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Subject: Lawyers engage in the most unethical profession.


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: x Foman123 x

It is not for a lawyer to decide whether his client is guilty. It is for the jury to decide. The lawyer's job is to work as hard as he can for his client. Refusing to do so is unethical.


No, but ethics should come into play when selecting clients. One of my good friends worked for the top defense attorney in the US, based in Dayton, OH. He related to me the nature of some of the people they managed to keep out of prison. They were the worst kinds of people.


It doesn't matter to a lawyer what kind of person you are, it matters whether you did whatever it is that you were accused of.

  • 12.17.2012 12:32 PM PDT

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Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
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Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: x Foman123 x

It is not for a lawyer to decide whether his client is guilty. It is for the jury to decide. The lawyer's job is to work as hard as he can for his client. Refusing to do so is unethical.


No, but ethics should come into play when selecting clients. One of my good friends worked for the top defense attorney in the US, based in Dayton, OH. He related to me the nature of some of the people they managed to keep out of prison. They were the worst kinds of people.


It doesn't matter to a lawyer what kind of person you are, it matters whether you did whatever it is that you were accused of.


In a nutshell, yes, but things are never that simple. I can't sit here and relay to you situations that I really shouldn't know myself, but some of the "extenuating circumstances" I've been told were...grotesque.

  • 12.17.2012 12:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: x Foman123 x
It is not for a lawyer to decide whether his client is guilty. It is for the jury to decide. The lawyer's job is to work as hard as he can for his client. Refusing to do so is unethical.


No, but ethics should come into play when selecting clients. One of my good friends worked for the top defense attorney in the US, based in Dayton, OH. He related to me the nature of some of the people they managed to keep out of prison. They were the worst kinds of people.
That's what defense lawyers are there for. We work in a profession where making personal judgments about the nature of a client is not only inappropriate, but irrelevant and borderline unethical.

Keep in mind that for every "bad" person that a defense lawyer manages to keep out of jail, there are hundreds or thousands of "good" people who benefit from the rules of law that lead to that decision. Where one person may be acquitted of one particular accusation, society as a whole benefits.

This is unquestionably the truth, and if a person feels that they cannot square their own morals with representing a "bad" client, they likely have a poor view of the big picture, and should stay out of law school entirely. Or go into real estate law or something.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong; there are times when a lawyer's personal biases mean they should not represent a particular client. For example, if a guy killed the lawyer's family or something, the lawyer should not defend him. But aside from preexisting biases, it is not our place to decide whether to represent clients or potential clients based on our own judgments about their innocence or guilt in a particular case.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 12:39 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 12:34 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: x Foman123 x
This is unquestionably the truth, and if a person feels that they cannot square their own morals with representing a "bad" person, they likely have a poor view of the big picture and should stay out of law school entirely. Or go into real estate law or something.


I guess it's a good thing I went into engineering instead.

  • 12.17.2012 12:36 PM PDT

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lol I pretty much just summoned Foman that was funny.

  • 12.17.2012 12:39 PM PDT

Country: United States.
State: Pennsylvania.
County: Warren.
I graduated from high school on June-11-2011. I'm 19 right now. I'm turning 20 in December. I like playing video games, and board games. I like reading Sci-Fi, and World War II novels, and what not.

"There is nothing better in the world than being better at a video game than someone else....oh wait"

To me lawyers should only be for the people that are not 100% guilty. If you have some person that walks up to 5 random people in a crowded area with cameras everywhere. And that person kills those 5 people then a cop nearby arrest that person. With all the witnesses and cameras he's 100% guilty. There is nothing he can say to defend himself. Having a lawyer for that person is pointless and a waste of time. Once that person is arrested either send him to prison or give him the death penitently. There is no need for trial.

Also look at the whole OJ Simpson thing. They had enough evidence to know he was guilty. But due to his lawyer and the morons that were his jury. He was found innocent.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 12:54 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 12:41 PM PDT
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Also, if a client confesses to a lawyer that he's guilty, the lawyer will usually advise him to plead guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence.

Most of the time, the prosecution has the better case. Unless the lawyer has enough evidence and testimonials to cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution, or the prosecution and the police made significant errors during the investigation that call into question the accuracy and validity of their evidence, the lawyer will seek a plea bargain.

Not every trial is an OJ Simpson trial.

  • 12.17.2012 12:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: BerzerkCommando
Also look at the whole OJ Simpson thing. They had enough evidence to knew he is guilty. But due to his lawyer and the morons that were his jury. He was found innocent.
Glad you brought this up.

OJ, who I think we can all agree did indeed commit that murder, was nevertheless found not guilty thanks to superb representation from his legal team. But remember that just a short while later, he was found "liable" and ordered to pay millions of dollars in restitution to the families of the victims. His personal life has been ruined since, and Simpson is currently sitting in prison for the next 35 years on a robbery conviction.

In the meantime, the not-guilty verdict resulted in the firings of several racist LAPD officers, much better chain-of-custody controls within the LAPD, and better DNA collection procedures, all of which have not only benefited the state of California in later murder prosecutions, but have also since saved arguably hundreds or thousands of innocent citizens from improper accusations, convictions, and police tactics.

