Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?
  • Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?
Subject: What constitiutes a political discussion?

@trueunderdog

Chapter

Narwhallace Smithington: Gone, but not forgotten. Never approve of anything lil guy. <3
Furious George: The new -blam!-

Double-Z, I'm impressed at how quickly your opinion of The Flood has changed. Very convenient that it was at a time to fit the point you're trying to make. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you've come to appreciate (and hopefully enjoy) The Off-Topic Forum; hopefully off-topic discussion will continue to be something you value on Bungie.net :)

[Edited on 12.19.2012 7:24 PM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 7:22 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Posted by: SonicJohn
Hey, DeeJ? I'm all for sarcastic point-across-getting remarks and quips on this site, but can you please not joke about self-harm?

I expect that from stress-filled adolescants in the Flood. Not from the Assistant to the Community Manager at Bungie.

:O

OT: Anything that can be directly related to politics.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 7:55 PM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 7:49 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: True Underdog
Double-Z, I'm impressed at how quickly your opinion of The Flood has changed. Very convenient that it was at a time to fit the point you're trying to make. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you've come to appreciate (and hopefully enjoy) The Off-Topic Forum; hopefully off-topic discussion will continue to be something you value on Bungie.net :)
"Lol you such a brick"
"Oh you pancake, you"

Pick one. :P

I've been saying that The Flood isn't as bad as I used to think it was for a while now. I still believe it partially deserves the reputation it gets because even though that vocal minority is a minority, they are incredibly vocal, thus polluting the environment that is The Flood and overshadowing the 90% of not-so-bad posters on there.

  • 12.19.2012 7:57 PM PDT

@trueunderdog

Chapter

Narwhallace Smithington: Gone, but not forgotten. Never approve of anything lil guy. <3
Furious George: The new -blam!-

I was being sincere, double flippy floppy. :P

  • 12.19.2012 8:30 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: True Underdog
I was being sincere, double flippy floppy. :P
The inner machinations of your mind are an enigma (to me).

  • 12.19.2012 8:43 PM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"

If one understands the definition of "politics," it should not be hard to figure out.

Given that political discussion is against the rules, I'm surprised that that rule is not enforced more strictly, especially given how zealously the "no religious discussion" clause seems to be upheld.

[Edited on 12.20.2012 1:55 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2012 1:51 AM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]


Posted by: DeeJ
I will gladly concede that my self-harm reference was in poor taste. That said, chew on this: If you found that upsetting, how then would you respond to an open door policy on political vitriol on Bungie.net?
I'm sorry, but the two things should not be compared. I wasn't upset because it was simply in poor taste, but it was because I know for a fact that what you said could trigger someone with those sorts of ill tendancies to have an episode; they may have agreed with you. It was worse than poor taste. It was sickening. This is also a response to Tyrant. It's not childish to be wary of others' wellbeing. If it is, then I'm a fetus.

As for being on-topic, cruelty in any form should never be accepted or endured. I certainly agree that political opposing-fence--I hasten to call them--debates on this site are certainly without worth nor merit. What it essentially comes down to are a bunch of kids echoing their parents with no personal input, with one or two informed individuals being shunned by the tsunami of ignorance.

With that said, I think there is a lot of worth in reading differing perspectives on such matters; helps you grow, strengthen your opinions and help you become a better knowledgable person in that regard. So if you're interested in discussing that sort of thing, there are plenty groups on Bnet dedicated to the topics at hand.

I think it works best in groups as opposed to the public forum, purely because going to the group means you have full intentions of knowing what the level of discussion will be focussed on; you've actively seeked it. In the public, it's just thrown at you, and usually with a heavy opinion in the title. There's a lot of bias when it comes to this sort of thing, usually. Within groups, I'm confident it's moderated to the point at which: if you're an ignorant dumbass with nothing further to say than "Obama sux" then out you go, boyo.

  • 12.20.2012 2:03 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: DeeJ
I will gladly concede that my self-harm reference was in poor taste. That said, chew on this: If you found that upsetting, how then would you respond to an open door policy on political vitriol on Bungie.net?
I'm sorry, but the two things should not be compared. I wasn't upset because it was simply in poor taste, but it was because I know for a fact that what you said could trigger someone with those sorts of ill tendancies to have an episode; they may have agreed with you. It was worse than poor taste. It was sickening. This is also a response to Tyrant. It's not childish to be wary of others' wellbeing. If it is, then I'm a fetus.
It is a sensitive topic. Personally I can get sparked off with flippant use of 'getting depressed'. It feeds the problem of people seeing the condition as emotional, rather than comparable to a 'real illness'. In reality it's more of a functional deficiency, not just something that can be cured with positive thought or by others providing advice with their 'extensive life experience'. It's less obvious than joking about suicide, so I don't think an angry response is necessarily merited, but there are some areas (and self-harm is another), which should be avoided, when trying to express disdain or make a joke. DeeJ has already acknowledged the poor taste of his comment; understandably it was made without too much thought, so this post isn't a slight against him. This is just something I would like people to keep in mind.

