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This topic has moved here: Subject: "Strong/powerful" female characters suck.
  • Subject: "Strong/powerful" female characters suck.
Subject: "Strong/powerful" female characters suck.


Posted by: Puma Knight
So you are not actually saying that strong/b.a. female are terrible, but the people suck at making well developed female characters.

I actually have to disagree with the Brave example. She fights against a male dominant culture and tries to give women greater rights. Well, actually give better rights to people in general, but you get my point. She wasn't the greatest of all characters, but she wasn't bad either.


That's what bothers me about her character, personally. If you're trying to write a strong female lead, writers tend to default to the "females can do whatever men can do" type of character.

The story becomes about them being a strong female character, as if it's a surprise or unusual circumstance, rather than the female lead just dynamically being strong through actions and personality. Ellen Ripley was strong because she fought the Alien and won, she didn't need a feminist moral to make her that.

  • 12.19.2012 8:49 AM PDT

Platinum FC: 5457 6570 9037
White FC: 0091 1037 4647

Oh! And another few listings of badass female characters, all from the same series.
Riza Hawkeye, Izumi Curtis, and Olivier Armstrong from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. If you've seen the show, I don't think I even need to give an explanation.

  • 12.19.2012 8:53 AM PDT

The Song Of Nephilim

Xenoblade <3


Posted by: UnHolyHelper
I'm personally upset Lightning Farron hasn't been mentioned.
Sure FFXIII might not have been the most well received game in the series, but Lightning's a badass who, in all honesty, did have a lot more going for her than just her fighting capabilities. In FFXIII she does everything to save her sister, not to mention becoming a mother-like figure to whiny, annoying Hope and managed to turn him into a semi likable character. In XIII-2 she's the defender of the Goddess Etro. Lightning's awesome.


I was going to mention her, but KOS-MOS easily takes the cake. I love Lightning, but her new look is kinda disappointing.

  • 12.19.2012 8:55 AM PDT

Check out my youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/ultratog1028


Posted by: UnHolyHelper
Oh! And another few listings of badass female characters, all from the same series.
Riza Hawkeye, Izumi Curtis, and Olivier Armstrong from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. If you've seen the show, I don't think I even need to give an explanation.
the females in that show have more balls then the males usually.

  • 12.19.2012 8:56 AM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

Lyra Belacqua, later renamed Lyra Silvertongue, from Philip Pullman's epic trilogy His Dark Materials. Oh, and Mrs Coulter, same series.

/thread

[Edited on 12.19.2012 9:00 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 8:57 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Yeah she was a horrible character.
Posted by: annoyinginge
Lyra Belacqua, later renamed Lyra Silvertongue, from Philip Pullman's epic trilogy His Dark Materials. Oh, and Mrs Coulter, same series.

/thread

  • 12.19.2012 9:06 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Anto91
Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Anto91
That's the exception that proves the rule. But really, don't look into particular cases. You can't deny how the average woman and the average man are inherently different.


Yes I can, because that's what I've been doing. Men and women follow extremely similar physiological and psychological development from the start. Do social conventions and experiences bend these from each other? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are more different than the same.

So why don't I see many boys playing with barbies or girls playing with action men (again, don't cherry pick unusual cases, we are talking about the average human)?
We even have with different chromosomes.


See emboldened section of my quoted post.

Please, PLEASE tell me you are not judging what a female is or what a male consists of by the toys they play with. That is so incredibly shallow, narrow-minded, and demonstrably incorrect. You're comparing the color of toys they play with. That is, ultimately, the only difference in the example you provided. Barbies are pink and bright colored while action figures are darker toned typically. Both cases involve plastic, jointed miniatures of human beings. You are being incredibly superficial and are in for a world of eye-opening realization. I am not saying that females and males are the same. They aren't. What I am saying is that they are more similar than different. Yes, they have different chromosomes. Actually, no. They have A different chromosome. Or really, half of one, being that we both share one complete 23rd half, and the other half differs.

We aren't comparing triangles and squares. We're comparing thousand-sided shapes with thousand-and-one-sided shapes. That extra side does not make a whole hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

  • 12.19.2012 9:14 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

My 50 alt
Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Anto91
Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Anto91
That's the exception that proves the rule. But really, don't look into particular cases. You can't deny how the average woman and the average man are inherently different.


Yes I can, because that's what I've been doing. Men and women follow extremely similar physiological and psychological development from the start. Do social conventions and experiences bend these from each other? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are more different than the same.

So why don't I see many boys playing with barbies or girls playing with action men (again, don't cherry pick unusual cases, we are talking about the average human)?
We even have with different chromosomes.


See emboldened section of my quoted post.

Please, PLEASE tell me you are not judging what a female is or what a male consists of by the toys they play with. That is so incredibly shallow, narrow-minded, and demonstrably incorrect. You're comparing the color of toys they play with. That is, ultimately, the only difference in the example you provided. Barbies are pink and bright colored while action figures are darker toned typically. Both cases involve plastic, jointed miniatures of human beings. You are being incredibly superficial and are in for a world of eye-opening realization. I am not saying that females and males are the same. They aren't. What I am saying is that they are more similar than different. Yes, they have different chromosomes. Actually, no. They have A different chromosome. Or really, half of one, being that we both share one complete 23rd half, and the other half differs.

