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This topic has moved here: Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?
  • Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?
Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?

I was surprised today to learn that "Gun control discussions are political threads". Can someone explain this to me please?

  • 12.17.2012 12:28 PM PDT

I'm guessing because gun laws are governed by which political party is in power?

I'm a Brit - don't hate on me if I'm wrong.

  • 12.17.2012 12:30 PM PDT

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  • 12.17.2012 12:31 PM PDT

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
Bricypoo's custom user title = Ultra Lame Thread Maker


Posted by: True Underdog
Only after we ban Bricypoo.

Last I knew they were fine, I had started threads that got quite popular in the past about it. Asking, what people thought about gun control. Never got locked...

  • 12.17.2012 12:31 PM PDT

Posted by: EvilTaffyapple
I'm guessing because gun laws are governed by which political party is in power?

I'm a Brit - don't hate on me if I'm wrong.
So are speed limits and municipal noise laws. Are they political?

  • 12.17.2012 12:31 PM PDT

Who am I?

mah twitter

I guess talking about laws counts as political discussion.

  • 12.17.2012 12:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Der Todesengel
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Does it really matter?

  • 12.17.2012 12:36 PM PDT

Seems pretty clear cut to me. A political discussion is a discussion about politics. If you're having a hard time identifying that line, it's probably best to stroll in another conversational direction. There is a lot to talk about here. Stick to games. That's usually safe. Do you like video games? Discuss...

  • 12.17.2012 12:36 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

How on earth could you think otherwise? Of course it's political, especially given the context of current events.

My only question was whether the rules had been suddenly changed without my knowledge. Nice to know they weren't.

  • 12.17.2012 12:37 PM PDT

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
How on earth could you think otherwise?
Because I've never seen a gun control discussion make any mention of political parties or candidates...?

  • 12.17.2012 12:39 PM PDT

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I always took it to be conversations to which there is only moral-compass disagreements, which never tend to end very nicely, simply because nobody can ever agree. Often devolves into flamewars.

I don't think it's as clear cut as specifically all politics, but I guess there's a certain degree of needing to moderate, for lack of a better term, how potentially heated such discussions can get.

  • 12.17.2012 12:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

You must be kidding. Or sheltered. Either way, Gun Control is an extremely political topic, now more than ever.
Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
How on earth could you think otherwise?
Because I've never seen a gun control discussion make any mention of political parties or candidates...?

  • 12.17.2012 12:40 PM PDT

Posted by: SonicJohn
I don't think it's as clear cut as specifically all politics, but I guess there's a certain degree of needing to moderate, for lack of a better term, how potentially heated such discussions can get.
Absolutely, the discussions can get heated and certainly require moderation. That is not being questioned.

The same point could be made for Halo vs. CoD discussions. I don't think anyone would say that those are political, though.

My point is... Labelling these discussions as political makes them immediately against the rules in all cases. In fact, this is one of the few black-and-white rules we have.

I just never saw it as such a black-and-white topic.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 12:43 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 12:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: SonicJohn
I don't think it's as clear cut as specifically all politics, but I guess there's a certain degree of needing to moderate, for lack of a better term, how potentially heated such discussions can get.
Absolutely, the discussions can get heated and require moderation. That is not being questioned.

The same point could be made for Halo vs. CoD discussions. I don't think anyone would say that those are political, though.
But this site is for a company that makes--and by extension to that--games, not about the economical state of the planet, so that sort of conversation is a given here.

I suppose it's geared to moral-compass discussions based around real-world issues that cannot be agreed upon (and frankly, have no purpose to them beyond the debate itself).

  • 12.17.2012 12:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Cheeto666
You must be kidding. Or sheltered. Either way, Gun Control is an extremely political topic, now more than ever.
Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
How on earth could you think otherwise?
Because I've never seen a gun control discussion make any mention of political parties or candidates...?
Let's make sure you aren't confusing the words "political" with "controversial". They both mean very different things.

  • 12.17.2012 12:45 PM PDT

@spawn031

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Posted by: SonicJohn
I suppose it's geared to moral-compass discussions based around real-world issues that cannot be agreed upon (and frankly, have no purpose to them beyond the debate itself).
This is what makes it political in my eyes. Anyone can debate vs threads: Xbox vs PS3, CoD vs Halo etc, but relating it to real world politics is where the line is drawn.

Godwin's Law for bungie.net: The longer an online discussion goes with the potential of politics, the chance it grows into a lock/ban increases to 1.

  • 12.17.2012 12:46 PM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra

Posted by: DeeJ
A political discussion is a discussion about politics.
This. The encouragement and inclusion of political discussion.

