 PM PDT

Posted by: KUZOKU85
Oh yeeh, just make a dismissive insult without any explanation or reasoning behind it. You totes know how to argue.

And I disproved his point that I quoted, as in its just as easy for a knife wielding maniac to go on a rampage as it is for a gun wielding maniac, in fact its easier because knives are easier to come by. Yes, he only injured the kids, but maybe he wasn't feeling up to his crazy self that day. If he sliced off ears and fingers, he could just as easily have stabbed them in the chest and killed them.
Have a read of this.

  • 12.16.2012 11:49 PM PDT

"Your eyes are full of hate, forty-one. That's good. Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength"


Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: KUZOKU85
Oh yeeh, just make a dismissive insult without any explanation or reasoning behind it. You totes know how to argue.

And I disproved his point that I quoted, as in its just as easy for a knife wielding maniac to go on a rampage as it is for a gun wielding maniac, in fact its easier because knives are easier to come by. Yes, he only injured the kids, but maybe he wasn't feeling up to his crazy self that day. If he sliced off ears and fingers, he could just as easily have stabbed them in the chest and killed them.
Have a read of this.


I stand by what I said, I don't think its that his weapon was ineffective, I believe it was that he was ineffective. The guy in china attacked nearly as many children as the gunman in connecticut did, if he had been using the knife "right" so to speak, they would have been deaths. Its true that guns are easier to kill with, but his claim was that its not as easy to go on a rampage with a knife or a vehicle. It's not the tool, its the person behind the tool, with the will to commit the act. If you take a knife into an enclosed area like that school, you could do just as much damage as the gun, if you drive your truck into the local mall you could run over just as many people etc.

  • 12.17.2012 12:26 AM PDT

Key

"It's true that guns are easier to kill with, but his claim was that its not as easy to go on a rampage with a knife or a vehicle."

If that isn't he biggest contradiction I've ever seen I don't know what is. Now, a rampage is the same thing as just killing lots of people (in this context), agreed? So you're saying while its easier to kill with a gun than knife or car, that doesn't mean it's harder to kill loads of people with a knife or car.

"It's true that racecars are faster than bicycles and skateboards, but that doesn't mean that bicycles and skateboards would lose in a 3 mile race."

Your logic is broke beyond all measure and is not supported at all by any statistics. In fact, it's very much hurt by them. Chinas population is easily 3x that of the US. Why aren't there mass knifings (the knifing and killing of 4 or more people) over in China anywhere close to as often as there's mass shootings (the shooting and killing of 4 or more people) in America? Why does no countries death-by-knife rate per capita come anywhere close to the death-by-gun rate per capita in the US? England's average knife-murder rate per 100,000 (no more than 2.44 for any of the last 4 years) is nothing compared to the US's 9.00 gun-murder rate per 100,000. Find me any developed country with a knife-murder rate anywhere near the US's gun-murder rate.

  • 12.17.2012 3:35 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: KUZOKU85

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: KUZOKU85

Posted by: Muffin enforcer


However, a gun is the easiest outlet to kill - you can't go on a stabbing rampage or vehicular rampage as easily as you can with an assault rifle.



You were saying?
Your post made 0 points, and did not disprove anything said by Muffin enforcer. Nice try, but you have no idea how to argue.


Oh yeeh, just make a dismissive insult without any explanation or reasoning behind it. You totes know how to argue.

And I disproved his point that I quoted, as in its just as easy for a knife wielding maniac to go on a rampage as it is for a gun wielding maniac, in fact its easier because knives are easier to come by. Yes, he only injured the kids, but maybe he wasn't feeling up to his crazy self that day. If he sliced off ears and fingers, he could just as easily have stabbed them in the chest and killed them.
Linking one story about one mass knifing that killed next to nobody of the 22 "knifed" to disprove the notion that mass murdering with a knife is easier than with a gun is not a valid argument. You linked one instance in which one person ineffectively knifed a large group of kids. Several instances in which many people each effectively knifed several people would be the way to disprove him. So again: you have no idea how arguments or logic works.

  • 12.17.2012 3:39 AM PDT

Feel free to send me messages, please be willing to wait 6-8 years for a reply.

1-7 hours if you at least tried to make it readable.

Immediately if you are Yax, Telec, or legendary.

Never if you are mythic, you guys smell funny.