We aren't comparing triangles and squares. We're comparing thousand-sided shapes with thousand-and-one-sided shapes. That extra side does not make a whole hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.
I used that example because I'm at work and I can't really put 100% of my time into writing essays for b.net arguments. I still don't see how can you say men and women are identical and equal on everything, but I don't really care anymore at this point.

  • 12.19.2012 9:29 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

She is very powerful in her story. Deal with it.
Posted by: ultratog1028
Bella is a terrible female character. How dare you use her as an example as a "strong female character" she has no character, has no conflict, and shows no strength.

  • 12.19.2012 9:34 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: BestSpartan117
She is very powerful in her story. Deal with it.
Posted by: ultratog1028
Bella is a terrible female character. How dare you use her as an example as a "strong female character" she has no character, has no conflict, and shows no strength.

I don't think he was talking about her physical powers, but more her actual character which was terribly weak.

  • 12.19.2012 9:36 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

I was talking about powers however. She is a bad character,I never implied she was good, that was the point of the argument.
Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: BestSpartan117
She is very powerful in her story. Deal with it.
Posted by: ultratog1028
Bella is a terrible female character. How dare you use her as an example as a "strong female character" she has no character, has no conflict, and shows no strength.

I don't think he was talking about her physical powers, but more her actual character which was terribly weak.


[Edited on 12.19.2012 9:38 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 9:37 AM PDT

-blam!- envy

  • 12.19.2012 9:41 AM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

Posted by: BestSpartan117
Posted by: annoyinginge
Lyra Belacqua, later renamed Lyra Silvertongue, from Philip Pullman's epic trilogy His Dark Materials. Oh, and Mrs Coulter, same series.

/thread

Yeah she was a horrible character.

Do you even read?

  • 12.19.2012 9:42 AM PDT

The Song Of Nephilim

Xenoblade <3

Another mention would be The Boss from MGS. Seriously, she died for her country.

  • 12.19.2012 9:42 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

This is subjective but I fail to see the anti Lucy pevensie with lies as a good role model.

Pinkie pie is a better role model...
Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: BestSpartan117
Posted by: annoyinginge
Lyra Belacqua, later renamed Lyra Silvertongue, from Philip Pullman's epic trilogy His Dark Materials. Oh, and Mrs Coulter, same series.

/thread

Yeah she was a horrible character.

Do you even read?


[Edited on 12.19.2012 9:48 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 9:43 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

My 50 alt
Posted by: KIBOSH
They should just make an HLG playlist then you guys can hide against each other and see how much fun it is.

Posted by: Nephilim713
Another mention would be The Boss from MGS. Seriously, she died for her country.

Posted by: Nephilim713
Another mention would be The Boss from MGS. Seriously, she died for her country.

Posted by: Nephilim713
Another mention would be The Boss from MGS. Seriously, she died for her country.

Posted by: Nephilim713
Another mention would be The Boss from MGS. Seriously, she died for her country.

  • 12.19.2012 9:46 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
Not really. Your mom is over quite enough to make my fears mute.
Posted by: colbyrules8
Posted by: Duardo
Being alone.
You're a mod, you should be used to that.

Eh, maybe you can't like them in major movies but I love me strong female leads within anime.

  • 12.19.2012 9:47 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Anto91
I still don't see how can you say men and women are identical and equal on everything, but I don't really care anymore at this point.


Never did I say identical and equal. Equal, yes, of course, but what I said was more similar than different to the point of negligence.

  • 12.19.2012 10:35 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Who do you recomend?
Posted by: colbyrules8
Eh, maybe you can't like them in major movies but I love me strong female leads within anime.


[Edited on 12.19.2012 11:02 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2012 11:01 AM PDT

Asha Greyjoy
Arya Stark

  • 12.19.2012 11:13 AM PDT

The acceptance of defeat is an invitation for its repetition.

Liara.

Come at me.

  • 12.19.2012 11:14 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Related to to tony stark?
Posted by: Hayabusawarrior
Asha Greyjoy
Arya Stark

  • 12.19.2012 11:20 AM PDT

Don't LOL if you aren't L'inOL.

Halo: Reach
Halo 3
Halo ODST

I agree. It's not like you're being sexist either, even though the title was slightly misleading. It's the writers fault.

  • 12.19.2012 11:27 AM PDT

I find that there are far too many hardcore kick ass female characters these days. It's almost a cliche.

  • 12.19.2012 11:30 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?



Completely agreed. The movie was basically trwing out our faves how an independendant woman she was.

I wonder Why puxar fired the movie's female director.
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Puma Knight
So you are not actually saying that strong/b.a. female are terrible, but the people suck at making well developed female characters.

I actually have to disagree with the Brave example. She fights against a male dominant culture and tries to give women greater rights. Well, actually give better rights to people in general, but you get my point. She wasn't the greatest of all characters, but she wasn't bad either.


That's what bothers me about her character, personally. If you're trying to write a strong female lead, writers tend to default to the "females can do whatever men can do" type of character.

The story becomes about them being a strong female character, as if it's a surprise or unusual circumstance, rather than the female lead just dynamically being strong through actions and personality. Ellen Ripley was strong because she fought the Alien and won, she didn't need a feminist moral to make her that.

  • 12.19.2012 11:48 AM PDT