  • 12.17.2012 12:52 PM PDT

Key

IMO, locking all gun control topics on-sight is silly. The real problem comes when people start bringing up political parties because that's a polarized topic in which no real discussion can be had.

"Abortion is wrong! Go republicans!"
"No it's not! Go democrats!"

Nobody's views can change, no arguments successfully rebutted, etc.

However, gun laws seem to transcend political party lines and rather become more of a social debate about what we should do to help society. Things like marijuana use, abortion, etc. are very personal things that do not affect society as a whole, but guns are more of a societal issue. When an incident occurs with guns, it's reacted to by a wide range of people.

As noted, outlawing the discussion of guns is just silly. I was in damn-near every one of those gun threads yesterday and not once did anyone that I saw, even -blam!- Rose, bring up any political party (democrats, republicans) or a ideology* (liberal, conservative). You're a mod. You're a person. Not a robot. Use the common sense and judgement that you have and a robot doesn't to be able to discern what should and should not be considered okay to talk about rather than "NO ALL GUN THREADS ARE BAD GO AWAY!"

*I believe I called myself a flaming lib in one of the "don't take away my guns" threads to show that even I, someone very much for gun control, was against getting rid of the second amendment altogether. But it was in passing, didn't spark a partisan or ideological discussion, and wasn't inflammatory in any way.

  • 12.17.2012 12:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Der Todesengel
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I'm sure there is an "ATF.net" or some other related forum where you discuss gun control to your hearts content.

I prefer to talk about games on a gaming site. Not politics or the end of the world.

  • 12.17.2012 12:56 PM PDT

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
I'm sure there is an "ATF.net" or some other related forum where you discuss gun control to your hearts content.

I prefer to talk about games on a gaming site. Not politics or the end of the world.
There are an endless number of other sites where an endless number of other topics can be discussed. Does that mean that none of them are suitable for discussion here?

  • 12.17.2012 12:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Der Todesengel
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Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
I'm sure there is an "ATF.net" or some other related forum where you discuss gun control to your hearts content.

I prefer to talk about games on a gaming site. Not politics or the end of the world.
There are an endless number of other sites where an endless number of other topics can be discussed. Does that mean that none of them are suitable for discussion here?


I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that if our Hosts don't want us discussing certain topics on their forums, who are we to question or argue?

  • 12.17.2012 1:00 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx

Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
I'm sure there is an "ATF.net" or some other related forum where you discuss gun control to your hearts content.

I prefer to talk about games on a gaming site. Not politics or the end of the world.
There are an endless number of other sites where an endless number of other topics can be discussed. Does that mean that none of them are suitable for discussion here?


I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that if our Hosts don't want us discussing certain topics on their forums, who are we to question or argue?
DeeJ said nothing about guns in his post. The only person who's been an authority on the subject is Foman, and Forum Ninjas can't outlaw nor approve topics.

  • 12.17.2012 1:02 PM PDT

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
I'm sure there is an "ATF.net" or some other related forum where you discuss gun control to your hearts content.

I prefer to talk about games on a gaming site. Not politics or the end of the world.
There are an endless number of other sites where an endless number of other topics can be discussed. Does that mean that none of them are suitable for discussion here?


I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that if our Hosts don't want us discussing certain topics on their forums, who are we to question or argue?
If you are directing your question at me, I wasn't questioning or arguing the policy at all... I'm simply looking for clarification.

  • 12.17.2012 1:02 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Big Black Bear
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
How on earth could you think otherwise?
Because I've never seen a gun control discussion make any mention of political parties or candidates...?
Someone has to mention a party or candidate to make it political? That's a loophole big enough to drive a Death Star through.

Posted by: Big Black Bear
. . . speed limits and municipal noise laws. Are they political?
Depends on the context. If there were a referendum or an ongoing public debate (much like the currently-ongoing public debate re: gun control) about either at the time of the discussion, then I'd say yes, they are.

  • 12.17.2012 1:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I don't know in what universe people think that "political discussion" only involves discussions of "Republicans vs. Democrats." But it isn't this one. As you can see in just about any dictionary on the planet, political discussion is the discussion of the legislative and executive processes used to govern, not the discussion of "political parties + abortion."

This is not a change to the rules; this has been how we have moderated the Flood for years. If you have seen political threads that lasted for a while, it was because no moderator happened to notice, not because they "used to be allowed."

Discussion of potential and/or proposed changes to the gun control laws is unquestionably political discussion. This is a black-and-white issue with no gray area, and threads of this nature will be locked, just as are any other threads discussing proposed or potential changes to existing laws.

And for the hyperbolists: yes, that includes speed limit laws.

[Edited on 12.17.2012 1:06 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2012 1:05 PM PDT