  • 12.20.2012 4:59 AM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: SonicJohn
I know for a fact that what you said could trigger someone with those sorts of ill tendancies to have an episode; they may have agreed with you. It was worse than poor taste. It was sickening. This is also a response to Tyrant. It's not childish to be wary of others' wellbeing. If it is, then I'm a fetus.
You seem to have strong feelings about this which leads me to believe you have some kind of personal experience in this realm, so I'll try to tread lightly, but IMO if anyone is in such a state that a mere reference (not even directed at them) to suicide might cause them to act it out, they really shouldn't be reading public Internet forums. To carry this logic further, should the news also then stop reporting on suicides? What if one of these individuals stumbles across a news story about suicide?

If you're truly concerned about others' well-being, censoring one person on this forum isn't really doing much in that regard, given the rest of the Internet . . .

Posted by: Tom T
It is a sensitive topic. Personally I can get sparked off with flippant use of 'getting depressed'. It feeds the problem of people seeing the condition as emotional, rather than comparable to a 'real illness'.
This is simply your mistake, as that term doesn't just refer to the mental illness, but also generally to prolonged feelings of dejection and despondency, which of course may not necessarily be related to a mental health problem. One can feel depressed without suffering the affliction of depression.


And speaking of depressing, that's exactly what political threads in the Flood are. As SJ stated, those discussions fare best in groups where you can generally find a somewhat more refined group of people with a larger vested interest in treating one another and each other's views with respect. And as at least one such group exists on B.net for that purpose, with open membership and thus accessible to all, there's really no reason to allow it on the mains.

[Edited on 12.20.2012 7:02 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2012 7:01 AM PDT


Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: DeeJ
I will gladly concede that my self-harm reference was in poor taste. That said, chew on this: If you found that upsetting, how then would you respond to an open door policy on political vitriol on Bungie.net?
I'm sorry, but the two things should not be compared. I wasn't upset because it was simply in poor taste, but it was because I know for a fact that what you said could trigger someone with those sorts of ill tendancies to have an episode; they may have agreed with you. It was worse than poor taste. It was sickening. This is also a response to Tyrant. It's not childish to be wary of others' wellbeing. If it is, then I'm a fetus.

As for being on-topic, cruelty in any form should never be accepted or endured. I certainly agree that political opposing-fence--I hasten to call them--debates on this site are certainly without worth nor merit. What it essentially comes down to are a bunch of kids echoing their parents with no personal input, with one or two informed individuals being shunned by the tsunami of ignorance.

With that said, I think there is a lot of worth in reading differing perspectives on such matters; helps you grow, strengthen your opinions and help you become a better knowledgable person in that regard. So if you're interested in discussing that sort of thing, there are plenty groups on Bnet dedicated to the topics at hand.

I think it works best in groups as opposed to the public forum, purely because going to the group means you have full intentions of knowing what the level of discussion will be focussed on; you've actively seeked it. In the public, it's just thrown at you, and usually with a heavy opinion in the title. There's a lot of bias when it comes to this sort of thing, usually. Within groups, I'm confident it's moderated to the point at which: if you're an ignorant dumbass with nothing further to say than "Obama sux" then out you go, boyo.


Lmao

You're a fetus

  • 12.20.2012 7:18 AM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]


Posted by: MrBojangles136
Posted by: SonicJohn

Lmao

You're a fetus
Okay, you look after (/date/love/engage) a girl with bipolar for 2 years and see if you come out of it without any sensitivity to spotting or purposefully avoiding danger areas.

Perhaps I'm too sensitive to that topic. I just couldn't continue browsing without letting DeeJ know that what he said wasn't okay.

You can't simply said "they shouldn't be browsing the internet", because the (un)funny thing is that clinical depression is rife within a large majority percentage of first world countries. It's unavoidable, sadly.

I wasn't intending on censoring just "a person"; I simply wanting DeeJ, the man who currently represents Bungie as a front-man, to be more aware of who he's representing Bungie to, especially with the amount of people that will cling to that golden text, which wouldn't help someone who wasn't in the best mindset (here's the scary part: they VERY likely may not be cognitively aware that they are so).