This is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. Anyone who wants to argue that the OJ Simpson trial resulted in a net loss to society instead of a net benefit is, IMHO, not very well-informed.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 12:52 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 12:49 PM PDT

Hi! How you doin'?

Sometimes, all you need are a couple giant explosions to get you through the day.

How do they know they're guilty? Isn't that the point?

  • 12.17.2012 12:51 PM PDT

+1 for you good sir.


Posted by: Garland
Criminals have rights, too, and lawyers are just doing their job.

Innocent until proven guilty.

  • 12.17.2012 12:55 PM PDT

1. Half-Life 2
2. Mass Effect 3
3. Mass Effect 2
4. Tie between Halo 3 and CoD4
5. Medal of Honor or Spec Ops: The Line

"You can be larger than life. But you can't be larger than death."

I miss these shows.

  • 12.17.2012 12:59 PM PDT


Posted by: x Foman123 x
The judicial system only works when you have zealous and competent advocacy on BOTH SIDES.

It is not for a lawyer to decide whether his client is guilty. It is for the jury to decide. The lawyer's job is to work as hard as he can for his client. Refusing to do so is unethical.

It would be ridiculously easy for me to prove conclusively that the reason you have all of the freedoms that you enjoy today is because of the exact lawyers that you are criticizing right now. Literally every single major freedom you have from warrantless searches, racial/ethnic profiling, forced confessions, and a whole lawbook full of other examples is the result of a defense lawyer who was doing an excellent job of defending an unquestionably "guilty" client.

Show some respect.
Did Foman just take the trollbait? And stale trollbait too?
Rose already admitted in an earlier thread that "his trolling has gotten stale," so he kinda confessed to being a troll.

  • 12.17.2012 1:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: john5550
I miss these shows.
"Denny Crane"

  • 12.17.2012 1:34 PM PDT

1. Half-Life 2
2. Mass Effect 3
3. Mass Effect 2
4. Tie between Halo 3 and CoD4
5. Medal of Honor or Spec Ops: The Line

"You can be larger than life. But you can't be larger than death."


Posted by: CND AAA Beef

Posted by: john5550
I miss these shows.
"Denny Crane"
"Donny Crane" I loved that scene.

  • 12.17.2012 1:36 PM PDT

"If you treat people right, they will treat you right - ninety percent of the time."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

"No soldier should be honored for doing what is expected."
-John-117

Who cares if Rose was trolling? It's still a good topic.

Posted by: XxhargbeastxX

Posted by: x Foman123 x
The judicial system only works when you have zealous and competent advocacy on BOTH SIDES.

It is not for a lawyer to decide whether his client is guilty. It is for the jury to decide. The lawyer's job is to work as hard as he can for his client. Refusing to do so is unethical.

It would be ridiculously easy for me to prove conclusively that the reason you have all of the freedoms that you enjoy today is because of the exact lawyers that you are criticizing right now. Literally every single major freedom you have from warrantless searches, racial/ethnic profiling, forced confessions, and a whole lawbook full of other examples is the result of a defense lawyer who was doing an excellent job of defending an unquestionably "guilty" client.

Show some respect.
Did Foman just take the trollbait? And stale trollbait too?
Rose already admitted in an earlier thread that "his trolling has gotten stale," so he kinda confessed to being a troll.

  • 12.17.2012 1:37 PM PDT

Please do not send me group invites.


Posted by: warrior527
It's still a good topic.
Hardly. Lawyers do more than just trials. They write help laws; review wills; mitigate divorces; a ton of things.

In the US, everyone has the right to a fair trial. It's not a fair trial if the defendant doesn't have proper legal council [aside from representing one's self] and the prosecution does.

  • 12.17.2012 1:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

It isn't about trying to get the guilty to walk free, it is about trying to make sure justice is properly served. To make sure this doesn't happen. Or, perhaps the lawyer is morally opposed to the death penalty and believes in reforming criminals. Naturally they would defend their clients to ensure the death penalty is off the table. There are many reasons to be a defense lawyer, and very few of those reasons are unethical.

  • 12.17.2012 1:41 PM PDT

"If you treat people right, they will treat you right - ninety percent of the time."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

"No soldier should be honored for doing what is expected."
-John-117

..When did I argue that lawyers were only involved with trials? I was talking about the ethical side to a lawyer, and about whether or not their opinions on clients should really matter.

Posted by: MadMax888

Posted by: warrior527
It's still a good topic.
Hardly. Lawyers do more than just trials. They write help laws; review wills; mitigate divorces; a ton of things.

In the US, everyone has the right to a fair trial. It's not a fair trial if the defendant doesn't have proper legal council [aside from representing one's self] and the prosecution does.

  • 12.17.2012 1:43 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)

I considered being a lawyer, than I realize that my ADD meant that reading long contracts, lists of laws, and so on would be very difficult and not worth the cost. Plus I would defend my client by using ad hominems to the other person's lawyer. Definitely not my kind of job.

  • 12.17.2012 2:01 PM PDT

Banned and proud of it.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Innocent until proven guilty

  • 12.17.2012 2:21 PM PDT

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