Why does every gun nut seem to think anyone who calls for more gun control wants a complete ban of gun ownership in the United States?



  • 12.17.2012 3:47 AM PDT

I'm your biggest fan!


Posted by: da bomb drop
Why does every gun nut seem to think anyone who calls for more gun control wants a complete ban of gun ownership in the United States?

Exactly. They just need to tighten up their regulations. Stop making it so that just about anyone can get hold of a gun.

Also, that whole spoon argument thing is a load of crap. Yes, we all know guns don't kill people, but they sure as hell make it a lot easier. You can't go shoot up a school if you don't have a gun in the first place. Sure, it can be argued that if they really wanted to, they could still get a gun like that guy in Scandinavia a year or two ago, but the fact that that was such an isolated incident and America's facing public shootings seemingly every three months or so indicates that you're making it way too easy for incredibly lethal weapons to get into the wrong hands.

It's OK. Just let a few more massacres happen before you decide to change anything.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 5:22 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 5:21 AM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
"It's true that guns are easier to kill with, but his claim was that its not as easy to go on a rampage with a knife or a vehicle."

If that isn't he biggest contradiction I've ever seen I don't know what is. Now, a rampage is the same thing as just killing lots of people (in this context), agreed? So you're saying while its easier to kill with a gun than knife or car, that doesn't mean it's harder to kill loads of people with a knife or car.

"It's true that racecars are faster than bicycles and skateboards, but that doesn't mean that bicycles and skateboards would lose in a 3 mile race."

Your logic is broke beyond all measure and is not supported at all by any statistics. In fact, it's very much hurt by them. Chinas population is easily 3x that of the US. Why aren't there mass knifings (the knifing and killing of 4 or more people) over in China anywhere close to as often as there's mass shootings (the shooting and killing of 4 or more people) in America? Why does no countries death-by-knife rate per capita come anywhere close to the death-by-gun rate per capita in the US? England's average knife-murder rate per 100,000 (no more than 2.44 for any of the last 4 years) is nothing compared to the US's 9.00 gun-murder rate per 100,000. Find me any developed country with a knife-murder rate anywhere near the US's gun-murder rate.


Interesting.


Tell me, How much effort would it take for me to go rent a large SUV/Hummer. Drive to Washington DC, and just get up on the sidewalks and start running people over without batting an eyelash? It would actually be quite simple. And, depending on the time of day, I could get waaaaaaaay more than 28 people under a large SUV before the cops came and took me out. Especially since I'd be completely mobile.

There are things that are almost as effective weapons as guns. A gun is also far easier to hear than a knife on a quiet street.

  • 12.17.2012 6:22 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

They call me graland.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
In fact, it's very much hurt by them. Chinas population is easily 3x that of the US. Why aren't there mass knifings (the knifing and killing of 4 or more people) over in China
>>>

  • 12.17.2012 6:33 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

Why people can't get along. It's not that hard.

This is for the user above.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 6:40 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 6:38 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: Garland
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
In fact, it's very much hurt by them. Chinas population is easily 3x that of the US. Why aren't there mass knifings (the knifing and killing of 4 or more people) over in China
>>>
Forgive me. I meant as many mass knifings over in China.

  • 12.17.2012 12:36 PM PDT

"Only a fool dismisses something outside of his realm of experience as an impossibility"

Find me at
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I think only certain guns should be outlawed. People can still buy guns, but only certain guns. No automatic guns should be allowed. When the hell will you really need an automatic gun to proect yourself or to hunt?

  • 12.17.2012 12:43 PM PDT

I don't agree. The UK is very similar to the US.

  • 12.17.2012 12:45 PM PDT
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I like games and music

Possible Solution:

>Be a much more kind country.
>School bullying and elitist behavior should be frowned upon and try to be fixed.
>Mental healthcare needs a revamp to the point of actually helping, not isolating.
>Parents need to be parents and love their kids from the beginning of their lives and detect these things, at the same time not accusing.

  • 12.17.2012 12:59 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.

The thing about situations like these is that people often look at it from their point of view, what would they do if THEY were in that position, which makes it rather hard to actually understand other cultures.

  • 12.17.2012 1:03 PM PDT
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Writer's Corner
6/15/2011 11:39 PM: bobcast [2597260] issued a 3 day ban expiring on 6/18/2011 11:39 PM.
Reason: A Bungie.net Forum Moderator has banned you for violating the code of conduct and/or rules of the forum in the thread below
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=61704535
Inappropriate. Went a little to far with the butt hole tearing.