I apologize for my strong metaphorically-political stance on this subject matter. Like I said, I have a lot of experience based on this topic, knowing what warnings signs to look out for.

Thanks for apologizing, DeeJ. I appreciate it nonetheless.

  • 12.20.2012 7:43 AM PDT

I was engaged to girl who was an unstable psycho at times.

I've been diagnosed with depressions.

Could not care less about the stuff you're crying about

  • 12.20.2012 7:46 AM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]


Posted by: MrBojangles136
I was engaged to girl who was an unstable psycho at times.

I've been diagnosed with depressions.

Could not care less about the stuff you're crying about
Sounds like you're apathetic about life. Sorry to hear that. Must suck. I've been depressed too, but unlike you, apparently, I want to enjoy life and treat people kindly, so I got out of it.

  • 12.20.2012 7:49 AM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Just to clarify my point:

Posted by: SonicJohn
You can't simply said "they shouldn't be browsing the internet", because the (un)funny thing is that clinical depression is rife within a large majority percentage of first world countries. It's unavoidable, sadly.
I didn't suggest that all clinically depressed individuals stay off the Internet (were that the case, I very likely shouldn't be here myself) -- rather, only those who can't read about suicide without a significant risk of actually committing suicide themselves. Not all clinically depressed individuals suffer from such an extreme case, as I'm sure you know.


Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: MrBojangles136
I was engaged to girl who was an unstable psycho at times.

I've been diagnosed with depressions.

Could not care less about the stuff you're crying about
Sounds like you're apathetic about life. Sorry to hear that. Must suck. I've been depressed too, but unlike you, apparently, I want to enjoy life and treat people kindly, so I got out of it.
Telling a depressed individual that his life must suck?

Um . . .

[Edited on 12.20.2012 8:05 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2012 8:01 AM PDT

Known by some, but not by all.
Soffish: Do not eat!
TWP Assistant Director.

It's funny. There are people here that think by having a discussion about political discussion is having a political discussion. The politics of what we are allowed to discuss. Rules are not politics. Politics are not rules.

~Delta

  • 12.20.2012 8:22 AM PDT

A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a Danish.

What constitutes a political discussion.

Lets just ask Google and be done:
Of or relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

Any talks about gun control, which is by definition relating to government, are indeed inherently political in nature.

Period.

That was easy.

  • 12.20.2012 8:28 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Tom T
It is a sensitive topic. Personally I can get sparked off with flippant use of 'getting depressed'. It feeds the problem of people seeing the condition as emotional, rather than comparable to a 'real illness'.
This is simply your mistake, as that term doesn't just refer to the mental illness, but also generally to prolonged feelings of dejection and despondency, which of course may not necessarily be related to a mental health problem. One can feel depressed without suffering the affliction of depression.
You're not wrong, and I would definitely admit to overreaction on my part. Still, I think it better people are cautious around sensitive areas, and are aware of the danger of [mis]interpretation. The politics analogy/comparison DeeJ used ITT is an apt one, there are some areas/terms where people are prone to emotional outburst, rather than exercising their better judgment.

As for the discussion in this thread... I don't see an issue with the pros and cons of policy being debated. I think problems only really occur when people begin labelling and namedropping with X party, Y leaning and Z individual. This leads posters to jump to the defence of something using the only resource they have, their own anger. Threads that can avoid this (such as the examples Nerd Boi gave) can continue for a lengthy period with little problem, and invite a more theoretical discussion not definable as political. A mod might have to step in occasionally and ban those that force the thread in an undesirable direction, but the thread overall can remain intact.

So really, it is a case of understanding that nothing need be inherently political, but also a case of mods deciding whether a posted thread can avoid becoming directly political, without too much intervention on their part. This is the point where I get to talk about importance of judgment, and express gladness that the rules allow for ambiguity. Well, it makes some sense in my head, anyway.

[Edited on 12.20.2012 8:49 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2012 8:48 AM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Tom T
You're not wrong, and I would definitely admit to overreaction on my part. Still, I think it better people are cautious around sensitive areas, and are aware of the danger of [mis]interpretation. The politics analogy/comparison DeeJ used ITT is an apt one, there are some areas/terms where people are prone to emotional outburst, rather than exercising their better judgment.
Agreed that caution is a good thing; but I also think we should be mindful that an excess of caution will leave this site dreadfully boring and dull. A balance must be struck, and I suppose we simply disagree on where exactly to find that balance.

Though I think we do agree that for politics, the best balance is the existing one.

  • 12.20.2012 9:18 AM PDT