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  • Subject: "Strong/powerful" female characters suck.
Subject: "Strong/powerful" female characters suck.

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

I am going to agree with you, OP. "Strong" female leads just seem to be shallow, without much depth. Perhaps it is only a factor that having a strong female character is a rather new development, and it may just take time for writers to get better at depicting and delivering these characters to their audiences.

There are strong females out there. I've never seen nBSG, but Firefly had many characters I'd consider to be strong femals (e.g. Zoe, Saffron, Inara). What I like about these characters is that they are independent and colorful, but aren't stripped of their femininity, which often seems to be what writers think needs to happen to have a strong female character.

  • 12.19.2012 6:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Anto91
Seggi, men and women are not equal. Look at male animals and female animals. They have different roles and different responsabilities: equality is something created by modern society.


That they have different roles and responsibilities says absolutely nothing about the inherent qualities of men and women.
So you're saying that men and women have equal qualities? That would be naive to say the least.
I'm not saying men are better or women are better, I'm just saying that we are very much different and actually far from equal in many things.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 6:23 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 6:20 AM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Oh, yeah, Joss Whedon is renowned for his strong female characters.

Posted by: Anto91
So you're saying that men and women have equal qualities? That would be naive to say the least.


Mostly, yeah. I mean, there are a few big differences, like the fact that women can get pregnant and the consequences of that, but men and women are mostly the same, underneath all the social constructs.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 6:22 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 6:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.

Posted by: Seggi31
Oh, yeah, Joss Whedon is renowned for his strong female characters.

Posted by: Anto91
So you're saying that men and women have equal qualities? That would be naive to say the least.


Mostly, yeah. I mean, there are a few big differences, like the fact that women can get pregnant and the consequences of that, but men and women are mostly the same, underneath all the social constructs.
I'm not talking about pysical differences. Are you implying that men behave the same way as women towards their offspring, just to give an example? It's no social construct, it's just the way nature is.

  • 12.19.2012 6:26 AM PDT

hmm

Yeah I agree, all female heroes are just pissed off feminists or have overly generic traits.

  • 12.19.2012 6:36 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Anto91
Posted by: Seggi31
Oh, yeah, Joss Whedon is renowned for his strong female characters.

Posted by: Anto91
So you're saying that men and women have equal qualities? That would be naive to say the least.


Mostly, yeah. I mean, there are a few big differences, like the fact that women can get pregnant and the consequences of that, but men and women are mostly the same, underneath all the social constructs.
I'm not talking about pysical differences. Are you implying that men behave the same way as women towards their offspring, just to give an example? It's no social construct, it's just the way nature is.


I'm going to have to side with Seggi. There are differences, both physical and social, but for the most part both genders are pretty similar. Yes, women often have a strong connection to their offspring, but I've seen women who are garbage mothers, but their children have great dads, so that nullifies the point.

Men and women are like trucks and sports cars. They're all just metal and internal combustion. Trucks can just haul a lot more, while sports cars are fun to get inside of and just ride.

  • 12.19.2012 6:40 AM PDT

The Song Of Nephilim

Xenoblade <3

KOS-MOS wants a word with you.

  • 12.19.2012 6:43 AM PDT

What's Up.

I'm extremely surprised that no one has mentioned Lisbeth Salander from the Millenium Series (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo books). She is definitely a strong female character and is a bad ass to the extreme. The ending to the second book is enough to prove this.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 6:48 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 6:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: Anto91
I'm not talking about pysical differences. Are you implying that men behave the same way as women towards their offspring, just to give an example? It's no social construct, it's just the way nature is.


No, I was implying (and am now saying) that men and women behave differently primarily because of social constructs.

  • 12.19.2012 6:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Anto91
Posted by: Seggi31
Oh, yeah, Joss Whedon is renowned for his strong female characters.

Posted by: Anto91
So you're saying that men and women have equal qualities? That would be naive to say the least.


Mostly, yeah. I mean, there are a few big differences, like the fact that women can get pregnant and the consequences of that, but men and women are mostly the same, underneath all the social constructs.
I'm not talking about pysical differences. Are you implying that men behave the same way as women towards their offspring, just to give an example? It's no social construct, it's just the way nature is.


I'm going to have to side with Seggi. There are differences, both physical and social, but for the most part both genders are pretty similar. Yes, women often have a strong connection to their offspring, but I've seen women who are garbage mothers, but their children have great dads, so that nullifies the point.
That's the exception that proves the rule. But really, don't look into particular cases. You can't deny how the average woman and the average man are inherently different.
Posted by: prometheus25
Men and women are like trucks and sports cars. They're all just metal and internal combustion. Trucks can just haul a lot more, while sports cars are fun to get inside of and just ride.
Worst pro-equality example ever

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Anto91
I'm not talking about pysical differences. Are you implying that men behave the same way as women towards their offspring, just to give an example? It's no social construct, it's just the way nature is.