Okay, so what we are saying is that guns are addictive?

  • 12.17.2012 1:06 PM PDT

On the Left

Godshatter: I can go all the way with someone without being attracted to them.
CamCamm: How does that work?
Godshatter: I'm easily aroused by anything that moves. It's a curse.
Brain says 'No, that's ugly', body says 'ugly is fine with me'.


Posted by: Josh Badlands
Remember guns dont kill people, dangerous minorities do.

hhmmm I was about to call you out. But thought about it. What do you mean by, minorities! hmmmmmmmmm!!!?

*holds mouse over report button*

  • 12.17.2012 1:07 PM PDT

You just lost the game. Now facepalm yourself for clicking this :P

People are stupid, and not just Americans...
Truest statement I've seen posted in a long time. I solute you, sir.

  • 12.17.2012 1:09 PM PDT

You just lost the game. Now facepalm yourself for clicking this :P

>Be a much more kind country.
One does not simply "be a more kind country".

  • 12.17.2012 1:10 PM PDT

1. Half-Life 2
2. Mass Effect 3
3. Mass Effect 2
4. Tie between Halo 3 and CoD4
5. Medal of Honor or Spec Ops: The Line

"You can be larger than life. But you can't be larger than death."


Posted by: Delta SWE
Possible Solution:

>Be a much more kind country.
>School bullying and elitist behavior should be frowned upon and try to be fixed.
>Mental healthcare needs a revamp to the point of actually helping, not isolating.
>Parents need to be parents and love their kids from the beginning of their lives and detect these things, at the same time not accusing.
If only any of these were possible in this idiotic country.

  • 12.17.2012 1:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: Marinade
As I've stated in most gun threads. Banning isn't the answer for America. They should look to Canada more so. They aren't banned here. Some, such as fully-automatic rifles are heavily restricted, and others such as handguns require a special license and evaluation. You also require a license for basic semi-auto rifles, but the evaluation and testing is not as strict as handguns.

The main thing though that separates Canada from the U.S. on gun related crimes is the attitude towards them. Every Canadian I know that owns guns, and there are many, see them as a tool. A tool used for defence, hunting or sport. From my experience talking with Americans about it, many of them see it the same way.

The problem comes in, that there are also a disproportionate number of people that see them as solutions to problems. This is where the issue comes in. When people start to see a gun as a solution to them being wronged in some way by someone else. The reason banning wouldn't work is with this ideology behind them people have also used heavily armoured bulldozers, semi-trucks and various other things to do the job as well as firearms. This needs to be worked on. This is what needs to change. Restricting firearms more than they are may help, but banning them will not.
Pretty much this. People can own as many guns as they want over here, but we have checks in place to make sure that only the right people are getting hold of them.

I think another issue is that US gun laws are so fragmented from state to state. People could potentially smuggle certain firearms from a state with weak laws to a state with stronger laws. If people are doing it with fireworks, I wouldn't be surprised if they're doing it with firearms. Here they are the same across all provinces.

  • 12.17.2012 1:18 PM PDT

http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=10110176

Guns are really really getting looked down upon, so now hard core gun enthusiasts are pointing the finger at mental health.

Bull-blam!-. I'm sure every human on earth could fall under some category of having a mental illness. Mental illnesses are handed out like candy at Halloween. That's not to say that those diagnosed aren't legitimately ill, but anyone who goes to a doc with a problem will leave with some tag to their name. Usually by default, it'll be depression. If not that, then bi-polar.

Again, not that those aren't REAL illnesses, but the way in which people are diagnosed is just too loose.

No matter how you spin it, had those guns not been so readily available, this act more than likely may have no happened, at least not at the school. Rampaging with a gun is 1 million times easier than rampaging with a knife or ax or pepper spray or whatever.

It's not that people shouldn't have guns, but perhaps we should rethink about how guns are kept. Much like owning wild animals. You can have them, but facilities must be up to code. I'd prefer it if all guns had to be stored at a main storage facility for some US locations (more urban), not in the home.

When people lose it, they grab the closest thing. The location of the gun, imo, is the most dangerous aspect. In home for many locations is just too dangerous to society.

  • 12.17.2012 1:18 PM PDT

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