No, I was implying (and am now saying) that men and women behave differently primarily because of social constructs.
And how exactly did these social constructs influence wild animals? Because humans are not the only ones who have differences between genders.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 7:05 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 7:03 AM PDT
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Over the top male characters are just as bad, though I agree that there are far less of them. I will say that more thought tends to go into male characters overall, not saying there aren't good female characters, just less of them.

  • 12.19.2012 7:11 AM PDT

Theres a way to do it right... And a way to do it wrong.

But yes, most devs do it wrong. There is like a sense of stereo-typicalness when they do it wrong..

  • 12.19.2012 7:12 AM PDT


Posted by: finalknight92
Posted by: Sh1n1ng Wolf
What about Samus in Othe- Oh, wait.


Other? Other what?

There was MP1, 2, 3 the DS titles and that is all for recent Metroid stuff.


Metroid Other M, I haven't played it but I heard it sucked.

  • 12.19.2012 7:23 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Anto91
That's the exception that proves the rule. But really, don't look into particular cases. You can't deny how the average woman and the average man are inherently different.


Yes I can, because that's what I've been doing. Men and women follow extremely similar physiological and psychological development from the start. Do social conventions and experiences bend these from each other? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are more different than the same.

  • 12.19.2012 8:08 AM PDT
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Nope, there's nothing hotter than a sexy bad ass female.

  • 12.19.2012 8:11 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

There are plenty of counterexamples of that. Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connors, Black Widow, Zoe in Firefly, Alice, Samus Aran, Lara Croft, just to name a few.

  • 12.19.2012 8:14 AM PDT

If good looks could kill, I'd be a weapon of mass destruction.

Q: Hey, what did Hitler say to the black jew?
A: Get to the back of the oven.

How about Samus Aran?

Strong, silent, but not overly feministic. Just does her duty to save the universe (and as a bounty hunter, knows that the rules that common military and police forces are subject to follow can become limiting).

That's inspiring.

[Edited on 12.19.2012 8:28 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 8:19 AM PDT

That actually makes perfect sense. I'm trying to think of female characters with morals but, none come to mind immediately...

  • 12.19.2012 8:21 AM PDT

Platinum FC: 5457 6570 9037
White FC: 0091 1037 4647

I'm personally upset Lightning Farron hasn't been mentioned.
Sure FFXIII might not have been the most well received game in the series, but Lightning's a badass who, in all honesty, did have a lot more going for her than just her fighting capabilities. In FFXIII she does everything to save her sister, not to mention becoming a mother-like figure to whiny, annoying Hope and managed to turn him into a semi likable character. In XIII-2 she's the defender of the Goddess Etro. Lightning's awesome.

  • 12.19.2012 8:28 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Puma Knight
So you are not actually saying that strong/b.a. female are terrible, but the people suck at making well developed female characters.

I think this is the real issue behind "strong" female characters. Many of them are just handled poorly.

  • 12.19.2012 8:30 AM PDT

He threw down a glove you made the mistake
Of picking it up now you're gone
The choosing of guns or fighting with swords
The choice of weapons is done
He'll tear you apart as soon as you start
You know you don't have a chance.

You're talking about superhero morals and don't list Superman?

  • 12.19.2012 8:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Anto91
That's the exception that proves the rule. But really, don't look into particular cases. You can't deny how the average woman and the average man are inherently different.


Yes I can, because that's what I've been doing. Men and women follow extremely similar physiological and psychological development from the start. Do social conventions and experiences bend these from each other? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are more different than the same.

So why don't I see many boys playing with barbies or girls playing with action men (again, don't cherry pick unusual cases, we are talking about the average human)?
We even have with different chromosomes.

  • 12.19.2012 8:33 AM PDT

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Badass Females do not exist, unless they are in the military

i can't think of any names, but there have been pretty good feme fighters

  • 12.19.2012 8:37 AM PDT

Check out my youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/ultratog1028

Bella is a terrible female character. How dare you use her as an example as a "strong female character" she has no character, has no conflict, and shows no strength.

  • 12.19.2012 8:44 AM PDT
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3rd edition. Now with more grunt.

TFS 4 lyfe

Brienne of Tarth is a boss.

  • 12.19.2012 8:49 AM PDT